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Unread 10-05-2012, 04:04 PM   #1280 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination View Post
Wrong.

First of all, you're talking about theism. What about a Deist who doesn't believe God interacts with his creation? So it's not by definition. Secondly, if we were talking about a theistic conception of God and he did interact with his creation through miracles, that would be a momentary suspension of the laws of nature, which a God that existed outside of space and time could do, and would not be measurable by science because the circumstances of that miracle wouldn't be there afterwards.
But there is no reason to believe in Deism after having a full understanding of evolutionary biology, physics, and astronomy. I was a Deist once too, before understanding these things.



Quote:
I think my above reply shows why the Gould quote still applies. To say that he and all of the other biologists, physicists and scientists of various stripes are just flat out wrong is a little arrogant, a misunderstanding, or an oversimplification. If extremely smart people in different fields of science disagree with each other over the implication of these ideas, then I think it's clear the issue isn't nearly as black and white as you like to say it is.
Isn't it the exact same thing to say that for you to say the all the other biologists, physicists and scientists are wrong about atheism? Sorry, but to me, one holds much more weight than the other for people who can separate their emotions from what they believe in.


Quote:
"It is difficult to discuss the beginning of the universe without mentioning the concept of God. My work on the origin of the universe is on the borderline between science and religion, but I try to stay on the scientific side of the border. It is quite possible that God acts in ways that cannot be described by scientific laws."

-Stephen Hawkings
Have you even read A Brief History of Time? I find it hard to believe you have/are a big fan of Hawking's work, which I most definitely am. It is Hawking, by the way -- not to be a pedant, but I'm sure you'd question my education on a matter if I said "Stephen Jay Goulds" too.

If you haven't read it, I recommend you do (and read a lot of other books on astrophysics and cosmology as well) to get that quote in further context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hawking
God may exist, but science can explain the universe without the need for a creator...Science is increasingly answering questions that used to be the province of religion/ The scientific account is complete. Theology is unnecessary.
More: Stephen Hawking: ‘There is no heaven’ - Under God - The Washington Post


We can play this game all day. My opinion? When ABHOT was written, being a popular public figure, he couldnt' flat out say he was an atheist because it would damage his public image. Same with Carl Sagan, same with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. If you believe in the possibility of a god (which I do, but am waiting for more evidence), but you don't pray to one, believe in one actively, and go to church etc -- you are an atheist whether or not you want the label or not. People who don't eat any meat and don't want a label are still fucking vegetarians, man.

Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing.

― Terence McKenna
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