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Unread 01-10-2016, 01:38 PM   #49 (permalink)
Dent
Lost in Hilbert Spice
 
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Frequency as in time? How many bliss points outweigh mega suffering?
Is Hedonic valence better for you than tone? negative/positive valence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_(psychology)
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For example, what is your stance on zoos?
Abolitish
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factory farming?
Abolish (almost completely vegan 2 years now)
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On keeping intelligent beings in small cages, indoors, away from the grass, the sky, fresh air, trees, injecting them with industrial chemicals?
Tone Is what matters, not whatever is in the environment that contributes to tone, grass sky and fresh air would be good for most though.
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On enslaving mammals from birth
Abolish (talking to some anti-natalists who think all birth is slavery and all breeding is immoral, I think humans need to be around to make paradise instead)

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True empathy for the suffering of animals goes a bit beyond the Hedonic tone and goes more into the realm of radical, illegal activism.
Strongly disagree
Dunno about empathy but I don’t think the most effective way of helping non humans, present and future,involves anything illegal. Most animal activism is probably net negative.
and if it does let me know what illegal activities may save the world

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some form of predation to acquire nutrients at a cellular level to the "animal realm".
I’m not an animist and I don’t call that predation, neither does the dictionary. I doubt the sun suffers much when the nasty plants use it's photons in the ATP chain either
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“ fact of the matter”
Come now

Q's for blonde:

1. Do you think the production/consumption of mussels involves more or less suffering than grain/some types of plants? (thinking mice being cut up in shredders etc.. not plant sentience)
2. is a future with free-living non humans as they are now a zoo to you? they'd need welfare and wouldn't be molested/harmed, but wouldn't be boosted to mega intelligence/rocket tech.
sometimes I think it would be easier to only have super smart beings so you don't have a power imbalance (prolly still would)


hey blonde i'm back to edit some more, hope you read
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Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde View Post
I can cite many examples of carnivorous plants in nature if you want.
Cite all you want, the existence of predation doesn't mean that it's required. It's evolution in the first place needs an explanation.
so does.. and back to what matters (predation could probably feel good)
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Originally Posted by DP
Of course, ratcheting up hedonic range and hedonic set-points isn't totally preference-neutral. If it were totally preference-neutral, then negative hedonic tone would not have evolved. But only social animals get depressed: low mood (and its accompanying behavioural suppression) would appear to be a genetic adaptation to group living in the ancestral environment of adaptation. The biotech revolution and the imminent reproductive revolution of designer babies changes the nature of selection pressure insofar as intelligent agents will shortly choose the genetic make-up of their offspring in anticipation of the likely behaviour and psychological consequences of their choices.

Last edited by Dent; 01-13-2016 at 08:30 PM.
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