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Old 07-08-2012, 03:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have my list of classes for the upcoming semester, which I think pretty much everyone takes (civil procedure, contracts, legal process, property, and torts (plus criminal law in the spring)). What happens after that? Will I still be taking variations of these classes as required courses or will I mainly be taking electives? I was looking at the elective classes, and there's like 150 to choose from.

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Old 07-08-2012, 10:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Your first year should be set for you. Some places the first year courses go over two semesters, like civ pro I and II, Contracts I and II, etc. I'm not sure how your place is going to do that. Mine did not and it was the only one that didn't at the time that I knew of. I recall my first year being Fall: Civ. Pro 4 hrs.; Torts 4 hrs.; Contracts 4 hrs; and Legal Practice I 3hrs. Legal Practice I was research and writing. Spring: Constitutional Law 4 hrs; Property 4 hrs; Criminal Law 3 hrs; and legal practice II --ADR shit.

We had a lot of required advanced courses. Professional Responsibility (ethics), Commercial Law (UCC paper and secured transactions), Evidence, Crim Procedure (really crim law/constitutional law part 2), Fed Income Tax, Wills & Trusts, Business Entities (corporations and partnerships), maybe another. Basically if it was on the bar, it was required. Except for Family Law and when I took the bar oil and gas was on it, but was being phased out for tax. So I took fucking tax for no reason. The rest were electives. I have no idea how many, if any, required advanced courses you will have where you are. But in my case, the elective got placed around the required courses. So some electives didn't happen that I'd have liked because of scheduling. I can nearly guarantee that not all of those courses in the catalogue will be offered while you are there. I ended up not taking electives I wanted to take because I needed something like Business Entities to graduate. It wasn't possible to take all of the required courses all in the second year cause it seems there was one section every semester and they were all offered at the same time. Then something like federal jurisdiction was offered once the entire time I was there. Texas Procedure was taught twice. I ended up taking classes I was absolutely not interested in at like, Environmental Law and Jewish Law, because those time slots of MWF at 8:30 and 10:30 had few options and it was lesser of evils. All because a required class my last semester had a weird ass 9:30 time slot and I had to get it.

I checked some of the degree requirements for McGeorge and few seemed bizarre. I get that you don't have too many required courses. That's cool. But jesus christ what's that deal with not being allowed to graduate if you take the bar early? It happens all the time. Suppose you get those 88 hours in five semesters by taking summer classes and higher numbers of credits after year one? Why do you have to go another semester full time in order to fucking graduate because of a residency requirement nobody else in the ABA has? That's fucking stupid. Almost every state will allow you to sit for the bar if you're with a certain number of hours. Mcgeorge won't let you graduate if you do that? Doesn't make any sense, you still have to graduate.

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Old 07-09-2012, 02:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have no idea what you're talking about regarding taking the bar early, nor can I see why anyone would ever want to attempt that. As far as I can tell, there's no benefit whatsoever. 99% of the advice I've gotten so far has been:

Kill it first year + Spend as much time as possible building contacts = Job

Edit: I may not have fully understood your answer because I've been drinking. I'll read it again tomorrow.

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Old 07-09-2012, 10:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Degree Requirements

4. Attendance in residence for six academic semesters in the Full-Time Division or eight academic semesters in the Part-Time Division (Fall and Spring Semesters). A minimum number of units must be taken for credit in each of those semesters to receive full residency credit for the semester in the Division in which the student is enrolled (Full-Time Division minimum, 12 units; Part-Time Division minimum, 8 units). Information regarding residency requirements upon a change of program from one Division to another or for a Part-Time Division accelerated program may be obtained from the Dean of Students' office.

A student who sits for a bar examination prior to completion of all degree requirements is ineligible to receive a J.D. degree under regulations of the University of the Pacific.

Pacific McGeorge may require a leave upon specified terms, terminate a student's enrollment, or decline to award a degree if the Administration determines that this is in the best interests of the law school or that a student is not qualified for admission to the legal profession because of factors other than academic standing. Determinations about academic standing are made in accordance with the Grading and Advancement Committee Rules, Regulations, and Procedures. Determinations about the occurrence of conduct described in the Code of Student Responsibility are made in accordance with the procedures of that Code. Copies of both documents are distributed to all students at the beginning of the academic year and are available at the Dean of Students' office.


Your program is 88 hours. You average 16 hours per semester over 5 semesters and that is 80 hours. 4 hours over two summers and you're done in 5 semesters. McGeorge seems to forbid doing this. Likewise, many people will be close to graduating after five semesters and have only 4 or so hours left and in some states can sit for the February Bar Exam and graduate in May, and become licensed upon graduation instead of later that summer. McGeorge doesn't allow this. I read the above to mean that you must carry 12 hours even if they are not needed.

Taking the bar early happens when sometimes you just want this thing over and done with. You start out at that job a lot earlier. You're a licensed attorney while your classmates are clerking until November or December. It was an advantage at the firm I went to as they allowed me not be lock-stepped with the folks coming after me.

"Kill it first year + . . . . . ." solid advice. Not what you asked though. I'd agree that the race is run after the first year. There's not going to be shitloads of movement in class rank after the first year. Sure, 1 - 15 might change spots because it's hundredths of a point. But nobody goes from the bottom quarter to the top quarter. You're dealing with classmates who are just as good as you. There's really not a whole lot of difference between 99% of the students. Most professors will admit that maybe one or two students per class will just lock in and knock it out of the park and maybe one or two really just won't get it. Everybody else is kind of bunched together.

Anyway. Things like law review --if grades are a factor will be decided the first year. More importantly, things like fall interviews for clerking positions are determined by your 1L grades. After the fall of your 2L year, the opportunities for on campus interviews will drop dramatically at a place like McGeorge. Not so at a place like California Berkeley or LA. First job opportunities at the big names will always be more abundant.

I have no idea how you can prepare to kill it the first year. Some people "get it" right away. Others take a while. Everybody who finishes usually has figured it out at some point. Once you do "get it" law school isn't that big of a deal. Some of my classmates spent 10-12 hours a day pouring over assignments over and again as if doing it a 15th time will somehow unlock the magic to clarify the stuff. It just comes on one day. The best thing I can tell you for a first year strategy (and later as well) is not to make things too complicated. You're going to have information thrown at you fast and furious to the point that you think you're drinking water from a fire hose. Don't get caught up in proving you have to show you know everything. That's not what it's about. It's about shifting through everything and giving the right answers. The right answer is almost always "It depends on. . . . ." Too many people got caught up on arguing both sides, but if one side doesn't really have a position, don't go there. I'm not saying to ignore issues, but rather don't pigeon hole stuff in that doesn't belong. Example: A question on the NM Bar I took gave a long convoluted fact pattern and ended up asking if the lawsuit could be filed in federal court. The answer was short and sweet as there was no federal question or diversity jurisdiction, the answer was no. Afterwards over some beers a bunch of us were talking about that question and it appeared to be hard and some people spend an over amount of time trying to answer that. There was no argument for federal jurisdiction and the question didn't ask us to decide the case in state court. My peers though I was nuts that I wrote a 2 sentence answer to that question. But we all know who got the high score on that bar exam.

Another thing to keep in mind. All of the above only is worth a shit for getting your first job. I'm having a hard time believing that right now some firm is really going to be worried about my grades in Federal Income Tax or Criminal Procedure. After a while it will only be about how good is your work and then what clients do you have.

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Old 07-09-2012, 05:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yeah that definitely makes more sense sober. When I get ready to take my electives should I try to take things that relate to each other in some way or does it matter?

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Old 07-09-2012, 06:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah that definitely makes more sense sober. When I get ready to take my electives should I try to take things that relate to each other in some way or does it matter?
That's kinda up to you. Don't expect that you're actually going to learn how to practice an area because you took a class or that it will further you along or anything. Except for clinics if they have those at McGeorge. Clinics you get to do some applied semi real life stuff --sorta. My take on electives was something like this priority:

1) Was I really, really interested in the subject over all things.
2) Did it fit the schedule and would I have the opportunity to take it later.
3) Did I like/hate the instructor.
4) Was it a class, any class, that fit and I needed to graduate.

I passed on a few classes of interest because of who was teaching. I had a dude for torts who I swear doesn't fucking have a clue about the subject. I wouldn't take him a second time if it was something I thought was important. Don't get me wrong there were some teachers that, like the dude I had for property, who was not even interested in the subject at all. But he was a completely different dude when he taught tree hugging.

Short answer, I'd not leave law school without taking these classes for sure whether or not they're required:

1) evidence,
2) crim law/procedure,
3) con law,
4) contracts,
5) property,
6) torts

I'd also try to get a few of these in:

a) wills and trusts
b) business associations
c) ethics
d) civ pro
e) community/marital property
f) advanced UCC stuff regarding secured transactions and commercial paper.

You will see 1) through 6) again. Those are on the MBE portion of the bar exam. Also you might have a few essay questions out of those as well. a) through f) are typical subjects from essay questions. You will also probably have to take that ethics bar exam (MPRE?).

Here's a few sample questions from the February 2012 California Bar Exam (http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Port...uestions.pdf):

Question 1
Sam, a widower, set up a valid, revocable inter vivos trust, naming himself as trustee, and providing that upon his death or incapacity his cousin, Tara, should be successor trustee. He did not name any additional trustee. He directed the trustee to distribute the income from the trust annually, in equal shares, to each of his three children, Ann, Beth, and Carol. He specified that, at the death of the last of the three named children, the trust was to terminate, and the remaining assets were to be distributed to his then living descendants, by representation.
When he established the trust, he also executed a valid will pouring over all his additional assets into the trust.
Two years later, Sam died. He was survived by Ann, Beth, and Carol. Within two months, Dave, age 25, began litigation to prove that he was also a child of Sam’s, although Sam had never known of his existence.
For three years after Sam’s death, Tara administered the trust as trustee. Because Ann had very serious medical problems and could not work, and because Beth and Carol had sufficient assets of their own, Tara distributed nearly all of the trust income to Ann and little to Beth and Carol.
After the court determined that Dave was in fact Sam’s child, Dave claimed a share of the trust. Beth and Carol have filed suit against Tara, claiming breach of fiduciary duties. Tara has submitted her resignation, and Beth and Carol have sought termination of the trust so that all assets may now be distributed outright to the beneficiaries now living.
1) What interests, if any, does Dave have in the trust assets? Discuss. Answer according to California law.
2) Are Beth and Carol likely to be successful in terminating the trust? Discuss. 3) Are Beth and Carol likely to be successful in suing Tara? Discuss.

Question 2 City recently opened a new central bus station.
Within the central bus station, City has provided a large bulletin board that is available for free posting of documents. City requires that all free-posted documents be in both English and Spanish because City’s population is about equally divided between English- and Spanish-speaking people.
City refused to allow the America for Americans Organization (AAO) to use the bulletin board because AAO sought to post a flyer describing itself in English only. The flyer stated that AAO’s primary goal is the restriction of immigration. The flyer also advised of the time and place of meetings and solicited memberships at $10 each.
Does City’s refusal to allow AAO to use the bulletin board violate the rights of AAO’s members under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution? Discuss.

Question 3
Paul sued David in federal court for damages for injuries arising from an automobile accident.
At trial, in his case-in-chief, Paul testified that he was driving westbound, under the speed limit, in the right-hand lane of a highway having two westbound lanes. He further testified that his passenger, Vera, calmly told him she saw a black SUV behind them weaving recklessly through the traffic. He also testified that, about 30 seconds later, he saw David driving a black SUV, which appeared in the left lane and swerved in front of him. He testified that David’s black SUV hit the front of his car, seriously injuring him and killing Vera. He rested his case.
In his case-in-chief, David testified that Paul was speeding, lost control of his car, and ran into him. David called Molly, who testified that, on the day of the accident, she had been driving on the highway, saw the aftermath of the accident, stopped to help, and spoke with Paul about the accident. She testified further that, as soon as Paul was taken away in an ambulance, she carefully wrote down notes of what Paul had said to her. She testified that she had no recollection of the conversation. David showed her a photocopy of her notes and she identified them as the ones she wrote down immediately after the accident. The photocopy of the notes was admitted into evidence. The photocopy of the notes stated that Paul told Molly that he was at fault because he was driving too fast and that he offered to pay medical expenses for anyone injured. David rested his case.
Assuming that all appropriate objections and motions were timely made, should the court have admitted:
1. Vera’s statement? Discuss. 2. The photocopy of Molly’s notes? Discuss. Answer according to the Federal Rules of Evidence.


Question 3 is a good example of a straight forward don't get too crazy. The short answer is that Vera's is inadmissible hearsay that has no exception. No point in going into shit like excited utterances, dying declarations, etc.

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Old 07-12-2012, 04:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Don't know how to link a PDF, so this will take two clicks:
?99 Problems? and the Fourth Amendment: What the Jay-Z Song can teach us about the Constitution.

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Old 07-12-2012, 09:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for your first good post in months
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Go fuck an accordian.

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Old 07-13-2012, 12:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I saw a video of a high school performance where the entire band was fucking accordions. I cried.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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AP, I need you to write three briefs for me by August 7th. I want to look impressive on my first day. I will PM you the case info.

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Old 07-20-2012, 04:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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AP, I need you to write three briefs for me by August 7th. I want to look impressive on my first day. I will PM you the case info.
Sure. I charge $300 per hour to write briefs. Minimum 10 hours. You can paypal me.

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Old 07-21-2012, 08:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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10 hours huh? I'm starting to wonder why they call them "briefs."

I do not currently own $3k worth of expendable monies. Let's just say you rock these out for me as a one time favor and I'll keep you in mind for my next project (for which you will be compensated lavishly).

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Old 07-22-2012, 03:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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10 hours huh? I'm starting to wonder why they call them "briefs."

I do not currently own $3k worth of expendable monies. Let's just say you rock these out for me as a one time favor and I'll keep you in mind for my next project (for which you will be compensated lavishly).
I sell these services in 10 hour blocks. No way would it take that long. But that's the minimum that these are sold.

You will soon learn, grasshopper, that being compensated lavishly must be in advance before doing anything.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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In Repug's would, you would do it for free and as a kind gesture
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Just stop.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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You didn't make that law degree. Somebody gave it to you - which means you don't have the right to charge.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Actually, all it means is that he should pay taxes on the money he makes.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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But those taxes should be of all the money he makes. Because he's not making it. The government is.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
G'd up from the feet up.
 
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This thread just got more interesting.

Creeping around as I please nonchalantly like any other Supreme Emperor might.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
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For Repug, I'd do it for free.

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I will rape your soul in hell forever.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
Gangnam Style
 
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For Repug, I'd do it for free.
because he's poor?
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
Suckle
 
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For Repug, I'd do it for free.
<3
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
G'd up from the feet up.
 
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This thread just got more interesting.
Nevermind. Self-negs.

Creeping around as I please nonchalantly like any other Supreme Emperor might.
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