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Unread 04-19-2003, 04:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
Orgazmo
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At the recommendation of Dirty Harry, I've decided to start the Mindfuck Thread. Basically, in this thread we talk about this that completely blows your mind. Just start typing and spill your brain into the little, white box. This all came about with the "Man from the Future" that's discussed in the News thread. Without further ado...let's talk about what would happened if a guy actually did come from the future.

First of all, if we could travel back in time, one of two things would have to happen. Either:

A.) As we go back in time, we de-age...thus making time travel in great leaps fairly pointless...

or

B.) You wouldn't de-age...you'd simply discover that time is constantly existing in an infinitely large number of infinitely small moments...all coniciding with each other, all running into infinity.

Talking about it today at lunch, someone proposed that there could never be such a thing as time travel...because, if there was, a time traveler would have come to visit us already. First thought makes you say "wow, I never thought of that...but you're right"...but, I tend to disagree. No matter which scenario above (A or B) you choose to accept (I can't think of any other possibilities right now), we still could never be visited by time travelers.

Fuck...scenario A couldn't exist anyway. Wow, I just mindfucked myself. Mind masturbation I guess. Anyway, think about this... If Scenario A is how it would be, then you couldn't travel in time before the machine was made...because, as you went back, the machine would slowly be taken apart (kinda like rewind on the building process...in a way). Then again, if it was like that...just rewind, that would mean that the machine would have to exist at the same exact location as it did before when a person went back in time. That means that if on Day E, the machine was in florida and on Day Z, a guy used it to travel back in time to Day A, the machine would have to exist in Florida as it passed through Day E...meaning time travel would be pointless because, although you'd relive the past, you wouldn't be able to change a damn thing. You'd have to do everything the exact same way that it was already done. I guess scenario A is like watching a movie...you can rewind & fast forward all you want...but you can't make the superhero make different decisions to effect the outcome...the end is always the same. But yeah, so you couldn't go back in time before the machine was made...because it'd just disappear. You could make the machine, wait 100 yrs, then use it to go back to when it was made...which is still going back 100 yrs...which isn't too bad I guess...just not as pimp as having free reign over all time.

As mindfucking as that was...Scenario B is quite a bit more, in my opinion. It puts the traveler as more of a visitor than an actual member of the time period that they go to...which would make more sense. The reason that it could never happen (even if time travel existed) is that there would be an infinite number of moments in time that would constantly be occurring. This is making perfect sense in my mind right now...not sure how it's coming out as I type...anyway. So yeah, there are an infinite number of moments, each repeating the moment after it, and about to be repeated by the moment before it. Of course, not knowing how to travel in time, we're simply confined to our own moment as it moves along at the speed of life...the same speed that all of the moments move, of course. We can't see the moment that's about to happen until it does just that...and we can't touch the moments that have already happened anywhere except our minds...

Of course, if Scenario B is true, that would mean there are an infinite number of me's (even though I may only life for a few years...it doesn't matter...because the moments are infinite...kinda comparable to points on a line I guess). Each instance of me thinks that he's the only one that exists. He thinks that he's in control of everything, sitting on the internet, typing a message about some hypothetical bullshit that he knows could never be the truth. He thinks he's expanding his mind by proposing ideas that send shivers down his spine...but in reality, he's only repeating the actions of the him one moment in the future. Each moment moving forward at a constant rate...and fading at the moment that death occurs. Of course, every moment one of me dies, but, in a moment however many years earlier, one of me is born...thus keeping the circle of me's infinite...and the procession endless. It's not only me though...and you...it's also the herd of cows that I pass on the way to school...and even the pop can that I'm chewing on while I type this out. It's the sexbear at the bottom left of this page. It's absolutely everything.

Scenario B implies predestination for every aspect of life...saying that each moment has no choice but to follow the moment that is precedes...just as it has no choice but to act as a mold for the moment that precedes it. In other words, I'm not typing this message because I wanted to start a Mindfuck thread...I'm typing this message because the Me one moment in the future is typing this message. He's typing it because the Me two moments in the future is typing it...and so on.

Alright, my head seriously hurts now. I tried to consider moments within moments. If each moment is like a snapshot of the universe...but a snapshot that is constantly changing, does the snapshot itself have time? Or is it still...just changing? Not sure if that makes sense...

Fuck, I don't even know how to explain what I'm thinking now. Not sure how you're doing...but I'm mindfucked.
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Unread 04-19-2003, 10:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Man, I need a cigarette.

I'm still reeling from all the scenarios and possibilities. I'll comment when my brain stops reeling.
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Unread 04-19-2003, 11:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Actually, many physicists out there do believe that time travel is actually possible, but only after it's been done, because it would alter the continuity of space time. So, you'd be essentially able to travel to any point in place and time after a time machine had been built. Time would be irrelevant after a time machine was built. You wouldn't be able to go back and change the past, because, well, you already did. Time would just fit together as a puzzle, the only continuity would be in your mind. Could you imagine your future self coming back to warn you about something that will happen? Not only this, he'd remember this happening to him, down to the little details, only he would be experiencing the event from a different perspective. If you think about it, the younger you would be unable to stop from becoming the older you... it's not that there'd be an infinite loop, just that time would be irrelevant. There is still only one you. You aren't doomed to your future, you are it, you still do it willingly. It is a slight bit of mindfuckery.

Yet, here's an idea I've thought up. There is no time. There is no motion, no continuity, no future, and no past. There just is. Just an infinite amount of perpetual, eternal instances, arranging any amount of matter and energy in every possible way. All you are is what you are in this instance, your thoughts are the products of the arrangment of matter in energy in your mind, nothing more. There is no cause and effect, just existance. Your perception of the past is only because of the way things are set up, not because they actually happened. Since in the infinite set of instances, there would be some that are quite similar, and our logical assembly of them in to a sequence (the passage of time), is what our mind tells us, but this is only because that's the way your brain in the instance you exist in is, not because it's how the universe works, just because that what your perception is of the instance. Logic is false in this case, and your perception is just the product of the instance. You did not read that last sentence. You did not just think about not reading that last sentence. You were never born, and you never die. Nothing ever changes. There isn't a lack of control, because your percieved existance is actually unchanging, you can't control your future if it doesn't exist, you aren't the product of a chain of events either, you just exist. Everything else that could ever possibly exist, any arrangement possible also does... but I can't call it simultaneous, because... well that would require the existance of time. So... to summarize what your arrangement of energy and matter leads you to believe what you just read, there is no time, there just is. Mindfucked.
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Unread 04-19-2003, 11:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't think you could b/c that would alter peoples decisions in life, and when u returned life could be completly different. Plus free will exist and you would miss out on all of your life. You would not know what happened in the life you have lived up till the age that you went back in time. So I feel it is impossible.
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Unread 04-19-2003, 11:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Release your preconcieved notions and stop thinking in a bloody fucking straight line. Yet, I don't see you being able to handle the intellectual challenge, so... I don't know, hell, smell some glue or ask Ingsoc to share whatever substance they buy with their prize money. (I don't care how well or bad they played, why the hell would we give them that much money?)
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Unread 04-20-2003, 03:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Damn I'm so mindfucked right now.

I love it.

I'll attempt to post something mindfucking later, so far I'm impressed, this thread has potential to be cool.
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Unread 04-20-2003, 03:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This thread has surpassed the potential. It's already at the 'cool' stage.

I loved victim's theory about the collection of instance's making up everything that is the universe, but I have a few thoughts that just don't seem to make it add up.

If every moment of our lives is a perpectual happening, why is there cohesiveness? Meaning, if there is no cause and effect....why is there a cause and effect? Do you get what I mean?

If every instant is a completely new gathering of energy, why does it remain in relation to the last moment? What dictates the formation of the energy into the new moment, making it similar, but not exactly like the moment before it? Basically, if there just is, why is it following so strict of a pattern, allowing me to be at my computer in one instant, and still at my computer, typing the same thing, thinking the same thoughts, remembering what I did yesterday, and deciding what to do tomorrow in the next, instead of buried in a displaced part of the Himilayas at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, which is now made out of entirely fish that has little bits of water swimming around in it?

Do you get what I'm saying? Cause to be honest, I'm not sure if I do myself. But it's interesting nonetheless. Think about it, and I hope that mindfuck was as good for you as it was for me. I gotta go wash some sheets.
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Unread 04-20-2003, 06:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You know when you're reading and you get done with one line and instead of going back down to the next, you repeat from the start of the one you just read? Yeah, I just did that while reading your post Chuck, and it freaked the shit out of me, I was already mindfucked and I thought I had just entered a moebius.

As far as time goes, it's easy.

A time machine could never exist.

Time is not on a timeline.
There was a past, but it doesn't exist now for fucksake, that's why it was, it has passed. You can't go back to it, it DID exist, but no longer does.

Why? You ask why?

Because time is change, that's all, change.
If there was no change, there would be no time, time would cease to exist.

If traffic lights didn't change.
If the planets didn't revolve.
If stars did not age and die.
If your cells didn't float and decay.

Time would cease to exist.
Of course, if that was true none of us would be alive, none of the known universe would be alive at all for that matter.

Anyhoo, the only way you'd be able to go back in time is to make everything exactly like it was then. Which is of course impossible, unless we learn how to clone and replicate exact circumstances that create people's personalities and change the climate and blah blah blah, all this is obviously humanly impossible. We can't rewind time, unless we can figure out a way to make our cells reverse decayal and make the planets revolve the other direction.

You can't get to the past, because from where we are, it is not that anymore, it's this new instance.

Notice the use of the phrase "it is".
It is not that way anymore.
It was that way.

[This message has been edited by Titan (edited April 20, 2003).]
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Unread 04-21-2003, 07:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Combat, I see what you're saying, and I know where your misconception comes from.

In the theory, the thoughts in your head, your perception of the past, of cause and effect, and well, everything, is because of the arrangement of your brain and the energy in it. It makes sense to you that there is a cause and effect, and time, because that's the way you arranged. There's infinite other instances in which other arrangements take place, some of them incredibly similar, just slightly different, for every instance that makes sense, there's many more that wouldn't. In some, you'd be sitting here doing the exact same action, but you'd have no idea why. Every single possible thing is encaptured in an instance, from definite shapes, to incoherent blobs, and everything else in between. It's not your imagination that is creating these things, they do. You aren't at the bottom of the Himalayas or with the fish in your instance, but in one instance, that scenario is true. There is no time. Everything (and I do mean everything) just exists. There was no yesterday, you did not just type or read that last sentence, and there is no tommorow. You only think this because of the way your instance is arranged. Every instance is not a new gathering of energy, Chuck, they all exist. They aren't flashing in and out of existance, they are perpetual and unending. You're still viewing this with the concept of time, and the fuckery is... that there is no time. You only think there is, because that's how it's set up... in other instances, you don't think in terms of time. Hope that helped.
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Unread 04-21-2003, 11:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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As Dave Matthews once said:

"Could I have been anyone other than me?"

-Ugly Bastard
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Unread 04-22-2003, 12:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I see what you're getting at now victim. Very very good point. I seriously had to go back and reread that, but I think that's the key to this thread. I am extremely mindfucked right now. Doesn't it feel good?

I have a great topic to relate to you guys, but I need to go find the comic it was written in. Be back tomorrow with a new theory that will fuck your blowing mind.
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Unread 04-23-2003, 09:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Wanna get mindfucked?

Do as I just did, and watch the movie, Being John Malkovich. It seriously fucks you up big time.

-Ugly Bastard
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Unread 04-23-2003, 10:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You know, I love how Being John Malkovich was in [b]Adaptation[/i]. It made me smile. Kaufman....a god among writers.
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