Who is going to hell? An argument for the Bible, Religion and God.

[MAGICLIT]

bloodyfart has a very substantial point AcTivE plus, he learned how to use the quote button which is really nice........

[George Sherman]

Thank god, I love it when people learn how to use the quote button, and how to edit a post.

[bloodyfart]

im a slow learner

[MAGICLIT]

that doesn't matter bloody, what matters is that you didn't give up, I for one am extremely proud.....

[bloodyfart]

and your pride motivates me to go on living

[MAGICLIT]

awww, don't say that, now everyone will be pissed at me cuz you're still alive (10)

[bloodyfart]

too late

[Repugnant Abomination]

Threads like this really piss me off, almost as much as everyone who has posted in it thus far.

First of all Active you need to stfu. You didn't come here for an open discussion you came here to disprove other people because you're so convinced you're right.

Second of all guys like Bloodyfart need to stfu as well. I'm so sick of hearing your psuedo intellectual bullshit, as if you fucking know anything.

The bottom line is religion is an Enigma. You can't disprove OR prove it 100%. It comes down to the individual. The fact that ANY of you come to this thread trying to prove your point as if it's an absolute is abursd. Fact of the matter is Active doesn't know if God exists, and Bloodyfart doesn't know that he doesn't. They both use their logic, education and personal experience to determine the chances of the bible actually being true. The fact that both of them ended up on the opposite side of things despite the fact that both of them are fairly intelligent just shows how varied their opinions, not truths, are. There are people on this earth a lot smarter then anyone who posts here who support both sides of the argument. Stephan hawkings and Albert Einstein for example both believe in a higher power based on their study of the universe. Is anyone here smarter then those two guys? No. Does that mean Christianity is correct? No.

As for my opinion I'm going to take a page out of socrates play book.

I don't know.

[bloodyfart]

"There are people on this earth a lot smarter then anyone who posts here who support both sides of the argument"
not true

also, i am agnostic, not an atheist. i came here to present another side of the argument. dont be so stupid as to assume that i hold any of the beliefs that i argue. its a debate, so i create holes in the other persons argument, similar to playing devils advocate (something you cant understand)

[Repugnant Abomination]

What I meant by that quote is that some very intelligent people support one side, while others support the opposite. Not that one supports both sides.

And I know plenty about playing devils advocate, but you only seem to be playing it against actives perspective. It's pretty much him vs the rest of the forum as of right now and generally when you play devils advocate you do so against the majority.

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by Repugnant Abomination:

First of all Active you need to stfu. You didn't come here for an open discussion you came here to disprove other people because you're so convinced you're right.

I made the thread to try and find someone to convince me I am wrong, actually.

It's a piece of shit now though, because no one has followed the actual point of the thread, but rather are just making blanket statements. I shouldn't have expected any more though...and will approach it from a different perspective.

[ May 07, 2005, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: AcTivE ]

[Ugly Bastard]

Just a general question to all the "God doesn't exist" people:

How do you think we got here?

-Ugly Bastard

Just curious;

Has anyone actually said "God doesn't exist" yet? From what I've read it seems we are just debating what, exactly, God would be. Not whether He exists.

[St. Anky]

jesus died...

[Titan]

Originally posted by Ugly Bastard:
Just a general question to all the "God doesn't exist" people:

How do you think we got here?

-Ugly Bastard

The same way god did.

[AcTivE]

I don't think God would need to question how he got here...though.

[bloodyfart]

Originally posted by Ugly Bastard:
Just a general question to all the "God doesn't exist" people:

How do you think we got here?

-Ugly Bastard

i am not going to claim to have that answer. however, because we dont have anyone who was around back then when it all started, your guess is as good as mine.
assuming it is the god of christianity holds no more weight than assuming it was started by an elephant god.

[AcTivE]

I'm going to go ahead and stray from what I was originally trying to do, and state my own beliefs.

I believe that the Bible can be used, along with other "philosophies" that are innate in everyone, that may or may not have yet been discovered. I believe that figuring out these philosohpies for yourself is *key* to understanding the Bible in a context that is relevant, instead of realistic, or fact*. I am in no means saying that the Bible is FALSE in any way. Instead, I am suggesting that even though this is an old book, has authors that are not "perfect", and by no means has recorded everything perfectly -- as is in a materialistic sense...

It can still be read that is in context with any "time". Look at the problems you face day to day. Are they not the same problems that the people had when Jesus was speaking to them? Why isn't Jesus performing miracles now you may ask?

Do you not suffer the same "unsatisfaction" that they have?

How can you set yourself apart from these people, are you any different?

and if you say, "Yes I am!"

then I say, why do you suffer from "unsatisfaction"?, has Jesus not already saved you? In my opinion he has, it's only when you recognize that he has--that you become saved. Your thinking/ideas my drift towards "saved" ideologies, but you are not them, until you believe it, and become it.

I believe the people in the Bible were "stuck" to their wants and needs in a way that reptiles are controlled by their instincts. We wanted free will, so we got it. Along with it comes experiencing things, as they are. That is when things become "tough" or even "satisfying".

To exist in the same realm as our immediate emotions--is to be like a creature that reacts on instinct.

I believe Jesus has shown us a way to salvation in this "world" and the next. I also believe we will not find this salvation, unless we believe that such an existence can exist.

And why can't you? [insert statement here] And to that I say--that is why things are the way they are. Until you can see beyond it, only as an event leading to your "salvation", things are exactly the way they are, because they need to be, for you to understand.

and to that I say

* one of these "philosophies" i've found in myself, and everyone that I've talked to--is that there IS a desire to search for meaning in one's own life

and adding on to that, i believe you come to a higher "consciousness" in a sense, when you realize a "truth". all of a sudden you have no thoughts of wondering about a subject, but realize it for what it is--because it is a "truth"

[ May 18, 2005, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: AcTivE ]

[St. Anky]

To me, Jesus adds up to any other prophet who tried to change the world with his enlightened consciousness. For me to say and firmly believe that Jesus was the son of god and the one and only messiah, as a creature of reason, would only go against my better judgement.

The Kabala, the Torah, the Koran, the Bible... all great books of wisdom and proverb. To try and prove one against another is an impossible feat. Who's right? Are all christians going to heaven and all Muslims going to hell? Are only Jews going to reach heaven? Maybe. You can ask all these questions that no one can answer, but will still debate.

I think the biggest question is, why do we spend so much time trying to decide on one set of ideas, instead of taking a couple different ideas and making new ones. Christianity might call that blasphemy. I call it the true search for god.

Active, what is it that keeps me from living a life free of wants and desire?

Its the realization that having things brings something to my life. It gives me individuality. Its sad to say that we need material things to justify our own presence in our world but its the way things are. The way things are.

[ May 18, 2005, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: St. Anky ]

[bloodyfart]

there is no such thing as an innate philosophy. that makes the giant assumption that one philosophy is the right one, which is extremely dangerous. for instance, you believe that jesus saved you, yet a buddhist believes that there is no you to be saved in the first place. to say that you are right and they are wrong is a bit arrogant.

moreover, i could show you the story of the buddha who suffered and outlined in much greater terms than jesus as to how to deal with said suffering, so why is he not your savior?

[AcTivE]

first of all, tell me someone that exists that does not question why they exist or where they came from--and i can probably show you that the same person didn't use to think that way

[St. Anky]

When I was a child I never thought about why I was put here on this earth. But thats because all I knew were my parents and family. Now that I'm older though, and away from them, I must admit that I do think about these things. Why? Maybe because I somehow want to be back in the frame of mind I had as a child. To be nieve about the world. To be innocent again. If you're saying that god exists simply because there's this drive for us to look for him, then you must understand that just because we find ourselves looking for something divine, doesnt mean it has to exist. For each individual who does search for that, it may exist. But that's just leading to the idea that we're our own gods and forms of salvation.

[bloodyfart]

Originally posted by AcTivE:
first of all, tell me someone that exists that does not question why they exist or where they came from--and i can probably show you that the same person didn't use to think that way

wtf does that have to do with the bible? yes, humans are curious about their origins just like they are curious as to what is on the back of a business card (people always flip over business cards when you hand them one). however, the existance of curiosity in no way lends itself more to christianity than any other religion. moreover, no one has the real answer as to where we came from, not even science.

[MAGICLIT]

aww man, i thought this bible study thread was over, can't we talk about sin instead? I'm good at sinning...............

[St. Anky]

and its not necessarily the bible that we're talking about. why is it that when the word religion is mentioned, people automatically start talking about the Bible, or christianity alone. Its not the only religion in the world...