Who is going to hell? An argument for the Bible, Religion and God. - Page 27 - Nubblies.net Forums

Mr. Blonde · 03-10-2010, 01:21 AM

If you assert as fact that god "put" it there, but we're taking that out of the equation. So take him out of the equation, entirely, and describe to me how you think we would be.

BigDongedHoe · 03-10-2010, 01:28 AM

I am asserting God put it there. I can't think of how we would be without God because without him there would be no us.

However a life on earth with no believers would be very similar to life on earth now. We're so far from Christ as humans already I don't think it would be much different than it is today.

Mr. Blonde · 03-10-2010, 01:31 AM

Why are we so far from Christ?

BigDongedHoe · 03-10-2010, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Why are we so far from Christ?

Sin

Fruitacious B · 03-10-2010, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

You know that you know that you know and it's very clear that you do know.

That's clarity if I've ever seen it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

Where does this moral conscience come from? Our evolution?

yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

I thank Der Fuhrer for what he's saying in that Christians are good respectable people because of there morality.

I couldn't help but note the humor of how that reads.

Mr. Blonde · 03-10-2010, 01:57 AM

So in essence, you agree that if no god existed, to ever "implant" us with morals, life would be very similar on Earth to what it is now? Then why believe? Are you familiar with Occam's Razor? If you aren't, look it up. A god possessing the powers you claim yours does would likely be the most complex thing in the Universe, much more complex than living breathing beings on Earth. If you can't admit that we developed through evolution, how can you believe that "God", the most complex being of all time, just "existed"? How is that any different from evolution? (there are many theories in regard to abiogenesis, btw, but that's for a different discussion, one I would happily get into)

Anyways, yes, there are theories as to the evolutionary development of "morals" in humans and other animals. As general altruism would not, in most cases of evolution (survival of the fittest), increase ones fitness, it is suspected that morality is an evolutionary byproduct. Another theory revolves around "reciprocation" (I scratch your back, you scratch mine). Science still has a long way to go with the evolutionary developments of many kinds of animal behavior, but we've come a long way so far, and there is absolutely no reason to fill these "gaps" with a god, other than for your own, personal appeasement. "Welp, must be god. I can stop worrying about that problem now!

If you recall, religion used to be an "explanation" for a lot of things in life on planet Earth before science began to advance...well, demons and sin, specifically. Disease, weather, injuries, death, good fortune, etc. etc. etc.

Mr. Blonde · 03-10-2010, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

As I've mentioned previously once you know that you know Christ there isn't really any question anymore. You know that you know that you know and it's very clear that you do know.

This. This is a big problem for me, because it inhibits the search for knowledge in the Universe. It helps people to be satisfied and complacent, assuredly soothed every Sunday that everything is going to be okay, that at the end of this rat race there IS a purpose to life, and you're on the right path. It teaches people to accept statements and proposals as fact without questioning them themselves, because "someone else" is taking care of it. It makes people feel not only comfortable, but justified in inaction. All of this is detrimental to human progress.

ninjaface · 03-10-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

I've brought up where Christianity is different from any other religion. If you believe that Jesus is who he said he was then you believe he is a living God. All other religions worship a dead God. No other religion believes in a living God that is still able to preform miracles today.

I don't see why that makes it special. So christianity is different from other religions... so what? All religions are different from all other religions. So by your reasoning you should really believe in all of them.

Ugly Bastard · 03-10-2010, 09:13 AM

It's not right from wrong as much as survive vs. perish. It's our instinct to survive. In almost all cases, going on a killing or stealing rampage vastly decreases our chances of doing this. Our own personal survival instincts demand that we bahave morally. For some people, this isn't enough, so guys like Constantine had to conjure up religions to get everyone else on board in terms of feeling like their lives have meaning.

DDTempest · 03-10-2010, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

As I've mentioned previously once you know that you know Christ there isn't really any question anymore. You know that you know that you know and it's very clear that you do know.

How do you feel about a God that only grants this to some? I, and I assume that God would as well, know deep down in my heart that I very much want the feeling of fulfillment and contentment you claim to have found in God. I want so much to believe, but I am simply unable. How is if fair that I was created by God to enact God's plan only to be cast into the pits of hell for all eternity for being the man God made me? What about the people that are isolated from God's word and are never given the opportunity to even hear it?

Repugnant Abomination · 03-10-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Fuhrer

This thread has become an abomination. It has fallen so far from its original purpose, which is to discuss and debate the existence of God, NOT to question, ridicule, and harass BDH because of his beliefs.

This.

We're not getting anywhere. Why don't we take this thread in a different direction? Is anyone familiar with Pantheism? I think if I were ever to believe in "God" it would be something like this. Of course, it pretty much requires a new definition of God, but I'm okay with that.

I first discovered Pantheism in an American literature class. We were reading works by Emerson, Thoreau, Hawthorne, Melville, etc...That era of American writing is known as the Transcendental period (comparable to the English Romantic period). They wrote about things we still talk about today - self reliance, man's oneness with nature, understanding life through experience (rather than just reading about it) individualism, and so on. A lot of the issues they wrote about are particularly relevant in today's America.

Some of the works they're responsible for are Moby Dick, Civil Disobedience, The Scarlett Letter, and Nature - pretty influential stuff.

Here's a link to Pantheism for anyone interested: Pantheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And one to Transcendentalism: Transcendentalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BigDongedHoe · 03-10-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDTempest

How do you feel about a God that only grants this to some? I, and I assume that God would as well, know deep down in my heart that I very much want the feeling of fulfillment and contentment you claim to have found in God. I want so much to believe, but I am simply unable. How is if fair that I was created by God to enact God's plan only to be cast into the pits of hell for all eternity for being the man God made me?

God granted us the free will to seek him (Paraphrasing scripture it says "seek you and will find me") but he also knows whether or not we are going to choose him. When you say "I am unable" have you genuinely prayed to accept Christ into your heart (when I say genuine I mean truly mean it)? Have you read his word and prayed for him to open your eyes (read Psalm 119:18)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDTempest

What about the people that are isolated from God's word and are never given the opportunity to even hear it?

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20

This was big in my faith, simply knowing God by his creation. I look around and see all the beauty on earth and know that Christ is real because of the complexity of the world around us.

Fruitacious B · 03-10-2010, 02:30 PM

Quoting Scripture doesn't prove anything. I can pretty much guarantee that there's another verse to contradict every one that you could mention, that's the way the bible works.

I don't like the way Christians will quote the Old Testament to verify their faith, and then brush it off as 'old' or as if it's less relevant than the New Testament when faced with counterpoints from that same section of the bible.

BigDongedHoe · 03-10-2010, 03:17 PM

You take scripture to apply meaing to your life now and what life is like in the present day. So yes fruit some scripture is taken more literally than others because of its application.

Obviously when scripture says to cut off my right hand if I sin I'm not going to do it. But when Christ tells me the only way for true life and salvation in Christ is to accept him as my savior I'm going to take that more literally.

BigDongedHoe · 03-10-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitacious B

Quoting Scripture doesn't prove anything.

You couldn't be more wrong. In my faith quoting scripture is everything. I don't form opinions on my own, I form them based off of what scripture tells me. I'm not trying to prove this as truth (even though I believe it to be) but rather telling you why I believe that it is truth. So yes quoting scripture is everything when it comes to my faith.

Ugly Bastard · 03-10-2010, 03:45 PM

This argument is starting to have ran its course. Blonde, DDT, Fruit & co., you are arguing with BDH from a rational viewpoint. That's commendable. The only problem is that BDH's beliefs aren't rational, they're emotional. You are

literally

wasting your time. If anything, by arguing with BDH, you're only giving credence to his beliefs. Dumb, emotional beliefs are best ignored, not engaged.

Fruitacious B · 03-10-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Dumb, emotional beliefs are best ignored, not engaged.

Good point.

also, +rep for that being the 666th post in this thread, very appropriate.

Der Fuhrer · 03-11-2010, 01:24 AM

My life sucks raw ass right now. If there is a God, I want him to know that I hate his fucking guts and I am going to try and try and try while burning in hell to find a way to destroy him.

Fuck him for giving some people awesome lives, other people shitty lives, and still others lives full of starvation, violence, disease, and premature death in the form of horrible parasitic infections that cause one to bleed out before death.

God I fucking hate this cocksucker called God.

Mr. Blonde · 03-18-2010, 01:13 PM

http://www.27bslash6.com/A17.html

Ugly Bastard · 03-18-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

"Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus have a sword fight."

LOL... that was awesome.

Mr. Blonde · 03-19-2010, 09:54 PM

Sceptic challenges guru to kill him live on TV - Times Online

Ugly Bastard · 03-19-2010, 10:02 PM

Wow... there's a lot wrong with that. What's most amazing to me is that the spiritualist truly believed he could kill the man and went ahead and tried to do it!

DDTempest · 03-21-2010, 01:39 PM

Beebs · 03-22-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Sceptic challenges guru to kill him live on TV - Times Online

Reminds me of this

YouTube - Kiai Master vs MMA

It's simple really God does not exist, just as Kiai/Chi/Whatever doesn't. Believe it does and get your stupid ass kicked by MMA/the cruel master of reason.

Mr. Blonde · 03-22-2010, 11:52 PM

Tear down the wall of silence in the Roman Catholic Church. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine - "The Catholic priests who abused children—and the men who covered it up—must be prosecuted."

03-10-2010, 01:21 AM	#651 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	If you assert as fact that god "put" it there, but we're taking that out of the equation. So take him out of the equation, entirely, and describe to me how you think we would be.
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

03-10-2010, 01:28 AM	#652 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	I am asserting God put it there. I can't think of how we would be without God because without him there would be no us. However a life on earth with no believers would be very similar to life on earth now. We're so far from Christ as humans already I don't think it would be much different than it is today.
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two.

03-10-2010, 01:31 AM	#653 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	Why are we so far from Christ?
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

03-10-2010, 01:57 AM	#656 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	So in essence, you agree that if no god existed, to ever "implant" us with morals, life would be very similar on Earth to what it is now? Then why believe? Are you familiar with Occam's Razor? If you aren't, look it up. A god possessing the powers you claim yours does would likely be the most complex thing in the Universe, much more complex than living breathing beings on Earth. If you can't admit that we developed through evolution, how can you believe that "God", the most complex being of all time, just "existed"? How is that any different from evolution? (there are many theories in regard to abiogenesis, btw, but that's for a different discussion, one I would happily get into) Anyways, yes, there are theories as to the evolutionary development of "morals" in humans and other animals. As general altruism would not, in most cases of evolution (survival of the fittest), increase ones fitness, it is suspected that morality is an evolutionary byproduct. Another theory revolves around "reciprocation" (I scratch your back, you scratch mine). Science still has a long way to go with the evolutionary developments of many kinds of animal behavior, but we've come a long way so far, and there is absolutely no reason to fill these "gaps" with a god, other than for your own, personal appeasement. "Welp, must be god. I can stop worrying about that problem now! If you recall, religion used to be an "explanation" for a lot of things in life on planet Earth before science began to advance...well, demons and sin, specifically. Disease, weather, injuries, death, good fortune, etc. etc. etc.
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

03-10-2010, 02:30 PM	#663 (permalink)
Fruitacious B Bokononist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,595 Internets: 11801	Quoting Scripture doesn't prove anything. I can pretty much guarantee that there's another verse to contradict every one that you could mention, that's the way the bible works. I don't like the way Christians will quote the Old Testament to verify their faith, and then brush it off as 'old' or as if it's less relevant than the New Testament when faced with counterpoints from that same section of the bible.
	"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." \|vonnegut

03-10-2010, 09:13 AM	#659 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	It's not right from wrong as much as survive vs. perish. It's our instinct to survive. In almost all cases, going on a killing or stealing rampage vastly decreases our chances of doing this. Our own personal survival instincts demand that we bahave morally. For some people, this isn't enough, so guys like Constantine had to conjure up religions to get everyone else on board in terms of feeling like their lives have meaning.

03-10-2010, 03:17 PM	#664 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	You take scripture to apply meaing to your life now and what life is like in the present day. So yes fruit some scripture is taken more literally than others because of its application. Obviously when scripture says to cut off my right hand if I sin I'm not going to do it. But when Christ tells me the only way for true life and salvation in Christ is to accept him as my savior I'm going to take that more literally.
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two.

03-10-2010, 03:45 PM	#666 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	This argument is starting to have ran its course. Blonde, DDT, Fruit & co., you are arguing with BDH from a rational viewpoint. That's commendable. The only problem is that BDH's beliefs aren't rational, they're emotional. You are literally wasting your time. If anything, by arguing with BDH, you're only giving credence to his beliefs. Dumb, emotional beliefs are best ignored, not engaged.

03-11-2010, 01:24 AM	#668 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	My life sucks raw ass right now. If there is a God, I want him to know that I hate his fucking guts and I am going to try and try and try while burning in hell to find a way to destroy him. Fuck him for giving some people awesome lives, other people shitty lives, and still others lives full of starvation, violence, disease, and premature death in the form of horrible parasitic infections that cause one to bleed out before death. God I fucking hate this cocksucker called God.

03-18-2010, 01:13 PM	#669 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	http://www.27bslash6.com/A17.html
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

03-19-2010, 09:54 PM	#671 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	Sceptic challenges guru to kill him live on TV - Times Online
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

03-19-2010, 10:02 PM	#672 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Wow... there's a lot wrong with that. What's most amazing to me is that the spiritualist truly believed he could kill the man and went ahead and tried to do it!

03-22-2010, 11:52 PM	#675 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	Tear down the wall of silence in the Roman Catholic Church. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine - "The Catholic priests who abused children—and the men who covered it up—must be prosecuted."
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna