Who is going to hell? An argument for the Bible, Religion and God. - Page 53 - Nubblies.net Forums

thekremlin · 10-08-2012, 04:54 AM

Pls add "Who-going-hell-argument-bible-religion-god" to the wiki.

Dent · 10-08-2012, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

philosophy

More Babble - YouTube

DDTempest · 10-08-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

Blonde's cliffs are not a reflection of what was said, but a window into how his limited mind interpreted them. It's not even condescending so much as sad.

I realize now, post after post, that this is a waste of time, because you (Blonde) lack an even rudimentary understanding of philosophy. You have a pre-determined world view that is unshakable because you don't grasp concepts that exist outside of this view. That's what's so hilariously frustrating: you don't even understand what we're actually arguing about.

Go take a few philosophy classes, learn more about what the disagreements are and what different philosophers and scientists say about them, get embarrassed, dust yourself off, and get back to me. Otherwise just tell people you're a pure Materialist right up front and that nothing can change your mind. That will solve a lot of this going around in a circle and you can spend more time thinking you're being way less "emotional" than other people and go on being smugly miserable.

This is exactly what I tried beating into his head before, he wants to come off as an intellectual philosopher but is essentially just choosing a different religion (his own) and sticking his fingers in his ears screaming "I CANT HEAR YOU"

Ugly Bastard · 10-08-2012, 11:25 AM

Seems unfair. Blonde is usually right IMO. His approach might be abrasive at times but it's not as if his beliefs are based in fantasy.

Johnny Richter · 10-08-2012, 11:26 AM

Yes, blonde's religion is atheism and environmentalism. I said this almost three years ago.

Ugly Bastard · 10-08-2012, 11:27 AM

What's my religion?

thekremlin · 10-08-2012, 11:35 AM

Nutsack worship.

Repugnant Abomination · 10-08-2012, 01:24 PM

Sums up the issues nicely, regardless of which side you agree with:

Can Physics and Philosophy Get Along? - NYTimes.com

This is the only point I've been trying to make the whole time:

"Precisely because science deals with only what can be known, direct or indirectly, by sense experience, it cannot answer the question of whether there is anything — for example, consciousness, morality, beauty or God — that is not entirely knowable by sense experience. To show that there is nothing beyond sense experience, we would need philosophical arguments, not scientific experiments."

THEINCREDIBLEdork · 10-08-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

What's my religion?

Do you deny that there is a difference between Blonde's and your relationship with Atheism?

Atheism is part of his identity, similar to how someone who is really involved in their church and is a Christian is part of their identity. I am not taking a position in this post as to whether or not that either is a bad thing.

I would argue that Blonde treats atheism as his religion. If there was a congregation of Atheists in his neighborhood that met every Sunday I imagine Blonde would be a regular attendee.

When you describe yourself or meet someone new how far down the list do you go before you say "I'm an atheist"? The fact your an atheist is probably a small detail of your life. And something that is not Atheism defines a part of your idenity (being a redheaded gayford imo).

Johnny Richter · 10-08-2012, 03:36 PM

People whose religion is not based upon a diety are often as delusional as those who pray to fairy men in the sky. For example, the devout atheist is his own savior. This leads to a massive superiority complex and turns the person into a giant dbag. The same is true for devout environmentalists, except instead of science and anti region as the champion, environmentalists use the environment as their cause to champion. And with conviction stronger than ten Quakers in 1700, it's no wonder they're gaining followers.

Repugnant Abomination · 10-08-2012, 07:12 PM

We're not even talking about religion...We're talking about something that has religious implications.

"Precisely because science deals with only what can be known, direct or indirectly, by sense experience, it cannot answer the question of whether there is anything — for example, consciousness, morality, beauty or God — that is not entirely knowable by sense experience. To show that there is nothing beyond sense experience, we would need philosophical arguments, not scientific experiments."

Does anyone disagree with this? If not then I don't even have anything to argue.

Repugnant Abomination · 11-17-2012, 03:18 PM

Sam Harris gets destroyed by Dr. William Lane Craig - YouTube

Ugly Bastard · 11-20-2012, 11:00 AM

Seriously embeddeding a two hour video of a religious debate? Are we supposed to click that and watch it now?

vaga1220 * · 11-20-2012, 04:47 PM

I know I am. (10)

Johnny Richter · 11-20-2012, 06:07 PM

I watched the whole thing and loved it. (10)

ninjaface · 11-20-2012, 07:50 PM

Pudding! (10)

THEINCREDIBLEdork · 11-20-2012, 10:07 PM

One side always gets "destroyed" or "annihilated" in these youtube debate videos. Then you watch it and realized you've wasted two hours of your life.

That's what happened to me when I sat down in a chair, adjusted my glasses, placed my computer in my lap, slightly decreased the brightness and contrast, and then proceeded to watch this entire two hour long video that I watched (10)

EDIT: just kidding i didn't watch it

Orgazmo · 11-20-2012, 10:47 PM

I was a bit skeptical too, but it actually hooked me within the first 5 minutes or so. Drug on a bit around the 50-70 minute mark, but I was legitimately glad to have watched it by the end.

(10)

Repugnant Abomination · 11-22-2012, 06:09 PM

I'm so glad you guys enjoyed it!

Mr. Blonde · 11-29-2012, 06:03 PM

Hello my little lost children. I had a nice hiatus.

I came here to say that Repug, having posted a video between Sam Harris and Dr. Lane Craig, probably the most dishonest religious apologist master debater of all time, is proof that Repugnant Abomination has become a religious apologist in full.

Repugnant Abomination is still not likely to admit this to himself. Personally, I would like this confession from him; it would be less cowardly than to hide in the grey curtains of philosophy and not take a stand for what he currently believes in.

A minor psych evaluation is in order here. I am disappointed that I have to bring up a rather hurtful point of his past, but most of us here know about about Repug's family issues, the great loss he suffered, and the religious insanity he has been put through in the past with his fundamentalist blood relatives.

This, of course, spurred Repug down the path of the militant atheist, which he kept up for a few years. As this wiley, intellectual rebel was tamed by a young female who he recently decided to marry (another major life event that likely brought to life a certain ignored spirituality), he began to think himself all the more of the armchair philosopher.

Repug currently resides in a rather poetic realm of spiritual purgatory. He is more afraid of death than he would ever admit publicly, and this fear now rules his life and his worldview. He is convinced that there has to be some sort of higher power in the universe because this fear of dying is so strong in him.

It's so strong that it has caused him to eschew physical evidence in regard to this higher power (or lack thereof) entirely, based on his comments in this thread. I have already tried to tell him that anything that affects the physical world (as a deity would have to do) would (eventually) be able to be detected by physical instruments, thus falling under the realm of physical science.

Repug has made it clear that he disagrees with this entirely, and that philosophy is the only thing that can answer god questions, which is rather silly, as we are, after all, merely high-thinking apes.

Repug will likely refute the idea that he is an apologist, or that he now believes in a higher power, preferring to hide behind the repeated claims of "I'm just saying that SCIENCE doesn't have all the answers!!! I'm not saying there is a god, I'm just saying, YOU NEVER KNOW, GUYS and also I don't believe atheism is the correct position anymore, which would, by default, make me a form of theist.

It does not really bother me what Repug, or really anyone believes, as much, anymore, due to an experience I will relate elsewhere. I almost pity Repug, in a very Thomas Aquinas way, because of the absolutely rationally indefensible position of theists everywhere, the religious apologists have such a larger burden to bear, and have to do so much more work to try and make square pegs fit into circle holes. This will always happen when you believe in something emotionally so much, that you desperately claw your way around intellectually to make the worldview you want to adequately fit within the parameters of actual, observable, reality.

TL;DR - Repug is now a religious apologist who believes in a higher power because: philosophy. He in this way chosen to align himself only with pro-theism philosophers and seems to completely ignore the many atheistic or agnostic philosophers and the points they have made. He no longer has any regard for physical evidence (or lack thereof) in regard to "the god question", and, I should also note, he has not responded to my messages on Facebook to attempt to bridge this belief gap and put it behind us. Thus, sadly, Repug and I can no longer be friends. He is married, well on his way to being a believer, and quite clearly thinks that Nubblites are not "on his level", although he will probably deny this as well.

THEINCREDIBLEdork · 11-29-2012, 07:32 PM

Perhaps you should go back to facebook where you have control over who can see your posts. So you can make sure that the only people you ever talk to agree with everything you say?

Beebs · 11-29-2012, 08:13 PM

I think he's just really into religious philosophers and theology.

Mr. Blonde · 11-29-2012, 08:39 PM

Yes, and I'm sure he's remained completely neutral in regard to whether he thinks a god exists or not while on that path of knowledge-seeking [10]. Everyone has a stance, he clearly cares deeply about finding "truth", yet has chosen the religious path. If he won't elaborate on his stance, it will be defined for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mistoffelees

Perhaps you should go back to facebook where you have control over who can see your posts. So you can make sure that the only people you ever talk to agree with everything you say?

You do miss me! <3

thekremlin · 11-30-2012, 08:58 AM

Back with a vengeance.

I'm looking forward to a more blunt, no-holds-barred Blonde. ::bloodyfoot::

thekremlin · 11-30-2012, 08:58 AM

Someone teach me how to make the bloody foot thingy.

11-20-2012, 04:47 PM	#1314 (permalink)
vaga1220 * *Dislikes ham Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: HELL 666 Posts: 1,515 Internets: 60790	I know I am. (10)
	Putting the sensual in non-consensual.

11-20-2012, 10:07 PM	#1317 (permalink)
THEINCREDIBLEdork Emperor Meow Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,314 Internets: 282947	One side always gets "destroyed" or "annihilated" in these youtube debate videos. Then you watch it and realized you've wasted two hours of your life. That's what happened to me when I sat down in a chair, adjusted my glasses, placed my computer in my lap, slightly decreased the brightness and contrast, and then proceeded to watch this entire two hour long video that I watched (10) EDIT: just kidding i didn't watch it
	#YOLO Last edited by THEINCREDIBLEdork; 11-20-2012 at 10:24 PM.

11-29-2012, 06:03 PM	#1320 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,919 Internets: 275079	Hello my little lost children. I had a nice hiatus. I came here to say that Repug, having posted a video between Sam Harris and Dr. Lane Craig, probably the most dishonest religious apologist master debater of all time, is proof that Repugnant Abomination has become a religious apologist in full. Repugnant Abomination is still not likely to admit this to himself. Personally, I would like this confession from him; it would be less cowardly than to hide in the grey curtains of philosophy and not take a stand for what he currently believes in. A minor psych evaluation is in order here. I am disappointed that I have to bring up a rather hurtful point of his past, but most of us here know about about Repug's family issues, the great loss he suffered, and the religious insanity he has been put through in the past with his fundamentalist blood relatives. This, of course, spurred Repug down the path of the militant atheist, which he kept up for a few years. As this wiley, intellectual rebel was tamed by a young female who he recently decided to marry (another major life event that likely brought to life a certain ignored spirituality), he began to think himself all the more of the armchair philosopher. Repug currently resides in a rather poetic realm of spiritual purgatory. He is more afraid of death than he would ever admit publicly, and this fear now rules his life and his worldview. He is convinced that there has to be some sort of higher power in the universe because this fear of dying is so strong in him. It's so strong that it has caused him to eschew physical evidence in regard to this higher power (or lack thereof) entirely, based on his comments in this thread. I have already tried to tell him that anything that affects the physical world (as a deity would have to do) would (eventually) be able to be detected by physical instruments, thus falling under the realm of physical science. Repug has made it clear that he disagrees with this entirely, and that philosophy is the only thing that can answer god questions, which is rather silly, as we are, after all, merely high-thinking apes. Repug will likely refute the idea that he is an apologist, or that he now believes in a higher power, preferring to hide behind the repeated claims of "I'm just saying that SCIENCE doesn't have all the answers!!! I'm not saying there is a god, I'm just saying, YOU NEVER KNOW, GUYS and also I don't believe atheism is the correct position anymore, which would, by default, make me a form of theist. It does not really bother me what Repug, or really anyone believes, as much, anymore, due to an experience I will relate elsewhere. I almost pity Repug, in a very Thomas Aquinas way, because of the absolutely rationally indefensible position of theists everywhere, the religious apologists have such a larger burden to bear, and have to do so much more work to try and make square pegs fit into circle holes. This will always happen when you believe in something emotionally so much, that you desperately claw your way around intellectually to make the worldview you want to adequately fit within the parameters of actual, observable, reality. TL;DR - Repug is now a religious apologist who believes in a higher power because: philosophy. He in this way chosen to align himself only with pro-theism philosophers and seems to completely ignore the many atheistic or agnostic philosophers and the points they have made. He no longer has any regard for physical evidence (or lack thereof) in regard to "the god question", and, I should also note, he has not responded to my messages on Facebook to attempt to bridge this belief gap and put it behind us. Thus, sadly, Repug and I can no longer be friends. He is married, well on his way to being a believer, and quite clearly thinks that Nubblites are not "on his level", although he will probably deny this as well.
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

11-29-2012, 07:32 PM	#1321 (permalink)
THEINCREDIBLEdork Emperor Meow Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,314 Internets: 282947	Perhaps you should go back to facebook where you have control over who can see your posts. So you can make sure that the only people you ever talk to agree with everything you say?
	#YOLO

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10-08-2012, 11:25 AM	#1304 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Seems unfair. Blonde is usually right IMO. His approach might be abrasive at times but it's not as if his beliefs are based in fantasy.

10-08-2012, 11:26 AM	#1305 (permalink)
Johnny Richter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,742 Internets: 249402	Yes, blonde's religion is atheism and environmentalism. I said this almost three years ago.

10-08-2012, 11:27 AM	#1306 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	What's my religion?

10-08-2012, 01:24 PM	#1308 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Suckle Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,932 Internets: 155868	Sums up the issues nicely, regardless of which side you agree with: Can Physics and Philosophy Get Along? - NYTimes.com This is the only point I've been trying to make the whole time: "Precisely because science deals with only what can be known, direct or indirectly, by sense experience, it cannot answer the question of whether there is anything — for example, consciousness, morality, beauty or God — that is not entirely knowable by sense experience. To show that there is nothing beyond sense experience, we would need philosophical arguments, not scientific experiments."

10-08-2012, 03:36 PM	#1310 (permalink)
Johnny Richter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,742 Internets: 249402	People whose religion is not based upon a diety are often as delusional as those who pray to fairy men in the sky. For example, the devout atheist is his own savior. This leads to a massive superiority complex and turns the person into a giant dbag. The same is true for devout environmentalists, except instead of science and anti region as the champion, environmentalists use the environment as their cause to champion. And with conviction stronger than ten Quakers in 1700, it's no wonder they're gaining followers.

10-08-2012, 07:12 PM	#1311 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Suckle Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,932 Internets: 155868	We're not even talking about religion...We're talking about something that has religious implications. "Precisely because science deals with only what can be known, direct or indirectly, by sense experience, it cannot answer the question of whether there is anything — for example, consciousness, morality, beauty or God — that is not entirely knowable by sense experience. To show that there is nothing beyond sense experience, we would need philosophical arguments, not scientific experiments." Does anyone disagree with this? If not then I don't even have anything to argue.

11-20-2012, 11:00 AM	#1313 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Seriously embeddeding a two hour video of a religious debate? Are we supposed to click that and watch it now?

11-20-2012, 06:07 PM	#1315 (permalink)
Johnny Richter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,742 Internets: 249402	I watched the whole thing and loved it. (10)

11-20-2012, 07:50 PM	#1316 (permalink)
ninjaface Level 20 Holothetan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Space Posts: 5,231 Internets: 210144	Pudding! (10)

11-20-2012, 10:47 PM	#1318 (permalink)
Orgazmo COME ON YOU YANKS Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 15,367 Internets: 291816	I was a bit skeptical too, but it actually hooked me within the first 5 minutes or so. Drug on a bit around the 50-70 minute mark, but I was legitimately glad to have watched it by the end. (10)

11-22-2012, 06:09 PM	#1319 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Suckle Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,932 Internets: 155868	I'm so glad you guys enjoyed it!

11-29-2012, 08:13 PM	#1322 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,079 Internets: 106883	I think he's just really into religious philosophers and theology.