civil rights?

[Danhalen]

I am an avid NPR listener. While driving home from work the other day, I heard a discussion concerning civil rights. The overall gist of the program was that while the movement of the 1960’s greatly improved a large segment of the population, there is still a lot more work to do. As the program continued, different people were asked what they felt the civil rights movement needed. One woman proposed that the movement needed to be brought back to a more ethnocentric movement, particularly, black Americans. I have a huge problem with this. Are we not all citizens?

I am an atheist American. Is it not my right, as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, to not have religion of any form endorsed by the government? Why must I send my child to school to learn the pledge of allegiance to a symbol of The United States only under the condition that our nation is under God? Why must I be reminded that my country trusts in God every time I put gas in my car? Why must I witness the president of my country swear his allegiance to my country on a bible? I do not accept that God is a generic word that has no specific theology in mind. Do Muslims pray to God? Do Jews pray to God? Do Hindus pray to God? I could keep going, but you get the point. We have freedom of religion, as long as you pray to the right god.

I am a working class American. Is it not my right to give my children the best opportunities in life through education? Why can’t my children get the best available education because I can’t afford it? Why is education a privilege of the rich? Should they not be given all the tools to allow them the pursuit of happiness? Don’t get me wrong, once they are 18, they are on their own, but until then they should receive the best available to allow them to compete when they are 18. Why can’t I receive the same medical attention as the CEO of my company? Simply because he can afford the best medical care does not mean that he should have more right to life than me.

I have gay American friends. Why are they not afforded the right to happiness? Why is it not their right to be officially recognized as being with the one that they love? Why is it that gay Americans must hide who they are if they wish to defend the country they love?

I have female American friends. Do they not have the right to the same pay for a hard days work as men?

My list goes on and on. I could probably write a book about how my constitutional rights are not granted. I don’t want preferential treatment. I want all of us to have the same rights. Lately it seems to me that our country was founded on the belief that all men were created equal if they are white, Christian, and wealthy. We are only as strong as our weakest link. If some of us are left behind, we all become lost. If we don’t stand up and take our rights back, we have no one to cry to when we have no rights left.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

First, I listened to your shitty song in the Arts Forum, I didn't say anything because I wanted to be nice and not an asshole. But now I feel comfortable telling you that you fucking suck because now I realize that I hate you. Your a fucking pussy and I wish everyone like you would die along with your trendy gay American friends. I like NPR. That is all.

[ February 03, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: THEINCREDIBLEdork ]

[Danhalen]

Originally posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork:
First, I listened to your shitty song in the Arts Forum, I didn't say anything because I wanted to be nice and not an asshole. But now I feel comfortable telling you that you fucking suck because now I realize that I hate you. Your a fucking pussy and I wish everyone like you would die along with your trendy gay American friends. I like NPR. That is all.

so, how do you really feel? relax man, it's almost a free country.

[Niger Angelus]

It is free country. Stop whining.
America was formed upon Christianity, why, because it is undeniable. Try to find explanations of the beginnings of time from any other faith or religion and all the explanations are filled with loopholes. It is simple. You can practice as you please, you have and are given that right. So I don't see why you are getting all whiney here.
You are a working class man who feels he is being cheated because he doesn't live in a socialist government, well if you want to live like the upper crust; work hard to get there. That was simple.
Gays should not be allowed marriage, why? Because marriage is a union between man and wife in front of the eyes of God, family and friends. That is why the service is performed by a minister. Ok.
As far as women getting paid less, I say this. Who is the head of the household and who is responsible for the financial stability in the household? The male. Maybe it isn't fair, but boo hoo. Now you may say, what if she is a single mother? Well, it is her own fault for screwing some guy out of wed-lock. Maybe she got divorced. Well, I personally don't agree with divorce because you promised to love that person for the rest of your life when you married them. So, did you take those vows knowing you were lying? What was the point in that? None. If you aren't willing to make it work, look elsewhere for someone who is worth it to you to do so.

[Danhalen]

It is free country. Stop whining.
America was formed upon Christianity, why, because it is undeniable.

than why do i deny that it's truth? you may want to prove your point...

Try to find explanations of the beginnings of time from any other faith or religion and all the explanations are filled with loopholes.

a guy seperates light from dark, does some other crap in the middle and presto, 7 days later there is a universe. yeah, makes perfect fuckin' sense to me...

It is simple. You can practice as you please, you have and are given that right. So I don't see why you are getting all whiney here.

rights are not given, privelage is given.

You are a working class man who feels he is being cheated because he doesn't live in a socialist government, well if you want to live like the upper crust; work hard to get there. That was simple.

i don't want socialism, i just despise theocratic oligarchy under the guise of representative democracy.

Gays should not be allowed marriage, why? Because marriage is a union between man and wife in front of the eyes of God, family and friends. That is why the service is performed by a minister. Ok.

you still have yet to substantiate the existence of god. oh yeah, judges perform marriages too. dumb ass.

As far as women getting paid less, I say this. Who is the head of the household and who is responsible for the financial stability in the household? The male. Maybe it isn't fair, but boo hoo.

ok ward, please go check on the beaver for me. in case you haven't noticed, it's not 1953 anymore...

Now you may say, what if she is a single mother? Well, it is her own fault for screwing some guy out of wed-lock.

maybe the guy out of wed lock should bear the responsibility then. what the hell is that?

Maybe she got divorced. Well, I personally don't agree with divorce because you promised to love that person for the rest of your life when you married them. So, did you take those vows knowing you were lying? What was the point in that? None. If you aren't willing to make it work, look elsewhere for someone who is worth it to you to do so.

uh, what if the guy wanted the divorce. would it still be her fault? shit happens. i'm sure you have never broken a promise.

Originally posted by Danhalen:
Do Muslims pray to God?

Yes.

Originally posted by Danhalen:
Do Jews pray to God?

Yes.

Originally posted by Danhalen:
Do Hindus pray to God?

They pray to a few of them.

The common consensus is that Jews, Muslims, and Christians share the same idea of "God" that the government has in mind. Does this fuck over Hindus and Buddhists, and God knows what other religeons? A bit. But they are in such a minority, that it's hardly an issue. We are never going to change everything, and to completely eradicate "God" from every public forum, formal or informal, is to turn our backs completely on a fundamentalism that the nation was based on.

Why can't anybody take anything in stride anymore?

I have no problem really with allowing any group to have their religeous rights, but this shouldn't include denying our religeous past.

Edit:

Originally posted by Danhalen:

I don't want socialism, i just despise theocratic oligarchy under the guise of representative democracy.

Uh oh, looks like somebody started using big words without realizing the consequences.

The problem with any words is that they convey only shades of meaning, rarely... if ever can anything completely concrete be transmitted from one to another.

The fact of the matter is that we don't live in a "Theocratic Oligarchy," and no amount of conspiracy theories could convince me that:
1)The Government is run by a secret leader, like the pope
2)The two major parties are in cohorts
or
3)That our votes don't actually count.

Do you actually know what a "Theocratic Oligarchy" is? The closest example I can think of is the Vatican. The United States is nothing like the Vatican, your vote counts, everybody gets one, no matter what their religion.

Think the President (or the Republican party for that matter) is exercising undo religious influence upon the nation? Well it's certainly not intolerable as the Republicans managed to completely demolish the Democrats this year (partly because of an ignorant faith that an Anti-Bush attitude will get you anywhere in life).

Now we move onto your other word "guise." Ohhhhhh you sound so fucking intellectual, I bet you go to Harvard! Grow up kid, the structure of the United States Government is completely transparent. I will not deny that there are aspects of smaller agencies that you may not have access to, and some of these may or may not be ethical, but these are not critical to the makeup of the government as a whole.

There is not anything being hidden from you of the makeup of the 3 main bodies of power (Congress, the President, The Justice System). Everything is public. Everything eventually comes down to the people on Election Day in some way or another.

We are, in fact, a true Representative Democracy, and your arguing otherwise, without any substantial, structured argument, makes me dislike you and disrespect you.

[ February 03, 2005, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: DJ FC ]

[Mr. Blonde]

Fuck you FC. That was too hard for me to read.

[Niger Angelus]

You totally took everything I said out of context and misconstrued it to fit your arguements.
Do some re...nevermind.
For the God issue, read 'Mere Christianity' by CS Lewis, then get back to me on that.
As far as gay marriage, it isn't natural. Therefor it isn't right. And don't give me this whole people are born gay rant, that has been proven false.
As far as the set-up of family. For the sake of the family, just like the sake of the nation it is run by men. Men are proven to make more logical and less-biased decisions. Women are caretakers and protecters of her children, and as far as decision making goes she follows the same idealology.
And my single mother arguement, now if the man takes care of the children what does she have to complain about again, because call me illogical but I am sure she is only responsible, for the most part, of supporting herself.
And lastly, I find promising yourself to someone a little deeper and more important promise than telling your friend you will meet them for lunch per se. Because in that situations things can come up that can hinder that. In marriage things happen and those things should be dealt with and resolved.
And in closing, go shoot yourself and tell me where you end up tonight.

[Danhalen]

Originally posted by DJ FC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danhalen:
Do Muslims pray to God?

Yes.</font>[/quote]actually they say allah. i don't care if that translates to god, they call him allah.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danhalen:
Do Jews pray to God?

Yes.</font>[/quote]no, they pray to ywyh. there is a difference.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danhalen:
Do Hindus pray to God?

They pray to a few of them.</font>[/quote]none of which they name god.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
The common consensus is that Jews, Muslims, and Christians share the same idea of "God" that the government has in mind.

no it's not. why the fuck do you think they've been killing each other for ever? common origin does not equate identical ideas. besides that, the government is not supposed to have any religion in mind by it's own original rules. need i remind you of the first amendment?

Originally posted by DJ FC:
Does this fuck over Hindus and Buddhists, and God knows what other religeons? A bit. But they are in such a minority, that it's hardly an issue.

yeah, fuck everyone else that doesn't believe in what the majority believes. we would never have repealed jim crowe laws by that logic. is it ok that minorities were once not allowed to vote in the south?

Originally posted by DJ FC:
We are never going to change everything, and to completely eradicate "God" from every public forum, formal or informal, is to turn our backs completely on a fundamentalism that the nation was based on.

i don't wish to eradicate god from the public. if you believe in god you have a right to profess it. government have the authority to impose religious doctrine based on the first ammendment. according to the governmen, my rights are being infringed upon. fundementalism is hardly the word i would you to describe the men that founded this country. they were mostly deists, not fundemental christians.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
Why can't anybody take anything in stride anymore?

same reason those silly black people couldn't take the violation of their constitutional rights in stride.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
I have no problem really with allowing any group to have their religeous rights, but this shouldn't include denying our religeous past.

enforcing the rights of all does not exclude the recognition of the past.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Danhalen:

I don't want socialism, i just despise theocratic oligarchy under the guise of representative democracy.

Uh oh, looks like somebody started using big words without realizing the consequences.

The problem with any words is that they convey only shades of meaning, rarely... if ever can anything completely concrete be transmitted from one to another.

The fact of the matter is that we don't live in a "Theocratic Oligarchy," and no amount of conspiracy theories could convince me that:
1)The Government is run by a secret leader, like the pope
2)The two major parties are in cohorts
or
3)That our votes don't actually count.

Do you actually know what a "Theocratic Oligarchy" is? The closest example I can think of is the Vatican. The United States is nothing like the Vatican, your vote counts, everybody gets one, no matter what their religion.</font>[/quote]i say theocratic because our current government wishes to legislate christian morallity. is this an in accurate statement?

i say oligarchy due to the fact that the people in charge of us are mostly from wealthy political dynasties(how much money does the bush family have and how many generations have been in federal government?).

Originally posted by DJ FC:
Think the President (or the Republican party for that matter) is exercising undo religious influence upon the nation? Well it's certainly not intolerable as the Republicans managed to completely demolish the Democrats this year (partly because of an ignorant faith that an Anti-Bush attitude will get you anywhere in life).

i think the republican party, not just bush, is violating the bill of rights. i do not include all republicans in this. democrats are often responsible for other violations of rights. i am sure i'd be pissed off at another issue if a dem were in charge right now.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
Now we move onto your other word "guise."

if that is what you consider a big word, go back to school. retard.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
Ohhhhhh you sound so fucking intellectual, I bet you go to Harvard!

what the fuck does my education have to do with anything? for the record (and this will probably be held against me) i have never been to college.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
Grow up kid, the structure of the United States Government is completely transparent. I will not deny that there are aspects of smaller agencies that you may not have access to, and some of these may or may not be ethical, but these are not critical to the makeup of the government as a whole.

fuckin' a! i never said there was a conspiracy. i said that my rights are being blatently ignored. where the fuck did you pull that from?

Originally posted by DJ FC:
There is not anything being hidden from you of the makeup of the 3 main bodies of power (Congress, the President, The Justice System). Everything is public. Everything eventually comes down to the people on Election Day in some way or another.

yes it does. we agree. calling the system representative of whom though? that is my question on the system.

Originally posted by DJ FC:
We are, in fact, a true Representative Democracy, and your arguing otherwise, without any substantial, structured argument, makes me dislike you and disrespect you.

you think lobbyists represent us? you think big business represents us? laws on either side of the party line get tailored to them. you are fucking blind if you don't see that. i am not represented in government, nor are many other people. if you are so blinded by your jingoism (another big word, you might want to look that one up) then join the fucking military and go get shot protecting the business, i mean, government interests.

by the way, you meant to spell your as you're in that last quote.

your opinion of me is of no interest to me.

[Danhalen]

Originally posted by Niger Angelus:
You totally took everything I said out of context and misconstrued it to fit your arguements.
Do some re...nevermind.

you should have stopped there.

[Mr. Blonde]

I am officially not reading anymore of this thread.

[Niger Angelus]

You are one ignorant moron. How about you study some religions before you decide they are all wrong. You remind of trying hold an arguement with a 9 year old. Get some facts straight first.

[Niger Angelus]

And just to let you know, I once considered myself and atheist for about two years. But then I started to do some research and had several personal experience that showed me I was just being a blind self-pity filled mess.

[sim_flex_x]

Muslims claim to believe in the same God Christians do. The only reason I'm saying that is because I took a class on the subject. From what I understand Jews do as well, and I don't know anything about Hinduism. However I don't see how a different language translates to a different God.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally posted by Danhalen:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ FC:
Why can't anybody take anything in stride anymore?

same reason those silly black people couldn't take the violation of their constitutional rights in stride.
</font>[/quote]I'm sure nigs everywhere would just love you comparing your "strife" with slavery.

[ February 04, 2005, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: THEINCREDIBLEdork ]

[Beebs]

Originally posted by Niger Angelus:

As far as gay marriage, it isn't natural. Therefor it isn't right. And don't give me this whole people are born gay rant, that has been proven false.

So anything that is unnatural is wrong? Birth Control? Space Travel?

I don't think it has been proven either way if people are born gay or turn gay, or both.

Im not neccesarily arguing your conclusions, but the logic you used to get there is a bit...odd.

Originally posted by Danhalen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ FC:
We are, in fact, a true Representative Democracy, and your arguing otherwise, without any substantial, structured argument, makes me dislike you and disrespect you.

by the way, you meant to spell your as you're in that last quote.
</font>[/quote]Ha. Ha Ha*. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I now am 100% that I am dealing with a dumbass who just wants to feel good about himself.

We are, in fact, a true Representative Democracy, and you are arguing otherwise, without any substantial, structured argument, makes me dislike you and disrespect you.

Guess what? That's improper grammar! Dumbass.

We are, in fact, a true Representative Democracy, and your arguing otherwise, without any substantial, structured argument, makes me dislike you and disrespect you.

Guess what? That's not improper grammar! Read it again.

Edit: I make it a point not to call people out on their grammar or spelling, as I too am prone to imperfections, but if you feel the need too... please make sure you get it right before calling someone out on it.



[ February 04, 2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: DJ FC ]

[Mr. Blonde]

oh SNAP! Didn't see that one coming.

[Saint DH]

I was going to write a response to this fucking moron, but I realized that everything that I said would go in one ear and out the other, and there's no point to arguing with this socialist fuck. I know that if I actually devoted my time to crafting a decent argument, the cunt fuck would simply quote every fucking line of my post, and reply with some more whiney bullshit that is completely false.

The bottom line is that he's just mad because he's a poor, uneducated, gay, bastard child. I kind of wish what you said about having your rights ignored were true, because I would love to go to your house and beat you with a 2x4. I can't do that though, now can I?

[George Sherman]

I wasn't going to write a response to this fucking moron, but I realized that everything he says just pisses me the hell off. I believe in God, I read the Bible, what the fuck, do I push that shit on you? No. The reason you see In God We Trust on money, and say One Nation Under God in the pledge, is because the founders of this nation were christian. You have no argument about anything whatsoever. You remind me of another piece of shit moron like yourself named Alphamale. Congratulations you are my new Least Favorite Person.

Edit:
I edited this post because after I posted I went back to read your original post, and FUCK, Jesus Christ just shut the fuck up.

[ February 05, 2005, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: George Sherman ]

[Beebs]

Originally posted by George Sherman:
The reason you see In God We Trust on money, and say One Nation Under God in the pledge, is because the founders of this nation were christian.

Am I the only one who realizes that "In God we trust" was added to currency in 1954? It had nothing to do with the founding fathers, in fact the founding fathers prefered money without it.

Edit "One nation under god" was added June 14, 1954. It amazes me that these idiots get upset about the idea that the supreme court might "change" the pledge, fuck you idiots, it was never supposed to include that phrase anyway.

[ February 05, 2005, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Beebs ]

I agree the phrase shouldn't be there.

But I want it on there.

So I'm going to argue that this is neither the place nor the time to have it removed. Removing it now is more of a political statement than leaving it on and justifying it by some means or another.

Sounds a little greedy doesn't it? Oh well.

[underwater]

Originally posted by George Sherman:
I believe in God, I read the Bible

Originally posted by George Sherman:
...FUCK, Jesus Christ just shut the fuck up.

this is one of the reasons, although a small one, that i don't claim to be a christian anymore. i'm not even basing this statement on JUST what i have quoted, but his allover personality: i hate hypocrites.

also, i think i now understand why the majority of you don't like me.... i agree with every single thing that Danhalen says, and it upsets me that you guys can't even maturely argue with him.. it seems like you don't even listen, you just shut him down. it's ridiculous.

[ February 05, 2005, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: underwater ]

[George Sherman]

How am I a fucking hypocrite? Because I believe in God and I swear fuck you bitch.

Edit:
And the only reason you don't call yourself a christian anymore is probably because your one of those assholes who too much of a pussy to say what they believe in, because they are afraid of people rejecting them. Which in your case probably makes alot of sense, I'm sure your used to rejection.

[ February 05, 2005, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: George Sherman ]

[Beebs]

Originally posted by DJ FC:
I agree the phrase shouldn't be there.

But I want it on there.

So I'm going to argue that this is neither the place nor the time to have it removed. Removing it now is more of a political statement than leaving it on and justifying it by some means or another.

Sounds a little greedy doesn't it? Oh well.

I don't really care if it is there or not, I guess as a matter of prinicple I would prefer it not be, but I am just pointing out that most of the people who bring "in god we trust" or "one nation under god" up are just flat out ignorant.