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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Opening Up to Religion

I'm starting to come full circle on religion. I could probably make this into a fairly lengthy post, but I'm going to do my best to keep it concise.

For several years now, I have really found no reason to include religion in my life. I just haven't felt like I needed it. Lately, I've had random urges to call out to God or believe in something. These urges were pretty surprising to me at first. I'd catch myself and be like, "wtf?! Why am I pleading to some imaginary God in my head? I haven't done that in years."

I think I'm finally starting to see value in religion and understand why people believe. Do I actually think that, say, Jesus is the literal manifestation of God and that belief in him will result in an afterlife in heaven? No, I don't. I think that's silly. But I like the idea of having a religious belief. I like the idea of believing in a higher power and turning to that power in times of weakness in order to find strength and guidance.

I'm not about to become some moralist Bible-thumper, but I could see myself coming to identify with some level of faith and getting into a community church group or something that is really positive and doesn't condemn non-believers.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It's strange that you made this post. I have started to go to church every Sunday. My GF and her parents forced me to go, but I feel like it is clensing my sole a little bit at a time. I happier now then what I ever was before. I've cut things out of my life that were hindering my relationships. I wish it didn't take me so long, but it's better late then never I spose!! Psalm 23!

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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard View Post
I like the idea of believing in a higher power and turning to that power in times of weakness in order to find strength and guidance.
Even if that higher power doesn't necessarily (or even likely) exist? It's a placebo effect that I really don't think you can take advantage of at this point in your intellectual development.

Quote:
I'm not about to become some moralist Bible-thumper, but I could see myself coming to identify with some level of faith and getting into a community church group or something that is really positive and doesn't condemn non-believers.
Slippery slope, my friend. By not condemning non-believers and "accepting all comers", they are giving validity to every viewpoint, which is simply not the case in reality. It opens one up to an almost false-trust, because they're not just going to let an open atheist hang out in their care groups for too long without converting him. I'm not saying it will happen to you, but by letting your defenses down to a group of people that one can eventually become emotionally attached to, one put themself at risk of being manipulated into believing something that, with their skeptical wits about them, they would never have believed.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Really happy to hear this UB. Although I am not religious myself, I think anything that makes people happy should be encouraged and if embracing Jesus gets your rocks off, more power to you.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I do believe we all need something to cling to when times are hard. To help us get by.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 11:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I can't bring myself to believe in this stuff. Gotta say I'm a bit surprised by this. But if it makes you happy, I'm happy for you. No need to begrudge someone for this.

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Unread 01-24-2011, 12:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I definitely see what you're saying about the 'surrounding yourself with positive thoughts' stuff. Two Saturdays ago I volunteered at the local Soup Kitchen at Tits' urging. She was doing it with some of her work friends. Long story short, I thought it would be lame and a giant hassle, but I really took a lot away from it. Anyway, the one big thing that everyone else that was there had going for them was religion. Even the god damned homeless people were all about it. And, while believing it literally isn't something that I think I could subscribe to, having a common cause with nearly every stranger can't be a bad thing, right?

Not entirely sure what the next step is, but there's a local church group that does that type of stuff a lot. I don't really want to join a church, but maybe just a monthly feel-good task of some sort we meet up with them for a morning. Not sure, but I'll keep you posted.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 01:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think the problem that Blonde has, and many of you do, too, is that you know God exists. You know Jesus is the son of God, but you reject his love and absolute fucking dominance under the guise of "he doesn't exist".

Maybe you were molested by your pastor as a child, Blonde, or maybe you've done such unforgivable (in your mind) evil that you feel that you need to run from Christ our lord and savior. God forgives all Blonde, and it wasn't your fault that your pastor touched you there. Let it go and embrace the light. You will find everlasting hope and love in the kingdom of light. God bless you Blonde.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 01:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You can't limit Blonde's issues to just 2 paragraphs. We need an intervention of some sort. We need to teach him the ways of our lord.

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Unread 01-24-2011, 01:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde View Post
Even if that higher power doesn't necessarily (or even likely) exist? It's a placebo effect that I really don't think you can take advantage of at this point in your intellectual development.



Slippery slope, my friend. By not condemning non-believers and "accepting all comers", they are giving validity to every viewpoint, which is simply not the case in reality. It opens one up to an almost false-trust, because they're not just going to let an open atheist hang out in their care groups for too long without converting him. I'm not saying it will happen to you, but by letting your defenses down to a group of people that one can eventually become emotionally attached to, one put themself at risk of being manipulated into believing something that, with their skeptical wits about them, they would never have believed.
You just can't resist can you? At what point does you're trying to save everyone from religion become just as bad as religious people trying to save people's souls?

Creeping around as I please nonchalantly like any other Supreme Emperor might.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 02:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It's very coincidental you started this thread now, UB, as I've been having some thoughts along these lines lately too. For me, it's more so a realization that being a full on empiricist (i.e. scientist/atheist) has some troubling limitations. Like it or not, rationalism has its place in philosophy - it's a legit epistemological path. So if the existence of God exists beyond the tools of science (i.e. empiricism) then maybe it's not God that's the problem, but the tool I've been using to try and find him.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 05:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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To try to bring something serious out of the thread. I truly do have a religion, and that is the human will.



The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 06:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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UB, are you going to join me for Holiday Mass next Christmas?

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Unread 01-24-2011, 08:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache View Post
You just can't resist can you? At what point does you're trying to save everyone from religion become just as bad as religious people trying to save people's souls?
This is right along the same line of my thought process as well. All of the evangelical atheists out there are doing the same thing as the other religions and their preaching.

You don't believe in god because you're so goddamn smart, we get it.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 09:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Come on guys. Let's be a little less witch-hunt-y and hivemind-ish about this. I merely try to rationalize with Mr. UB based on the fact that he, a friend i've known for about 8 years, might be going down an irrational path based on a lie, and you guys jump on me like I just kicked the crutches out from a mentally handicapped kid. I didn't insult him, nor anybody else in this thread. I'm permitted to hash out my (correct, for the record-- because i'm so goddamn smart) opinion on the matter the same as any of the rest of you.

You would also all do well to notice the subforum this is in, and how it's not Life Projects -- probably the only forum on Nubblies where it is unwritten that harsh dissent and insults are not to be tolerated. Which I didn't do anyways.

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Unread 01-24-2011, 09:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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At least the first 2 go away after they try to make their point.

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Unread 01-24-2011, 10:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
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We're persecuting you for your non-beliefs, heathen.
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Unread 01-24-2011, 11:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It's kind of weird you brought this up UB. My cat and my grandma died recently. And weirdly the only thing that would ever make me feel better when it was really rough was to kind of just reach out. Like one of those "Dear God, if there is a God" moments. A strange comfort would come over me and I'd feel at peace for while.

I don't know, but its something to think about I guess.

#YOLO
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Unread 01-24-2011, 11:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I haven't experienced anything like that. I'm just beginning to think maybe I've had too narrow of a source of knowledge view.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 03:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Unread 01-26-2011, 05:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heurisdick View Post


Militant Atheist
Exactly what I was pointing out to my roommate. The cartoon makes no sense. Stalin and Mao - both atheists - killed 8 figures each.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 07:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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There has never been a war fought in the name of atheism. People might be atheists who are committing war, but I challenge you to prove that was Mao's inspiration.

So, DJ FC, the cartoon does make sense because the first two panels are people committing crimes and "evil" because of their faith.

Quote:
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” - Steven Weinberg
In any case, as i've said, i'm 99.9% this whole thread is a massive case of trolling me anyways. Repug's posting in here and various posreps i've seen littered about just make things too suspicious to believe you've all suddenly gone full-retard.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 08:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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My point is you can't blame the ideology for the stupid people that misinterpreted it and did horrible things. In Mao's case, his lack of religion absolutely contributed to his actions. He had no respect for individual human rights, and his policies killed millions of people, all for "the greater good". Does that mean you blame atheism? No. Just like you don't blame Christianity for killing abortion doctors. Or even worse, the Westboro Baptist Church.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 08:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde View Post
In any case, as i've said, i'm 99.9% this whole thread is a massive case of trolling me anyways.
Yes blonde, this entire thread was created to troll you. We've been plotting this for months.

#YOLO
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Unread 01-26-2011, 09:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think I'm make a good point, actually, one I'd like you to address.
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