Chicago Teacher's Strike - Nubblies.net Forums

Mr. Blonde · 09-11-2012, 11:54 AM

This discussion is sure to piss some of you objectivist hyper-libertarian-types off.

What are key issues in Chicago public school strike? – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Saint DH · 09-11-2012, 01:10 PM

I didn't read the article, but I'm going to guess that they want more money. They'll probably get it too since Chicago sucks more union dicks than anywhere else in the country, except maybe in the White House ever since Obama moved in. Where is he from again?

Beebs · 09-11-2012, 01:22 PM

Doesn't really piss me off, it's part of the deal with public education.

f3lix · 09-11-2012, 05:27 PM

Teachers striking goes against everything they are supposed to stand for and is an embarrassment to teachers elsewhere.

These new evaluation systems being put into place will get rid of the shitty teachers and I'm all for them. Fuck those who show up only for a paycheck when our future is in the hands of those more concerned about themselves in a selfless profession.

thekremlin · 09-12-2012, 01:09 AM

So they shouldn't have the same rights as people who do more selfish jobs?

DJ FC · 09-12-2012, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

This discussion is sure to piss some of you objectivist hyper-libertarian-types off.

What are key issues in Chicago public school strike? – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Pretty sure lots of libertarians are 100% OK with striking dude. Libertarian /= The Man

f3lix · 09-12-2012, 05:42 AM

As a teacher, I can assure you that I've never met a good colleague who would strike. There's a difference between getting bum-fucked by your employer and crying that you are being held accountable to the point you decide to strike.

DDTempest · 09-12-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

They'll probably get it too since Chicago sucks more union dicks than anywhere else in the country

clearly not, they did have to strike to get what they want

Mr. Blonde · 09-12-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

As a teacher, I can assure you that I've never met a good colleague who would strike. There's a difference between getting bum-fucked by your employer and crying that you are being held accountable to the point you decide to strike.

Have you ever met a good colleague who was part of a Union?

f3lix · 09-12-2012, 04:06 PM

Despite the teacher's union being the biggest in the country, no.

Mr. Blonde · 09-12-2012, 04:17 PM

Ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Union teachers don't consider you a "good" colleague?

Dent · 09-12-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

As a teacher, I can assure you that I've never met a good colleague who would strike. There's a difference between getting bum-fucked by your employer and crying that you are being held accountable to the point you decide to strike.

Scab

f3lix · 09-12-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Union teachers don't consider you a "good" colleague?

I can easily tell you the teachers at my school that don't like me are the ones that I make look bad by running two programs, a hoops team, and an academic team, all more successfully than my predecessors.

It easily breaks down to those who realize the kids are the true winners (the colleagues I support and support me) vs. those who see me as a threat to them and their job via the administration who are looking to remove dead weight teachers who are not assisting in improving the school environment and replace them with the go-getter type teachers.

It is very polarizing.

This is why I completely support the new evaluation system, which accounts for your overall professionalism, school support, and attitude. Those who haven't changed their class or improved themselves professionally in 20 years are teaching to a generation that does not have the attention span to be lectured to for 50 straight minutes.

Being a teacher is like being a parent. If you treat it like a job, you will be horrible at it and the young minds looking for you to always be at your best will not fully realize their potential.

thekremlin · 09-13-2012, 12:57 AM

What do Rahm Emmanuel and DH have in common? They both oppose the CTU strike.

Where do they differ? Nickelback
Rahm Emanuel Saves Reputation, Renounces Nickelback - National - The Atlantic Wire

Mr. Blonde · 09-13-2012, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

This is why I completely support the new evaluation system, which accounts for your overall professionalism, school support, and attitude. Those who haven't changed their class or improved themselves professionally in 20 years are teaching to a generation that does not have the attention span to be lectured to for 50 straight minutes.

Being a teacher is like being a parent. If you treat it like a job, you will be horrible at it and the young minds looking for you to always be at your best will not fully realize their potential.

I actually agree a lot on this. But in the same sake shouldn't a new evaluation system be put in place every 5-10 years?

f3lix · 09-13-2012, 05:33 AM

The unions blocked them since their inception. Now that the union breakdown is occurring, teachers can be treated like employees of a business and don't have automatic job security, hence the major retirement numbers last year and coming over the next two years.

Saint DH · 09-13-2012, 08:40 AM

It's ridiculous that during a time when government spending and national debt are at all time highs and a time when millions of Americans are unemployed, these teachers would bitch and whine so much for more money that they'd strike.

DDTempest · 09-13-2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

It's ridiculous that during a time when government spending and national debt are at all time highs and a time when millions of Americans are unemployed, these teachers would bitch and whine so much for more money that they'd strike.

Who are these fucking people that are complaining about money when someone else is unemployed? That's preposterous! Who cares if food and energy costs have risen!? At least you have a job!

DH, can I call you DH? If you signed up for a job that didn't pay as much as other jobs but offered you an incentive ... like a fucking pension, would you want to make sure that partway through your journey to reach that pension you would be able to finish? Would you trust a cash strapped school system to "only get rid of bad teachers" when long-tenured teachers have higher salaries? You're going to freak out a bit. You're going to strike.

Saint DH · 09-13-2012, 09:14 AM

First thing, if I signed up for a job knowing that it pays less than other jobs, I wouldn't bitch about getting paid less than other jobs.

Second thing, you clearly have no idea how pension plans, particularly defined contribution plans, work.

thekremlin · 09-13-2012, 09:16 AM

The strike was sparked after the city rescinded it's guarantee of a 4% pay rise, right?

thekremlin · 09-13-2012, 10:27 AM

FACT CHECK: Chicago Area Teachers Earn An Average Wage Of $56,720 | Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC)

Saint DH · 09-13-2012, 11:04 AM

That seems like really good money for nine months of work. Sometimes I wish I would have been a teacher.

I would be the kind of teacher that f3lix would hate bc I fucking hate kids.

Repugnant Abomination · 09-13-2012, 02:59 PM

It's not as black and white as tweedledee and tweeldedum make it sound.

Too many people think teachers are solely responsible for the grades their students get. That's reasonable, but only part of it. More important than anything when measuring the success of a child are their parents and how their household views education. Time and time again you see that the most successful kids are the ones whose parents hold them accountable, help them with their homework, make sure they're staying on track, and encourage them.

For America it is a cultural problem. People look at school like day care these days. A lot of parent's don't want to raise their kids. This is a problem when we have a public education system that nobody wants to pay taxes for. Many opt for private or home school. Contrast this with a place like Asia that values education above all else and you see how fickle the American public is about schooling. On top of this, educators are not looked at like other professional careers, like a lawyer for example. Yet you need a master's to be a teacher, and make like, what, 1/4th of what other professions do?

Another problem with basing a teacher's performance on student outcomes is that it gives teachers an incentive to give better grades than they normally would. If their job security is on the line, why not give everyone a passing grade? It would also place too much emphasis on rote learning methods of memorization, which de-emphasizes creative thinking, a strength of our economy that's based so much on innovation.

Of course teachers need to be held accountable. My argument is that student outcomes is not an ideal way of doing so. I'm not sure what would be, either. It's hard to quantify.

DJ FC · 09-13-2012, 03:39 PM

Juking the Stats - YouTube

DDTempest · 09-13-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

That seems like really good money for nine months of work. Sometimes I wish I would have been a teacher.

I would be the kind of teacher that f3lix would hate bc I fucking hate kids.

Check into the cost of living in Chicago numbnuts. Hint: it's not Muncie.

As far as taking a job that pays less, yes they know the pay going into it, they also know the tenure & pension system as well ... when you change a job's compensation structure, people are going to be pissed.

09-11-2012, 11:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	Chicago Teacher's Strike This discussion is sure to piss some of you objectivist hyper-libertarian-types off. What are key issues in Chicago public school strike? – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

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09-11-2012, 01:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,113 Internets: 284753	I didn't read the article, but I'm going to guess that they want more money. They'll probably get it too since Chicago sucks more union dicks than anywhere else in the country, except maybe in the White House ever since Obama moved in. Where is he from again?

09-11-2012, 01:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	Doesn't really piss me off, it's part of the deal with public education.

09-11-2012, 05:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Teachers striking goes against everything they are supposed to stand for and is an embarrassment to teachers elsewhere. These new evaluation systems being put into place will get rid of the shitty teachers and I'm all for them. Fuck those who show up only for a paycheck when our future is in the hands of those more concerned about themselves in a selfless profession.

09-12-2012, 05:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	As a teacher, I can assure you that I've never met a good colleague who would strike. There's a difference between getting bum-fucked by your employer and crying that you are being held accountable to the point you decide to strike.

09-12-2012, 04:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Despite the teacher's union being the biggest in the country, no.

09-12-2012, 04:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 278288	Ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Union teachers don't consider you a "good" colleague?

09-13-2012, 05:33 AM	#16 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	The unions blocked them since their inception. Now that the union breakdown is occurring, teachers can be treated like employees of a business and don't have automatic job security, hence the major retirement numbers last year and coming over the next two years.

09-13-2012, 08:40 AM	#17 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,113 Internets: 284753	It's ridiculous that during a time when government spending and national debt are at all time highs and a time when millions of Americans are unemployed, these teachers would bitch and whine so much for more money that they'd strike.

09-13-2012, 09:14 AM	#19 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,113 Internets: 284753	First thing, if I signed up for a job knowing that it pays less than other jobs, I wouldn't bitch about getting paid less than other jobs. Second thing, you clearly have no idea how pension plans, particularly defined contribution plans, work.

09-13-2012, 11:04 AM	#22 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,113 Internets: 284753	That seems like really good money for nine months of work. Sometimes I wish I would have been a teacher. I would be the kind of teacher that f3lix would hate bc I fucking hate kids.

09-13-2012, 02:59 PM	#23 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Almost there... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,979 Internets: 161638	It's not as black and white as tweedledee and tweeldedum make it sound. Too many people think teachers are solely responsible for the grades their students get. That's reasonable, but only part of it. More important than anything when measuring the success of a child are their parents and how their household views education. Time and time again you see that the most successful kids are the ones whose parents hold them accountable, help them with their homework, make sure they're staying on track, and encourage them. For America it is a cultural problem. People look at school like day care these days. A lot of parent's don't want to raise their kids. This is a problem when we have a public education system that nobody wants to pay taxes for. Many opt for private or home school. Contrast this with a place like Asia that values education above all else and you see how fickle the American public is about schooling. On top of this, educators are not looked at like other professional careers, like a lawyer for example. Yet you need a master's to be a teacher, and make like, what, 1/4th of what other professions do? Another problem with basing a teacher's performance on student outcomes is that it gives teachers an incentive to give better grades than they normally would. If their job security is on the line, why not give everyone a passing grade? It would also place too much emphasis on rote learning methods of memorization, which de-emphasizes creative thinking, a strength of our economy that's based so much on innovation. Of course teachers need to be held accountable. My argument is that student outcomes is not an ideal way of doing so. I'm not sure what would be, either. It's hard to quantify.