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Old 07-18-2011, 10:00 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I've never met you, and I am swelling with pride.

Can I have some $$?
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:12 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I should be the one asking you that!
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Very impressive. Congratulations!
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:29 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Former Warsaw Man Makes Mark At World Series Of Poker - Times-Union Newspaper - Warsaw, IN - Warsaw, IN
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:59 PM   #55 (permalink)
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UB, how has the game change? I remember everyone started playing ultra tight, but now it seems as it's just about position.

Nubblies: If we put up with Felix, we will put up with you too.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:53 PM   #56 (permalink)
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It's always been about position; some just never cared to add that part to their game.

I love how your parents got labeled at the end, for so many reasons.
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:06 AM   #57 (permalink)
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UB came off as an outstanding American citizen in that article.

#YOLO
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:50 AM   #58 (permalink)
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QUESTIONS:

So you get like $55,000 in prize money ... how much of that do you have to pay in taxes? Is it up front? Do you still have people "investing" in your entry fee? If so, do they get their percentage pretax or post tax? Also, if you have investors, does that change the way you file it on your taxes?

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Old 07-19-2011, 08:01 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I'm very curious about this investing in your entry fee. I feel like "investing" = "gambling". But I don't know fuckall about gambling.
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:04 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDTempest View Post
QUESTIONS:

So you get like $55,000 in prize money ... how much of that do you have to pay in taxes? Is it up front? Do you still have people "investing" in your entry fee? If so, do they get their percentage pretax or post tax? Also, if you have investors, does that change the way you file it on your taxes?
Your tax burden is only on net winnings, so $45,000 in tax burden. No, it's not up front (ie: the casino does not withhold winnings). Investors get their cut pretax and are responsible for paying their own taxes on those winnings. And yes, that changes the way I file it on my taxes since I only pay taxes on the percentage of the winnings that I actually retained. It's actually a huge pain in the ass tax-wise, but I won't get into it because it's boring.


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I'm very curious about this investing in your entry fee. I feel like "investing" = "gambling". But I don't know fuckall about gambling.
Investing in me in a poker tournament isn't much different than buying a stock. Both are forms of gambling. Stocks just tend to be way less volatile. When you invest in someone in a poker tournament you're going to lose 100% of your investment a majority of the time but sometimes have a 20,000% return or something absurd. People who invested in me this year had about a 425% return.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:59 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard View Post
Investing in me in a poker tournament isn't much different than buying a stock. Both are forms of gambling. Stocks just tend to be way less volatile. When you invest in someone in a poker tournament you're going to lose 100% of your investment a majority of the time but sometimes have a 20,000% return or something absurd. People who invested in me this year had about a 425% return.
You are very wrong here.

Investing in UB is more like investing in a hedge fund.

Stocks can and do provide positive returns (In theory returning the risk-free rate, but in practice returning more than that). Poker is a negative-sum game.

I'm not saying that UB is a negative edge bet, just that if you invest in all stocks you will make a positive return whereas if you invest in all poker players you realize the inverse of the house edge or rake.


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Old 07-22-2011, 01:04 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Poker is not a sport.
Thank you
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:04 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Following UB on twitter live while he was playingwas pretty fun, he did a nice job of breaking down the action without being in love with explaining every move, while being entertaining at the same time. Was genuinely happy for him when he broke into the money.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:53 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
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if you invest in all stocks you will make a positive return
As long as you didn't do this from 2007-now or 2000-2002 or 1929-1936, etc, etc, etc, you are correct.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:19 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I believe he meant all stocks, as in every stock ever.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:10 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Yes and he's right. I think this got a little too nit-picky. My original point was just that buying action in someone in a poker tournament is gambling or risking money on something much like buying a stock is. One is just far more volatile and has negative sum components.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:28 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
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One is just far more volatile and has negative sum components.
You think buying stocks has negative sum components? Because betting on UB = clearly positive expected value.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:33 AM   #68 (permalink)
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I'm very sensitive to the investing=gambling mentality many people have today. They aren't the same thing at all.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:59 AM   #69 (permalink)
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#YOLO
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:42 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Lol they are EXACTLY the same thing. Every investment is a gamble. You are gambling on others being smart and productive during their working hours (among other factors) and not on the little steel ball to land on 11, but it's still gambling. I love when you get on your little Rand-ian high horse though FC. So cute!
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:15 PM   #71 (permalink)
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They aren't EXACTLY the same thing at all.

Both Investing and Gambling can involve risk, but Gambling necessarily requires risk whereas Investing doesn't necessarily require it. At the very, very least they are two different words with different connotations.

Gambling: Requires risk does not require expectation of positive return
Investing: Does not require risk (but is usally included nevertheless) requires expectation of positive return.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:54 PM   #72 (permalink)
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My point is just that everything requires risk. Everything is a gamble. When you buy GOOG, you're gambling that an asteroid doesn't slam into 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043. I understand that there are distinctions between putting $1000 in GOOG and putting $1000 on red at the roulette wheel, I'm obviously not dumb. I'm just trying to take you down a peg from your white knight high horse that investing and investors are some mystical group of superior people. I remember you once even suggested that people shouldn't be allowed to vote unless they have built up some net worth or something. LOL... preposterous. You and your people are not special.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:56 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I'm not suggesting anything like that at all. So fuck you.

All I'm saying is investing isn't the same as gambling.

By your logic playing a sport is gambling as it involves risk. In fact everything in the world is gambling since everything involves risk. So if you want to say that everything = gambling, I will agree that yes, investing is a subset of everything so therefore investing = gambling. The same way that eating a cheeseburger = gambling.

The real issue here is ironically what I was talking to DH about in another thread: the concept of "risk-free." The focus of an investment is the expected return with the risk as a consequence or by-product. In theory an investment can be "risk-free," and in practice a good deal are (government guarenteed overnight deposits are pretty damn close and essentially risk free). But even if an investment isn't risk free the risk isn't the defining characteristic of what makes an investment. The expected return is what defines an investment.

The focus of a gamble, however, is on the risk. A gamble must by definition include risk. And the expected return is a consequence of this risk, not the other way around. Risk defines a gamble. I hope I'm being clear with how I see the distinction.

And I have no fucking clue about investments so don't pretend like I'm trying to be above you. That's not the issue. A simple logical distinction is.


The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

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