[03-27-2020 02:28 PM] Dent: The trouble is that many now use 'physicalism' to mean the view Strawson call 'physics-alism', ie the view that the nature or essence of all concrete reality can in principle be fully captured in the terms of physics [03-27-2020 02:29 PM] Dent: Oxford English Dictionary definition takes panpsychism to be a form of materialism: panpsychism is ‘the theory or belief that there is an element of consciousness in all matter’. I wonder if there is unclarity about this. I think there is. [03-27-2020 02:33 PM] Dent: Anyway i'm a monist and pretty much always have been, and a realist about qualia/experience which I haven't always been. But I normally say that materialism is false if by materialism you mean that reality is composed of non-phenomenal stuff. [03-27-2020 02:34 PM] Dent: I thought you introduced me to Donald Hoffman who i've paid some attention to lately... but a search for the name here yields nothing [03-27-2020 03:03 PM] Dent: We're going to get to paradise through competitive status-seeking autistic males having so much left over that they can give their worst enemy a great life and still have no fear of being caught up with [03-27-2020 03:03 PM] Dent: Zero-sum competition for attention and recognition is a serious problem you touch on though.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy [03-27-2020 03:29 PM] Mr. Blonde: Yeah the cocky prick assessment was coming a little tongue-in-cheek, I could only even name such an embodied archetype by having inhabited it myself for so long and am now, somewhat unskillfully, enjoying the ever-increasing freedom of truthfully facing, identifying and naming my own neuroses in order to be free of them. Which is my hope for other humans as well. [03-27-2020 03:33 PM] Mr. Blonde: On a more sincere note, I'm coming from the perspective that Reality itself exists, and has existed for much longer than the ability of the human rational mind to be able to not only name, categorize, and assess reality correctly, and indeed, Reality itself exists independent of the thought structures (using language and other forms of categorization and communication) human beings have come up with to try to describe it. This is why things like beauty, especially -- not just the beauty of that other-sexed primate you want to fuck -- the beauty of the natural world, the beauty of music, the beauty of symmetry etc. etc. is completely unaddressed, or, if addressed, totally minimized in importance by the minds of men who try to use the scientific method or European philosophy to assess and understand the total Mystery of Being (i.e. the fact that you exist in such a plenum of wonder and beauty). [03-27-2020 03:52 PM] Dent: A theory that includes value would be particularly illuminating [03-27-2020 04:09 PM] Mr. Blonde: Is value not subjective? [03-28-2020 07:31 AM] Dent: Not sure what you're getting at and I don't want to go off on a big spiel of steps and assumptions that I want you to follow... [03-28-2020 07:31 AM] Dent: the intrinsic self-intimating value of first-person pain and pleasure is culturally and species invariant, the same opioid-dopamine signalling systems are found in invertebrates and humans. The subjective intrinsic value of agony and bliss aren't dependant on anything external to the experience [03-28-2020 07:40 AM] Dent: I have a bit of an issue with the "of" bit of this under the assumptions I make.. and i'm pulling my hair out trying to explain myself - "not just the beauty of that other-sexed primate you want to fuck -- the beauty of the natural world, the beauty of music, the beauty of symmetry etc" [03-28-2020 07:45 AM] Dent: If you're dreaming then we know this magical ability of one thing somehow referring to another "of" doesn't exist, when we're awake for some reason we think it does. the other-sexed primate, the natural world, the music, the symmetry is internal to you.. it doesn't refer to anything outside of what you're experiencing. beauty/pleasure or whatever isn't something attached to an apparently external object that you can refer to, it seems intrinsic.. yeah messed this one up [03-28-2020 07:46 AM] Dent: https://www.quora.com/What-is-consid...dox-to-explain [03-28-2020 07:52 AM] Dent: Dunno what my point is exactly, but you'll probably agree that the dreamed-up other-sexed primate is just as beautiful as the "real" one [03-28-2020 08:55 AM] Dent: fuck [03-28-2020 11:00 AM] Dent: Nevermind that anyway, the Paradise Engineering project continues.. for a while now a Brit named Jo Cameron has been the example we use to demonstrate that it's possible to live a normal average life without experiencing the full spectrum of nasty feelings that nature throws up [03-28-2020 11:01 AM] Dent: But she's just one lady and skeptics can always come up with some reason why the genes that give her a charmed life can't be adopted by all [03-28-2020 11:03 AM] Dent: I want to explore whether a population can exist with elevated well-being, take a functioning population (w/e that means.. its just a population that ain't dying off anytime soon) and ratchet up their well-being genetically, and see if they all die off. I think this is needed as a first proof-of-concept to turn this project into something other than idle philosophical speculation [03-28-2020 11:05 AM] Dent: Then I guess ramp up to more complex populations and eventually people are like "yeah ok this probably would work on earth let's give it a shot" [03-28-2020 11:06 AM] Dent: Happens to be the 1 year anniversary of this news piece on Jo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...lands-47719718 [03-28-2020 11:07 AM] Dent: You can tell that she has amazing orgasms from the pic [03-28-2020 02:40 PM] Mr. Blonde: In my humble opinion your (and most people's) unconsciousness of class dynamics is often a big missing ingredient from these discussions. If people start existing with elevated well being (aka are no longer caught in a hellscape of confused existence carrying the burden of their existential "Dasein" to quote Heidegger, one of the first things they will do is look at the people who have more resources than the rest of the population and start questioning how exactly that dynamic fits into this utopia you are trying to create. [03-28-2020 03:13 PM] Dent: = why i'm defending the massive ego males that seem to be doing good by peacocking and don't really have any plans for ridding the world of capitalism? [03-28-2020 03:15 PM] Dent: Trying to convince people that there's no such thing as identity over time and so on and truely rational people would consider all future states and treat them equally hasn't worked well for me so far, it's really very adaptive to think that you're the centre of the universe and no one has offered up their partner for me to have a go on. [03-28-2020 03:16 PM] Dent: Oh I remember what I wanted to say.. even in heaven there is a pecking order.. [03-28-2020 03:18 PM] Dent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelology [03-28-2020 04:39 PM] Dent: https://i.imgur.com/RlKQreH.jpg [03-28-2020 10:50 PM] Mr. Blonde: You have a confused mind. I'll pray for you. [03-28-2020 11:01 PM] Orgazmo: <3 <3 <3 [03-29-2020 12:44 AM] Mr. Blonde: "When the self is understood as relational, interdependent, even inter-existent, then it bleeds over into the other, and the other bleeds over into the self. Understanding the self as a locus of consciousness in a matrix of relationship, one no longer searches for an enemy as the key to understanding every problem, but looks instead for imbalances in relationships. The War on Death gives way to the quest to live well and fully, and we see that fear of death is actually fear of life. How much of life will we forego to stay safe?" [03-29-2020 12:45 AM] Mr. Blonde: ~ Charles Eisenstein [03-29-2020 04:31 AM] Dent: Ur the one mad in the ed [03-31-2020 02:41 PM] Johnny Richter: I’m bored as hell, Gaz is PS VR worth it? Thinking about getting it to pass the time. [03-31-2020 02:44 PM] Dent: I am watching episode 4 of tiger king [03-31-2020 03:56 PM] Orgazmo: PS VR: It's mindblowing, but I haven't touched mine in 1yr+. It's just too much of a hassle to pick up and use, especially in my setup where all the components are hidden away (it's wired). I do definitely think you could get yourself totally immersed and even use it as a quasi-workout, though. [03-31-2020 03:56 PM] Orgazmo: Tiger King: I finished the binge last night. Good shit man. It's nuts that these people actually exist. [03-31-2020 04:37 PM] Johnny Richter: Yeah it’s pretty pricey for something I might not use much once this shit is over. Guess I’ll just watch Tiger King [04-01-2020 01:40 PM] BigDongedHoe: Tiger King is incredible. How one show can include big cat ownership, polygamy, murder, murder for hire, homosexuality, loss of limbs, and politics is astounding. [04-01-2020 01:41 PM] BigDongedHoe: Also, Carole Baskin's case has been re-opened from the documentary. God Bless America. [04-01-2020 02:39 PM] Orgazmo: The truly beautiful thing about Tiger King is the way they tell the story. So many moments of watching, thinking "holy shit, how is this real?" and then BAM, a whole fucking new level of crazy is introduced completely out of left field. Truly a fantastic series. [04-01-2020 07:59 PM] Johnny Richter: Watched the first two eps, I couldn’t give a fuck less about these degenerates. Don’t get the appeal. [04-01-2020 09:13 PM] Orgazmo: No intrigue? Interesting. [04-02-2020 01:45 PM] BigDongedHoe: When I saw a gay polygamist marriage in episode 2. I knew this was something I wanted to see through to completion [04-02-2020 05:43 PM] Johnny Richter: Don’t Fuck With Cats was a lot better imho [04-03-2020 01:33 PM] Dent: You haven't even seen it all, I preferred Tiger. [04-03-2020 05:01 PM] Johnny Richter: You just want to gurgle Joe Exotic’s nuts [Yesterday 03:34 PM] Dent: This is the dawning of the age of the Hockey Stick [Today 05:10 AM] Dent: If bored wash hands