RIP America - Nubblies.net Forums

DJ FC · 08-07-2011, 03:26 PM

This thread is to commemorate the glory days gone by of the unique experiment that was the United States of America.
Within a handful of days we saw the demise of two Great American things: our ambitions to explore outer space, and our AAA credit rating.
10 years ago nobody would have thought it likely to see these two bastions of what is good and right about America disappear. Many would have called it impossible. In fact many of the things which once made America great are fading during our lifetime and often without even great objection.
It's a sad, sad story.
But, as with those who lived in Rome before the fall, I'm terrifically happy to have seen it. We've been front-row to one of the greatest shows Earth has put on. Granted we caught the tail end, but we saw it nevertheless.

Ugly Bastard · 08-07-2011, 03:51 PM

Tremendous post. I couldn't agree more about America's best days being behind her. There are just so many negative economic factors in play, it's hard for me to imagine America ever having as good of an economy in our lifetimes as the ones we've already seen.

The only way this will not hold true is in the event of some type of total system overhaul. It's really hard to envision a revolution of that capacity taking place.

Repugnant Abomination · 08-07-2011, 04:06 PM

I recommend reading The post American World, by Fareed Zakaria. It has helped me tremendously in understanding the massive shifts that are taking place in the world.

angry pancake · 08-07-2011, 04:50 PM

The sky is not falling.

Ugly Bastard · 08-07-2011, 05:13 PM

FC, you should buy this. I would fucking love to, but a bit out of my range atm. It's a $20 bill from 1928, the last year that our currency was anchored to the gold standard (after that, we switched to bills like this one which were backed by various regional federal reserve branches, as noted on the bill).

1928 $20 Twenty dollars Gold certificate note coin bill | eBay

angry pancake · 08-07-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

FC, you should buy this. I would fucking love to, but a bit out of my range atm. It's a $20 bill from 1928, the last year that our currency was anchored to the gold standard (after that, we switched to bills like this one which were backed by various regional federal reserve branches, as noted on the bill).

1928 $20 Twenty dollars Gold certificate note coin bill | eBay

Am I wrong for thinking a $20 gold certificate from 1928 is worth $20 as a currency in 2011? I think they're still legal tender, but for a long time they were not. AP might be off base here.

Ugly Bastard · 08-07-2011, 06:47 PM

I was wondering earlier myself if they are legal tender or if their trading value is based solely on their intrinsic value as a piece of history.

f3lix · 08-07-2011, 07:51 PM

I've been saying the American empire would end in our lifetime since I was in high school.

DDTempest · 08-07-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

I've been saying the American empire would end in our lifetime since I was in high school.

The prosecution would like to point out that you are a fucking chimp. You can't take both sides of an issue and then claim "I fucking called it"

Exhibit A:

Now, given your tendency to try playing lawyer lately, you can skip the song and dance about the space program weighing in your decision to make the above "I called it"

The prosecution rests.

ninjaface · 08-07-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

I was wondering earlier myself if they are legal tender or if their trading value is based solely on their intrinsic value as a piece of history.

As legal tender, if it can still be used, it would be worth $20. The value to a collector could be much higher.

Ugly Bastard · 08-07-2011, 09:30 PM

Right. What I'm saying is: if one of them sells for $65, does that put the intrinsic value of the bill at $65 or $45?

This leads me to believe that not only are they still valid currency, but that you can actually redeem them for $20 worth of gold from federal reserve.

Quote:

1928: Switched to a small-sized note with a portrait of Andrew Jackson on the face and the south view of the White House on the reverse. The banknote is redeemable in gold or silver (at the bearer's discretion) at any Federal Reserve Bank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ty-dollar_bill

I would really love to own one of these:

f3lix · 08-07-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDTempest

The prosecution would like to point out that you are a fucking chimp. You can't take both sides of an issue and then claim "I fucking called it"

Exhibit A:

Now, given your tendency to try playing lawyer lately, you can skip the song and dance about the space program weighing in your decision to make the above "I called it"

The prosecution rests.

DDT, you are arguing two different things. Figure out what you are trying to say and try again.

DDTempest · 08-07-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

DDT, you are arguing two different things. Figure out what you are trying to say and try again.

What two things am I arguing exactly? I said that you are a fucking chimp because you decided to claim that America is now a defunct empire after the credit rating downgrade where you had previously stated there would be no impact from our nation's credit rating being downgraded ... whats the confusion?

angry pancake · 08-08-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

But that you can actually redeem them for $20 worth of gold from federal reserve.

This is not true. Nixon killed this in 1971.

What appear to be a very little known fact. The U.S. was on the Gold Standard for maybe 30 years total in its history. It was brought on to help insure against the great depression (late 19th century) from happening again. Some economists have said that the gold standard in Great Britain and the U.S. helped prolong the second great depression.

angry pancake · 08-08-2011, 10:54 AM

On the lighter side, been trying to get Mrs. Pancake into see a doc today. Her PCP can't see her for another 2 weeks. Another place she used to go can't get her in until 3 weeks. The place I go can't get to new patients until October. Very Canadian, but considerably more expensive.

f3lix · 08-08-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDTempest

What two things am I arguing exactly? I said that you are a fucking chimp because you decided to claim that America is now a defunct empire after the credit rating downgrade where you had previously stated there would be no impact from our nation's credit rating being downgraded ... whats the confusion?

Nothing did happen on August 2nd. The stock market DROPPED the day the big bad debt ceiling was settled. I've been saying for years on this site that we can't continue on our current course and even just quoted myself again in the investments thread blaming our politicians for it all. To further prove my point, we settled the debt ceiling problem and our credit rating dropped anyway. Don't you get it? It didn't matter. We are broke. Soon, our creditors will come calling and we'll have to cut our entitlement programs and since we've become an entitlement society, we won't give those up. I really think this will all lead to the U.S. either becoming an isolated country with few to no financial allies or we will go to war with China over all of this when we just decide to say "Fuck you, we aren't paying."

DJ FC · 08-08-2011, 04:50 PM

It would appear that other countries are far more fucked than the US. In fact it's possible that 100% debt to GDP may be possible and in fact the norm. Japan is over 200% and chugging along just fine.

List of sovereign states by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DJ FC · 08-08-2011, 04:52 PM

Now, back on topic. As this thread is to commemorate the good which has passed and not the crap that we have now.

Maybe this will inspire some people:

‪Wolfgang Gartner - Illmerica (OFFICIAL VIDEO)‬&rlm; - YouTube

Saint DH · 08-08-2011, 07:33 PM

I think this is overly dramatic. We didn't cut the space program, we cut the shuttle program. For now, I say good. The economic environment of this country has really sucked for about four years now. It's expensive to send people into space. Space is a miserable, unforgiving slut of never-ending proportions. Let's just focus our attention on sending unmanned vessels into the vastness. Vessels that can do anything a manned shuttle can do and more. A satellite can go further and is more resistant to the extreme conditions of outer space. All for a fraction of the cost.

Saint DH · 08-08-2011, 07:43 PM

I should add this qualifying statement. I say good "for now" because eventually I would like to continue sending astronauts into space. That is, when we find a reason to send people out there.

I would hope that cutting the shuttle program only included actually sending astronauts into space. If NASA is no longer doing research on new shuttle technologies and training astronauts, then this is a terrible tragedy. My point is that, until we find a better method of sending manned shuttles to space, we shouldn't be sending them. We should absolutely be researching better ways to send humans into space.

Ugly Bastard · 08-08-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ FC

Japan is over 200% and chugging along just fine.

LOL, they are?!? Take a peak at the Japanese stock market over the past 20 years.

DDTempest · 08-08-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

We are broke. Soon, our creditors will come calling and we'll have to cut our entitlement programs and since we've become an entitlement society, we won't give those up. I really think this will all lead to the U.S. either becoming an isolated country with few to no financial allies or we will go to war with China over all of this when we just decide to say "Fuck you, we aren't paying."

Also I clarified that lawyering "nothing happened on August 2nd" is a cop out ... you're a fucking chimp.

thekremlin · 08-09-2011, 12:42 AM

Last night the London riots spread to south london. A department store in battersea, where I live, was busted open and ransacked. Our gym closed early and we were all advised to walk home in groups.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Ugly Bastard · 08-09-2011, 01:09 AM

Cliff notes on why there are riots please.

thekremlin · 08-09-2011, 01:16 AM

Not really a good answer to that. Someone got shot by a cop last thursday in tottenham (N. London,) there was a peaceful demonstration that got out of hand sunday, now the rest of the city is taking the opportunity to cause some havok. But it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with the thing in tottenham, people just want an excuse to riot. Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here, it's getting harder and harder and harder each and every year.

SittinOnDubsWGW · 08-09-2011, 01:33 AM

I want to riot.

thekremlin · 08-09-2011, 07:38 AM

Odds that FC's Jeep gets jacked tonight?

DJ FC · 08-09-2011, 07:54 AM

Please direct this garbage to the London riot thread.

Another thing America has kicked ass for a long time: Hollywood.

Saint DH · 08-09-2011, 09:30 AM

Until the god damn Jews ruined everything. Today, imo, Hollywood is one of the things wrong with America.

DDTempest · 08-09-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Until the god damn Jews ruined everything. Today, imo, Hollywood is one of the things wrong with America.

So you don't like TV or movies?

thekremlin · 08-09-2011, 10:49 AM

People have been saying "SNL isn't as good as it used to be" every season since the second.

Saint DH · 08-09-2011, 10:50 AM

I like both. I know what he meant and I agree completely.

SinisterKid · 08-10-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

I think this is overly dramatic. We didn't cut the space program, we cut the shuttle program. For now, I say good. The economic environment of this country has really sucked for about four years now. It's expensive to send people into space. Space is a miserable, unforgiving slut of never-ending proportions. Let's just focus our attention on sending unmanned vessels into the vastness. Vessels that can do anything a manned shuttle can do and more. A satellite can go further and is more resistant to the extreme conditions of outer space. All for a fraction of the cost.

We cut the shuttle program only to pursue the new shuttle program. My employer received quite a large contract to develop the new "shuttle." To me, this is a good sign for the US; a willingness to innovate. Other facets of our culture, industrial base, and economy need to follow suit.

SNC - Sierra Nevada Corporation | SNC News

Saint DH · 08-10-2011, 06:12 PM

That's awesome, and it's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see.

Cocktooth · 08-10-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Until the god damn Jews ruined everything. Today, imo, Hollywood is one of the things wrong with America.

The days I went through life angry were some of the worst. Look at the cup 1/2 full. Does wonders for your overall attitude!

Saint DH · 08-10-2011, 10:14 PM

Is the American Dream still alive?

Beebs · 08-11-2011, 11:46 PM

I would say the actual downgrade isn't a huge deal, other than symbolically; with downgrading private debt, there can be some surprising information or at least surprising to the average investor. With government debt, everything I can think of is out in the open, and most of it is getting heavy play with the 24 hr news cycle of the modern day.

Hard to call any one point the high-point of American culture: first what metric are we using? The 20s were glamorous but we were not a world superpower until WWII. The 60s were artistically rich, but social ills were pretty rampant. The economy is fried at the moment, but the way technology is making information and communication mind-blowingly easy and interesting makes it hard to feel poor at times.

I don't think anybody ever correctly calls the end of an era right as it's happening; obviously if it is constantly said, then they will eventually be right, but there is a lack of insight as to where an when until after the fact.

I don't think it's the death of American culture, because for the most part, I think time will reveal that happened a decade or more ago with the homogenization into something that can broadly be defined as "Western" civilization, both with the Americanization of many parts of the world, and the breaking down of traditional impediments to global ideas and norms.

f3lix · 08-12-2011, 08:16 AM

Strolling around in Vegas in 2007-2008 UB and I went calling Bubble on the city and economy for the complete lack of recognizing all of it was unsustainable.

SittinOnDubsWGW · 08-12-2011, 03:44 PM

Goddamn dude, good job, you fucking knew it. Atta kid for being able to say "i told you so."

Cocktooth · 08-12-2011, 03:51 PM

You forgot to add a (10) to that dubs.

DJ FC · 08-12-2011, 11:23 PM

If it weren't for Club -69000 I'd pos rep you for that (0)

08-07-2011, 03:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	RIP America This thread is to commemorate the glory days gone by of the unique experiment that was the United States of America. Within a handful of days we saw the demise of two Great American things: our ambitions to explore outer space, and our AAA credit rating. 10 years ago nobody would have thought it likely to see these two bastions of what is good and right about America disappear. Many would have called it impossible. In fact many of the things which once made America great are fading during our lifetime and often without even great objection. It's a sad, sad story. But, as with those who lived in Rome before the fall, I'm terrifically happy to have seen it. We've been front-row to one of the greatest shows Earth has put on. Granted we caught the tail end, but we saw it nevertheless.
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

08-08-2011, 04:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	It would appear that other countries are far more fucked than the US. In fact it's possible that 100% debt to GDP may be possible and in fact the norm. Japan is over 200% and chugging along just fine. List of sovereign states by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

08-09-2011, 07:54 AM	#28 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	Please direct this garbage to the London riot thread. Another thing America has kicked ass for a long time: Hollywood.
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

08-12-2011, 03:51 PM	#40 (permalink)
Cocktooth Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warsaw Posts: 4,220 Internets: 124047	You forgot to add a (10) to that dubs.
	Nubblies: If we put up with Felix, we will put up with you too.

08-12-2011, 11:23 PM	#41 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	If it weren't for Club -69000 I'd pos rep you for that (0)
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

08-07-2011, 03:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Tremendous post. I couldn't agree more about America's best days being behind her. There are just so many negative economic factors in play, it's hard for me to imagine America ever having as good of an economy in our lifetimes as the ones we've already seen. The only way this will not hold true is in the event of some type of total system overhaul. It's really hard to envision a revolution of that capacity taking place.

08-07-2011, 04:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Almost there... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,979 Internets: 164547	I recommend reading The post American World, by Fareed Zakaria. It has helped me tremendously in understanding the massive shifts that are taking place in the world.

08-07-2011, 05:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	FC, you should buy this. I would fucking love to, but a bit out of my range atm. It's a $20 bill from 1928, the last year that our currency was anchored to the gold standard (after that, we switched to bills like this one which were backed by various regional federal reserve branches, as noted on the bill). 1928 $20 Twenty dollars Gold certificate note coin bill \| eBay

08-07-2011, 06:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	I was wondering earlier myself if they are legal tender or if their trading value is based solely on their intrinsic value as a piece of history.

08-07-2011, 07:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	I've been saying the American empire would end in our lifetime since I was in high school.

08-08-2011, 07:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,147 Internets: 284753	I think this is overly dramatic. We didn't cut the space program, we cut the shuttle program. For now, I say good. The economic environment of this country has really sucked for about four years now. It's expensive to send people into space. Space is a miserable, unforgiving slut of never-ending proportions. Let's just focus our attention on sending unmanned vessels into the vastness. Vessels that can do anything a manned shuttle can do and more. A satellite can go further and is more resistant to the extreme conditions of outer space. All for a fraction of the cost.

08-08-2011, 07:43 PM	#20 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,147 Internets: 284753	I should add this qualifying statement. I say good "for now" because eventually I would like to continue sending astronauts into space. That is, when we find a reason to send people out there. I would hope that cutting the shuttle program only included actually sending astronauts into space. If NASA is no longer doing research on new shuttle technologies and training astronauts, then this is a terrible tragedy. My point is that, until we find a better method of sending manned shuttles to space, we shouldn't be sending them. We should absolutely be researching better ways to send humans into space.

08-09-2011, 12:42 AM	#23 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	Last night the London riots spread to south london. A department store in battersea, where I live, was busted open and ransacked. Our gym closed early and we were all advised to walk home in groups. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

08-09-2011, 01:09 AM	#24 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Cliff notes on why there are riots please.

08-09-2011, 01:16 AM	#25 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	Not really a good answer to that. Someone got shot by a cop last thursday in tottenham (N. London,) there was a peaceful demonstration that got out of hand sunday, now the rest of the city is taking the opportunity to cause some havok. But it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with the thing in tottenham, people just want an excuse to riot. Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here, it's getting harder and harder and harder each and every year.

08-09-2011, 01:33 AM	#26 (permalink)
SittinOnDubsWGW I make bad decisions. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Desert Posts: 3,018 Internets: 108015	I want to riot.

08-09-2011, 07:38 AM	#27 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	Odds that FC's Jeep gets jacked tonight?

08-09-2011, 09:30 AM	#29 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,147 Internets: 284753	Until the god damn Jews ruined everything. Today, imo, Hollywood is one of the things wrong with America.

08-09-2011, 10:49 AM	#31 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	People have been saying "SNL isn't as good as it used to be" every season since the second.

08-09-2011, 10:50 AM	#32 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,147 Internets: 284753	I like both. I know what he meant and I agree completely.

08-10-2011, 06:12 PM	#34 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,147 Internets: 284753	That's awesome, and it's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see.

08-10-2011, 10:14 PM	#36 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,147 Internets: 284753	Is the American Dream still alive?

08-11-2011, 11:46 PM	#37 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	I would say the actual downgrade isn't a huge deal, other than symbolically; with downgrading private debt, there can be some surprising information or at least surprising to the average investor. With government debt, everything I can think of is out in the open, and most of it is getting heavy play with the 24 hr news cycle of the modern day. Hard to call any one point the high-point of American culture: first what metric are we using? The 20s were glamorous but we were not a world superpower until WWII. The 60s were artistically rich, but social ills were pretty rampant. The economy is fried at the moment, but the way technology is making information and communication mind-blowingly easy and interesting makes it hard to feel poor at times. I don't think anybody ever correctly calls the end of an era right as it's happening; obviously if it is constantly said, then they will eventually be right, but there is a lack of insight as to where an when until after the fact. I don't think it's the death of American culture, because for the most part, I think time will reveal that happened a decade or more ago with the homogenization into something that can broadly be defined as "Western" civilization, both with the Americanization of many parts of the world, and the breaking down of traditional impediments to global ideas and norms.

08-12-2011, 08:16 AM	#38 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Strolling around in Vegas in 2007-2008 UB and I went calling Bubble on the city and economy for the complete lack of recognizing all of it was unsustainable.

08-12-2011, 03:44 PM	#39 (permalink)
SittinOnDubsWGW I make bad decisions. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Desert Posts: 3,018 Internets: 108015	Goddamn dude, good job, you fucking knew it. Atta kid for being able to say "i told you so."

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