You all need to understand something....

Well you can't 'have' zen anywhere. But two of the ideas represented, the imperfections of the real world and happiness gained from shutting out our misconseptions of the world are very central to a zen philosophy, that's all.

If you've studdied it, then you should know that I cannot express it adequately in words.

[bloodyfart]

"Zen Buddhism is essentially what you are all getting at"

that is what you said in that thread, and i am saying that you didnt say anything zen except the word.

beyond that, zen can be explained in words. the only thing that most zen practicioners refrain from trying to express in words is nirvana because it is like trying to explain the taste of an orange to someone who has never tasted one. moreover, practicioners believe that anyone who describes such an event is being arrogant and has most likely not experienced it.

lol at if i had studied it. i got my degree in college in religion with an emphasis in buddhism. dont talk down to people before you know who you are talking to.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally posted by bloodyfart:
dont talk down to people before you know who you are talking to.

A-fucking-men. You're such a hipocrite.

I wasn't talking down to you, I was asking for agreement. You really are on edge a lot aren't you?

Edit: we are beating around the bush here. Two concepts were brought up (allthough they are related)

1) That trying to bring perfections into the relm of the physical world is inhearantly impossible

and

2) That focussing inward rather than worrying about the outside world can end suffering.

I would like to know if, in your oppinion, these 2 themes are common among Zen Buddhism.

I do not have a degree in Buddhism, but I am interested. I have read "The Way of Zen" and "Tao, The Watercourse Way," by Alan Watts, which I believe to be 2 of the most respected Western works on the subject. All I really have formally is a completed minor in philosophy, but I don't think this helps me much with these discussions.

[ April 21, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: DJ FC ]

[bloodyfart]

"which I believe to be 2 of the most respected Western works on the subject."

there is no overarching set of books that are respected by all. even within zen, there are different schools. each school has its own author to draw students in via books. thus, no one could really say that there are a certain set of books that everyone holds up as great. rinzai practicioners have their preferred writers, as do soto practioners.

i would say that overall, the most commonly known and most respected buddhist writer are the dalai lama (tibetan and not zen) and thich nhat hanh (vietnamese and has his own branch of buddhism he likes to call the unified church which mostly follows the soto school of zen).

I understand that there is no common consensus.

Nevertheless, academic respect does exist, and Alan Watts is a Westerner, which makes him easier to understand to a lay-person.

[bloodyfart]

there are many great western buddhist writers

charlotte joko beck
cheri hubber
steve hagen
pema chodron (one of my favorites, though she is a tibetan buddhist)
lama surya das (a tibetan also)

come to mind immediately

and the academic study of zen is much different than what you want. others that are respected academically are usually those that study the religion from an outsiders perspective and comment. they are not practicioners or monks.

[Carnivorous Flavor]

would one of you just bend over already?

[bloodyfart]

then youd get jealous