Another Religious Thread - Athism As Irrational As Christianity?

[Ugly Bastard]

Fair enough.

[Cocktooth]

Originally Posted by AcTivE

I can prove it (well I can't, but you know what I'm saying).

Welp, that pretty much somes it up from here folks.

[AcTivE]

I don't see how that sums it up. All I'm saying is I don't have the power, but God listens when it is sincere and something that will benefit his 'Kingdom'

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by AcTivE

I didn't do it everyday, but about 3 days out of the week, and I was up to 900mg (find a calc, and thats 2,400 vicodin in one day).

Completely irrelevant to the discussion, but its closer to 90-180 5mg vic's.

http://www.musc.edu/pharmacyservices...rsionChart.pdf

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by AcTivE

...kept reading more. Can that teapot hear your thoughts and respond in real time to what you are asking for? God is ALIVE. He hears me and my point of view, and he hears you and your point of view. All I'm waiting for is for a positive response from you (as I believe I'm in a relationship with him based on past events), or him to tell me to stop, because now is not the right time.

If I believed 100% that that Teapot was God or represented one, yes, I think it could. All i'd have to do is open up a teapot catalogue and be shown the way of teapot religion, or open up my cupboard and see my teapot there and it would truly be a sign from a diety.


Go.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Active, all you've done is side step the issue. We're not interested in your highly subjective experiences where you hit rock bottom and think that God brought you back up. That, frankly, is fucking retarded, and a piss poor argument. Either PROVE God exists, or admit you can't. If you can't prove he exists, then why the hell are we even having this "debate"? You might as well be trying to prove that Elfs exist for all I care, it's pretty much the same thing at this point.

[StabMaster Arson]

Originally Posted by AcTivE

What makes me want to believe in God? I hit rock bottom, and thats when my parents said you need to turn to God. So I challenged him. I said--if you are going to show yourself, now better be it. And I've been hardcore since then...I was addicted to morphine, hardcore, basically was very close to being a junkie.

Weak people tend to cling to anything that will give them an altered state of perception, be that drug induced or from believing an outdated, prescriptive, dogmatic system of beliefs. By giving up pills in favor of scripture, you've traded one crutch in favor of another. Notice how you even use the same adjective, you have been "hardcore" into both morphine and religion. Did you ever consider that you did what is best for you simply because it is just that? I realize that you need to think that there's some divine outside presence that pushed you into giving up all the bad shit in your life, that helped you overcome what you thought you never could on your own, but really think about it... it's like the kid in school that would do all the work for a group project only to let everyone take equal credit once it was turned in. Never underestimate the power of will.

I know it's scary to think that you are really alone, but it's fact... no one truly knows you, no one ever will... there's no omnipresent entity that's going to make itself available to you... you are working inside your own head. If you truly have a personal relationship w/ god, then why do you bother to read the bible or go to church... wouldn't you prefer to get the gospel straight from his lips rather than the latest bastardization of his word? Yet, when anyone does believe that they are getting the word of god directly to them, they are thought to be unorthodox or even extremist... think of the branch davidians or even back to the jim jones incident. Joining or converting to groups is natural, everyone wants to feel that they belong to something. Do you remember what you thought of the people in Waco when they were all over the news a few years ago? They were the weird, religious transients who got caught up under the spell of a very charismatic leader... much like the people who followed that one guy... shit, what's his name? oh yea, Jesus!

Imaginary friends are only cute when you're a child.

have any Nubblites taken the

blasphemy challenge?

blasphemy challenge?

?

[AcTivE]

Originally Posted by StabMaster Arson

Weak people tend to cling to anything that will give them an altered state of perception, be that drug induced or from believing an outdated, prescriptive, dogmatic system of beliefs.

I agree.

...

Matthew 10:39

'If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give it up for me, you will find it.'

Jesus points to YOU btw. He even says himself that YOU will do far greater things than I have.

[ninjaface]

Originally Posted by AcTivE

I agree.

...

THEN I CONTINUE TO CLING TO RELIGION, WHICH GIVES ME AN ALTERED STATE OF PERCEPTION.

I fixed that for you, active.

[AcTivE]

fixed it for yourself?

if you do, then you are on to something, continue on..make sure you don't place a label on what 'religion' is from this world, though.

[AcTivE]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

If I believed 100% that that Teapot was God or represented one, yes, I think it could. All i'd have to do is open up a teapot catalogue and be shown the way of teapot religion, or open up my cupboard and see my teapot there and it would truly be a sign from a diety.


Go.

If a teapot is your God, then yes, that will work. Amazing isn't it?

[Mr. Blonde]

"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument."

William G. McAdoo

[AcTivE]

[Repugnant Abomination]

I'm still waiting for you to prove it, Active, the same way I can prove there is a force we call gravity, which makes something fall to the ground when you drop it.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

I would like to see your proof of gravity.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Sure thing. All you have to do is climb a really tall building and then jump off. Go ahead, go test it.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

That doesn't prove anything.

LOLOL. Are you saying there is some kind of "invisible force" that controls our bodies?

[Repugnant Abomination]

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Is that a fucking orc?

Anyways, asking Active to prove God exists is pointless. It's impossible to prove and it's not even falsifiable. You can look only look at the evidence that exists and decide whether there is enough evidence that supports it for you to believe it. If the Bible and stories about praying to God about heroine addiction aren't enough evidence for you then so be it, but Active has no more obligation to prove God exist to believe in him than you are obligated to disprove God to not believe in him.

You also can't prove gravity exists either, the idea of gravity is based on a theory. I could propose a theory that the reason things fall is that God pushes you down to the ground. Your example of proving gravity would be just like if I held things up in the air and dropped them, saying, "see, I told you God pushes everything down to the ground."

but I personally like the theory of relativity better.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

Anyways, asking Active to prove God exists is pointless. It's impossible to prove and it's not even falsifiable. You can look only look at the evidence that exists and decide whether there is enough evidence that supports it for you to believe it. If the Bible and stories about praying to God about heroine addiction aren't enough evidence for you then so be it, but Active has no more obligation to prove God exist to believe in him than you are obligated to disprove God to not believe in him.

The whole conversation we're having is Active saying there is a God. After saying something like that, most people will require proof. And no, since he made the claim that God exists, it is his obligation to prove it, not my obligation to disprove it.

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

You also can't prove gravity exists either, the idea of gravity is based on a theory. I could propose a theory that the reason things fall is that God pushes you down to the ground. Your example of proving gravity would be just like if I held things up in the air and dropped them, saying, "see, I told you God pushes everything down to the ground."

You can call gravity what ever you want, the point is, is that we can all witness it and verify it exists. Now sure, it gets tricky is if someone says "well that's God doing it" or whatever. But then you can extend that argument, as most religious people do, and attribute everything to God. And while nobody can disprove it, they can't prove it either. So you have a point there. I for one though think it's a silly point. Since God, according to texts, has a body, and a spirit, we should be able to verify God by sight - not his creations, but God himself. You think somebody would have caught that bastard on camera by now.

[Mr. Blonde]

Turning this thread into a slightly different direction, there is a fantasy movie coming out next month called "The Golden Compass", which, while probably themed more towards the demographic of children, still looks pretty cool to me, because I like fantasy shit. It looked a lot like Chronicles of Narnia, which I never saw (partly because of the religious significance attached to it during promotion), but obviously read when I was younger. I mentioned how I wanted to see this movie, and she said it got "bad reviews". I asked her to explain and she forwarded me the following email. I have yet to read the entire Snopes article, but wanted to post it. Right now, i'm pretty pissed off with the direction the fucking Christians are taking this, God-killing books or not.




I haven’t seen anything on TV about this movie yet, but it doesn’t sound like a good one to me. Kim





Subject: The Golden Compass Movie is very disturbing… please read and pass on




I just read the Snopes article, and this is definitely worth passing around. It’s very disturbing. Trust me, this one is well worth spreading. Read the short description then click the link below.

You may already know about the kids movie coming out in December starring Nicole Kidman. It's called The Golden Compass, and while it will be a watered down version, it is based on a series of children's books about killing God. (It is the anti-Narnia.) Please follow this link and then pass it on. From what I understand, the hope is to get a lot of kids to see the movie - which won't seem too bad - and then get the parents to buy the books for their kids for Christmas. The quotes from the author sum it all up. I hope it totally bombs because we were all paying attention!


http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp


Please spread the word about this around. Christians can make a difference!



Aim at Heaven and you get earth thrown in; aim at earth and you get neither ~ C.S. Lewis

[Mr. Blonde]

An email i just sent out.

Upon receiving the following email from one of my co-workers after expressing interest in said movie to be released in December, I have decided to take an extremely [and hopefully public] offensive position on the Christian intent of defamation in regard to this movie. What has been started is something that I not only think is unfair (as I don't recall a mass of atheists, agnostics, or any other faith for that matter resorting to libel or slander to discourage the public from seeing "The Chronicles of Narnia" when it came in theaters.), I see this as an extremely cheap shot and similar to the recent events of banning Stephen Colbert from the SC ballot, or any number of other instances of the status quo reacting quite unconstitutionally at the slightest "threat" of nonconformity or change.

On top of the fact that these are FANTASY CHILDREN'S BOOKS, it is also assumed that children have the intelligence and understanding of symbology at their young age to understand such "sinister underlying meanings" as the notion of having no god (note in the Snopes article that the god is regarded as "senile" and oppressive...who would want that kind of god anyway? Oh yeah, the people of the old testament.). Christians are all but demonizing this series and making it out like any child who sees it will be brainwashed and turn into an atheist themselves, or worse, form their own opinion!!! Hell, next thing you know they'll be skateboarding and disrespecting their elders!!!

Bottom line, despite the message of the book this movie is based on, Christians are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is (big surprise) and labeling it as basically anti-religious propaganda. I'm not arguing that Phil Pullman, the author of the books is not atheist himself and that the books are not anti-god, as he has blatantly stated that this is true on several occasions. However, it goes back to my argument that it is a CHILDRENS MOVIE. The fact that these people are making the assumptions that there are such nefarious intentions behind the movie, like "tricking parents into buying the anti-god books" and that the movie is "selling atheism" is friggin' preposterous. Referencing my earlier point, I really don't think that most kids have the kind of perceptive power to relate these books to their own religious teachings, at least at a young age. (See Marilyn Manson/Video games influencing violent behavior). Maybe when they're older, but isn't that what being human is all about? The freedom to decide what you want to believe on your own accord after seeing all the possibilities? The thing that's probably pissing off the Christians more than anything is the fact that this opens their sheltered children up to the mere POSSIBILITY of another religion besides Christianity...and it scares the shit out of them. That's actually the main reason that I am the way I am now, that I went to church every Sunday and was not exposed to ANY other religions until college, when I asked myself the quintessential question: "what makes me right?"

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

>Bertrand Russell.



I sincerely apologize if I offend anybody who disagrees with me, so consider this email an invitation to a debate, if you feel you can contend.

Let me know what you think about all this otherwise.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Yeah, Christians always try to promote their views, and then get all butt hurt when someone else promotes a contradictory view. Nothing new here.

[AcTivE]

i don't get butt hurt.

'christians' that go to church aren't really there, or most of them, from what i've found out though.

i'll give you proof, just gimme a little time. i'm going to let it sink in..and i have other things to do atm.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

you are so ate up dude