2006 Nubblies Enron Trial Pick EM - Nubblies.net Forums

05-02-2006, 01:41 PM

Lay rapped up his testimony today, so it seems there cannot be too much left in this trial (of course I'm sure there will be).

The folks at Intrade - a doublin based events contract exchange (basically a pseudo-legal way to gamble but call it 'investing') have 2 contracts on the market for both Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skilling.

http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/

According to the market, Lay has an 80% chance of being convicted of at least 4 charges and Skilling has a 70% chance of being convicted of at least 16 chargest brought against him.

So what do you think?

angry pancake · 05-02-2006, 03:32 PM

Voted for both. They both pissed off so many people here, not sure how they can avoid conviction for at least something.

05-02-2006, 03:56 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot you are from Texas, are you from Houston?

I've followed the Enron story pretty closely, and I kind of wish neither of them go to jail. Ken Lay is pathetic and probably had little idea any shit was going on, and you can't help but feel sorry for Jeff Skilling because he really did put his whole life into Enron and the whole story could have been much different had a terrible combination of events not happened.

I think the real criminals are Fastow, his immediate associates, Arthur Andersen, and Vinson and Elkins.

angry pancake · 05-02-2006, 04:54 PM

I'm in Dallas. Not sure how close you were watching five years ago when it went down. The natives there are pissed off. Too many people lost everything. The perception is that these guys personally stole from widows and orphans.

I've only had a few cases involving V & E and I wasn't terribly impressed. Here's how it goes:

Lawyer there who was working on a limited appeal to overturn one of my judgments (based on faulty service). He did all sorts work on this case filed boxes of shit with the 2nd court of appeals. Went to our hearing and twice during his 30 minutes of presentation mentioned that he was a Harvard Lawyer, asked for more time to continue his presentation (I agreed). Went on and on about theory and other stuff.

On my turn, I simply stated that I agree with his limited appeal and if he would've returned my calls I would've told him that. The bottom line is that we served citation on the wrong guy. The appeals court should overturn the judgment and send it back for another trial. He throws a fucking fit saying shit about that they've spent over $75,000 getting ready for this hearing and they're entitled to some form of relief. Judge told him to return his phone calls.

After that hearing, he still gloated a little bit and said something about not having the guts to take him on. I just mention that we retry the case and it doesn't go away and now I don't have to get the correct agent served because they've now appeared and waived service. They spend about another $150,000 getting ready to retry this case (different V & E lawyers though). I win on summary judgment a few days before trial. They appeal again and I see the same guy from the first time. Court of appeals agrees that there's no error or abuse of discretion and I win without a hearing.

They spent about a total of $300,000 on this stupid ass case. The judgment itself was for less than $15,000. They ran up a bill $285,000 more than the case itself was worth.

Ugly Bastard · 05-02-2006, 05:51 PM

After watching Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room, I voted Skilling only. I just have this weird vibe that Lay is going to somehow get himself off the hook on this one.

05-02-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

After watching Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room, I voted Skilling only. I just have this weird vibe that Lay is going to somehow get himself off the hook on this one.

They always say this, but you should read the book if you liked the movie. The movie is so bland and gets into no specifics at all (it spends maybe 5 minutes talking about Fastow).

05-16-2006, 06:37 PM

UB! It says you are in Houston, why are you there and how long will you be there? Is there all kinds of talk about the trial?

Ugly Bastard · 05-16-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ FC

UB! It says you are in Houston, why are you there and how long will you be there? Is there all kinds of talk about the trial?

1.) Here because I have a friend who wanted a roommate and I thought "why the hell not".

2.) How long? Not sure. I'd put the over/under at me being here another 3 months.

3.) No. Let's be honest...who gives a shit really about this fucking trial? I'll put it to you this way: My roommate's Dad was a lawyer for Enron at one point, and even he hardly gives a fuck.

05-16-2006, 11:28 PM

Everybody cares about this trial. It's fucking huge. Not sure what newspapers you are reading, cus it's not restricted to the Wall Street Journal. I mean fuck, Enron was one of the biggest companies in the nation, and it dissapeard in a matter of weeks. How can you not be captivated by this story?

Ugly Bastard · 05-17-2006, 12:19 AM

I believe my first post in this thread should indicate I'm at least somewhat captivated by this story. But you're asking me "holy shit you're in Houston, what's all the Enron stuff like down there?!?!?!?!!!!" I mean, that'd be like someone from here saying "holy shit you live in Indiana OMFG what's the Indy 500 like!?!?!?!"

Who gives a shit? Sure it's the biggest race in the world, but it's not like everyone within 100 square miles of the racetrack has their lives revolve around it. Same thing with Houstonians and the Enron trial from what I can tell.

05-17-2006, 10:00 AM

Good point.

But if you were in Indianapolis during the Indy 500, I'm willing to bet you would notice a lot of hubub about the race. I'm not talking about being around the city year-round. I'm talking about being in the city during the event.

Edit: but if it really is the case that you notice hardly any attention being paid to the trial by the city of Houston, then simply say that, instead of sputtering off bullshit - "nobody gives a fuck about this case," when that is obviously not true given the level of media attention.

angry pancake · 05-17-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ FC

Everybody cares about this trial. It's fucking huge. Not sure what newspapers you are reading, cus it's not restricted to the Wall Street Journal. I mean fuck, Enron was one of the biggest companies in the nation, and it dissapeard in a matter of weeks. How can you not be captivated by this story?

It was huge. It was fucking huge. It was the only topic for a long time. It was also in 2001 when it first came crumbling down. It's not getting the headline attention even in the Houston legal community (Merck and Anna Nicole got that).

UB, I'll buy you a beer next time I'm there. Check out the flying saucer downtown. www.beerknurd.com

Ugly Bastard · 05-17-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angry pancake

UB, I'll buy you a beer next time I'm there.

Sounds good, PM me.

angry pancake · 05-24-2006, 07:30 PM

Going to Houston June 27-28.

Mr. Blonde · 05-24-2006, 08:01 PM

awww look at you two, a date!

angry pancake · 05-25-2006, 11:23 AM

http://www.yahoo.com/s/314895

Ken Lay guilty on all six counts. Above link might not work.

05-25-2006, 01:07 PM

This really disapoints me.

As I read "The Smartest Guys in the Room," I repeatedly said to myself, "I don't see anything really wrong with what these guys are doing, it's probably something I, myself, would do in their shoes." I think Skilling, especially, is being martyred.

He may not have been a good businessman, but hindsight is 20/20 and when the dotcom bubble burst, plenty of companies went under. Enron was huge, and Skilling and Fastow set it up on a very risky position. The thing is, had the dotcom bubble not burst, or had the burst been more gentle, or had Fastow not been a crook, none of this would have happened.

So fire Skilling, or give him a couple years of probation for inflating the companies image, but what he did was genuinely in Enron's interest. It deeply saddens me that he has the possibility of going to prison for the rest of his life.

Ugly Bastard · 05-25-2006, 03:20 PM

The cocksucker has it coming.

angry pancake · 05-25-2006, 03:24 PM

It isn't over for Lay yet. He had a seperate trial on four counts of bank fraud that started right after the Skilling-Lay trial.

I think I recall TexasLawyer describing "Smartest Guys in the Room" as "historical fiction".

The news reports are that the seperate trial was included in this.

Skilling convicted on 19 of 26. If you guessed both, you win.

Ugly Bastard · 07-05-2006, 10:11 AM

Ken Lay is dead.

Something tells me this is going to get some conspiracy theories going.

angry pancake · 07-05-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angry pancake

It isn't over for Lay yet.

I stand corrected.

Still, what a brilliant strategy to avoid jail time. I guess he gets the last laugh.

Mr. Blonde · 07-05-2006, 12:44 PM

f3lix · 07-05-2006, 03:27 PM

"His heart just stopped."

Orgazmo · 07-05-2006, 05:46 PM

Very funny timing, Ken Lay's heart. Very fucking funny timing.

DJ FC · 10-23-2006, 03:31 PM

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=8660

Ken Lay's convictions have been dismissed and Skilling is going to jail for 24 years.

View Poll Results: Who's going to be convicted?
Ken Lay only	1	11.11%
Skilling only	3	33.33%
Both	4	44.44%
Neither	1	11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

05-02-2006, 01:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	2006 Nubblies Fantasy Enron Trial Pick EM Lay rapped up his testimony today, so it seems there cannot be too much left in this trial (of course I'm sure there will be). The folks at Intrade - a doublin based events contract exchange (basically a pseudo-legal way to gamble but call it 'investing') have 2 contracts on the market for both Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skilling. http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/ According to the market, Lay has an 80% chance of being convicted of at least 4 charges and Skilling has a 70% chance of being convicted of at least 16 chargest brought against him. So what do you think?
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	Last edited by DJ FC; 05-02-2006 at 01:42 PM.

05-02-2006, 03:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	Oh yeah, I forgot you are from Texas, are you from Houston? I've followed the Enron story pretty closely, and I kind of wish neither of them go to jail. Ken Lay is pathetic and probably had little idea any shit was going on, and you can't help but feel sorry for Jeff Skilling because he really did put his whole life into Enron and the whole story could have been much different had a terrible combination of events not happened. I think the real criminals are Fastow, his immediate associates, Arthur Andersen, and Vinson and Elkins.
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a

05-16-2006, 06:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	UB! It says you are in Houston, why are you there and how long will you be there? Is there all kinds of talk about the trial?
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a

05-16-2006, 11:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	Everybody cares about this trial. It's fucking huge. Not sure what newspapers you are reading, cus it's not restricted to the Wall Street Journal. I mean fuck, Enron was one of the biggest companies in the nation, and it dissapeard in a matter of weeks. How can you not be captivated by this story?
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a

05-02-2006, 05:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	After watching Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room, I voted Skilling only. I just have this weird vibe that Lay is going to somehow get himself off the hook on this one.

05-17-2006, 12:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	I believe my first post in this thread should indicate I'm at least somewhat captivated by this story. But you're asking me "holy shit you're in Houston, what's all the Enron stuff like down there?!?!?!?!!!!" I mean, that'd be like someone from here saying "holy shit you live in Indiana OMFG what's the Indy 500 like!?!?!?!" Who gives a shit? Sure it's the biggest race in the world, but it's not like everyone within 100 square miles of the racetrack has their lives revolve around it. Same thing with Houstonians and the Enron trial from what I can tell.

05-17-2006, 10:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	Good point. But if you were in Indianapolis during the Indy 500, I'm willing to bet you would notice a lot of hubub about the race. I'm not talking about being around the city year-round. I'm talking about being in the city during the event. Edit: but if it really is the case that you notice hardly any attention being paid to the trial by the city of Houston, then simply say that, instead of sputtering off bullshit - "nobody gives a fuck about this case," when that is obviously not true given the level of media attention.
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	Last edited by DJ FC; 05-17-2006 at 10:07 AM.

05-24-2006, 08:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	awww look at you two, a date!
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

05-25-2006, 01:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a	This really disapoints me. As I read "The Smartest Guys in the Room," I repeatedly said to myself, "I don't see anything really wrong with what these guys are doing, it's probably something I, myself, would do in their shoes." I think Skilling, especially, is being martyred. He may not have been a good businessman, but hindsight is 20/20 and when the dotcom bubble burst, plenty of companies went under. Enron was huge, and Skilling and Fastow set it up on a very risky position. The thing is, had the dotcom bubble not burst, or had the burst been more gentle, or had Fastow not been a crook, none of this would have happened. So fire Skilling, or give him a couple years of probation for inflating the companies image, but what he did was genuinely in Enron's interest. It deeply saddens me that he has the possibility of going to prison for the rest of his life.
DJ FC Guest Posts: n/a

05-25-2006, 03:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	The cocksucker has it coming.

07-05-2006, 10:11 AM	#20 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Ken Lay is dead. Something tells me this is going to get some conspiracy theories going.
	Last edited by Ugly Bastard; 07-05-2006 at 11:13 AM.

07-05-2006, 12:44 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	lol
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

07-05-2006, 03:27 PM	#23 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	"His heart just stopped."

07-05-2006, 05:46 PM	#24 (permalink)
Orgazmo COME ON YOU YANKS Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 15,725 Internets: 311447	Very funny timing, Ken Lay's heart. Very fucking funny timing.

10-23-2006, 03:31 PM	#25 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=8660 Ken Lay's convictions have been dismissed and Skilling is going to jail for 24 years.
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

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