Ultimate fighter finale...

[Repugnant Abomination]

Work? You decide. Watch Shamrocks feet...

[Ugly Bastard]

Fixed

-Ugly Bastard

[ April 11, 2005, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: Ugly Bastard ]

On a sidenote: the fight right before that one was INSANE! I've never been all about UFC, but maybe I'll pay more attention from now on.

[the Butcher]

fixed.

[Beebs]

Not a work, at very most it was Shamrock taking a dive without instruction. This isnt Japan, the UFC has to answer to the Nevada State Athletic Commision. Betting sites were running lines on this fight, a work would put people at risk for jail, and knowing vegas....death.

There is no way the UFC would risk fixing a match that needed no fixing, on their biggest stage under the most scrutiny they have ever faced.

Also, why would it be fixed? What is there to gain? What the hell was that "supposed" to be if it was fixed? It looks pretty clear that he was dropping for an ankle pick or something similar, and got caught at the last second, what was it supposed to be if it was worked?
Heres the finishing sequence...what the hell kind of work would end with a legit slip, and 21 punches to the head?


Further reading on the subject
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=249914

So in conclusion, no, it's not a work, Shamrock just isn't top level anymore.

[ April 11, 2005, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Beebs ]

[Ugly Bastard]

This stuff is so boring to me.

-Ugly Bastard

[Beebs]

So go jump out of a plane.

[Beebs]

The full fight at real speed, makes it pretty clear that it is not a work.
http://www.nubblies.net/ubb/uploads/1113454615.wmv

[Ironic Mustache]

www.fightsport.com

Hello my friends! Welcome to Tape Lord's 'Monday Morning Mailbag'. Below are some of the more interesting e-mails I recieved as one of the editors of this newspage. Enjoy...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE SHAMROCK VS. FRANKLIN FIGHT LOOKED FIXED
The Shamrock vs. Franklin fight looked like a pretty obvious work to me. Even worse than the Frye and Shamrock fight in PRIDE. I bet Zuffa made it worth Ken's trouble to throw that fight. What's your take on the fight?
- The Real Big Pun

Tape Lord's reply: Big Pun, we may never know the truth, but Shamrock's phantom flop looks very funny. Shamrock also let go of a heel hook that he appeared to have a good hold of. Shamrock didn't even try to defend himself when Franklin started throwing some strikes from inside Ken's guard.

Also, Franklin recieved an 8-fight deal BEFORE the fight with Shamrock, whereas Shamrock was on the last fight of his deal.

Finally, the fight was slated for three 5-minute rounds, plus the rest time between rounds, which comes out to about a 20-minute slot. Yet the fight was started with LESS then 15 minutes remaining in the broadcast??

Very funny fight in my humble opinion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY WAS FRANKLIN GIVEN AN 8-FIGHT DEAL BEFORE SHAMROCK FIGHT?
Why was Rich Franklin given an 8-fight deal before his fight with Ken Shamrock? What is he had lost the fight? This all seems very suspicious to me.
- Rick
Los Angeles, CA

Tape Lord's reply: Dana White seems to want to make Rich Franklin into his new poster boy. No offense to Rich Franklin, but why Dana White would want do this is beyond me.

And as we have seen from Dana White in the past, he usually signs guys to big deals, only to see them lose, while not re-signing guys who end up beating his chosen poster boys. This seems to be one instance where it finally did not blow up in his face, but I do agree that it looks suspicious on the casual observer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY WAS SHAMROCK VS. FRANKLIN FIGHT STARTED SO LATE?
The Shamrock vs. Franklin fight was started with less then 15 minutes left in the broadcast. What if the fight had went the distance? Would it have gotten cut off in mid-air like in UFC 33?
-Daren Summers
Las Vegas, NV

Tape Lord's reply: Daren, this is something that has yet to be explained. Like I said to another reader, the fight was slated for three 5-minute rounds, plus the rest time between rounds. This all comes out to about a 20-minute slot. Yet the fight was started with LESS then 15 minutes remaining in the broadcast!

The numbers obviously don't add up. It could be yet another classic example of Zuffa time mismanagement, which would have resulted in the main event getting cut off while live, or maybe it was something even worse. We will probably never know the complete truth.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I FEEL TUF PROVED SUPERIORITY OF HOMOSEXUAL FIGHTERS
I feel that TUF and the TUF finale winners have given a huge boost to the omosexual community. The homosexuals of our society can now stand up and be counted for as legit tough guys who can kick serious ass in the streets.

All homosexuals are true warriors and with the help of UFC president Dana White, we have now made MMA our own.
-Andrew Bryant
Pheonix, Arizona

Tape Lord's reply: Andy, although you may be right about some cast members, I do not believe that any of the TUF finalists have admitted to being homosexuals. As for the rest of your post, you are entitled to your opinion but I believe you, as is the rest of the homosexual viewership of TUF, are jumping to conclusions about a lot of these fighters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY IS RICH FRANKLIN BEING MADE INTO A POSTER BOY?
This doesn't make sense to me. The UFC has handsome and well muscled black men such as Yves Edwards at their disposal, yet they choose to make some pasty white guy who looks like Jim Carrey into their poster boy??? WTF is up with that??!!
- Beau Taylor
Tulsa, OK

Tape Lord's reply: I don't think Yves Edwards would be a good poster boy either, but I do agree with you that choosing Rich Franklin as your new poster boy makes no sense either.

According to people who know Dana White on a more personal level, White seems obsessed with the whole concept of young men taking out older legends. He seems to think Rich Franklin is the young guy for him.

[Repugnant Abomination]

It's not a work cause shamrock takes a few punches at the end? Please.

[Ironic Mustache]

Franklin probably didn't even know it was a work. They probably only discussed it with Shamrock.

[Beebs]

Originally posted by Repugnant Abomination:
It's not a work cause shamrock takes a few punches at the end? Please.

So whats the evidence in favor of the work, the fact that he got punched while dropping for an ankle pick?

[Ironic Mustache]

This and the fact that he was already falling before he got punched. Plus what happened to that heel hook? It was on tight, and then magically disappeared.

Originally posted by Ironic Mustache:
www.fightsport.com

Hello my friends! Welcome to Tape Lord's 'Monday Morning Mailbag'. Below are some of the more interesting e-mails I recieved as one of the editors of this newspage. Enjoy...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE SHAMROCK VS. FRANKLIN FIGHT LOOKED FIXED
The Shamrock vs. Franklin fight looked like a pretty obvious work to me. Even worse than the Frye and Shamrock fight in PRIDE. I bet Zuffa made it worth Ken's trouble to throw that fight. What's your take on the fight?
- The Real Big Pun

Tape Lord's reply: Big Pun, we may never know the truth, but Shamrock's phantom flop looks very funny. Shamrock also let go of a heel hook that he appeared to have a good hold of. Shamrock didn't even try to defend himself when Franklin started throwing some strikes from inside Ken's guard.

Also, Franklin recieved an 8-fight deal BEFORE the fight with Shamrock, whereas Shamrock was on the last fight of his deal.

Finally, the fight was slated for three 5-minute rounds, plus the rest time between rounds, which comes out to about a 20-minute slot. Yet the fight was started with LESS then 15 minutes remaining in the broadcast??

Very funny fight in my humble opinion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY WAS FRANKLIN GIVEN AN 8-FIGHT DEAL BEFORE SHAMROCK FIGHT?
Why was Rich Franklin given an 8-fight deal before his fight with Ken Shamrock? What is he had lost the fight? This all seems very suspicious to me.
- Rick
Los Angeles, CA

Tape Lord's reply: Dana White seems to want to make Rich Franklin into his new poster boy. No offense to Rich Franklin, but why Dana White would want do this is beyond me.

And as we have seen from Dana White in the past, he usually signs guys to big deals, only to see them lose, while not re-signing guys who end up beating his chosen poster boys. This seems to be one instance where it finally did not blow up in his face, but I do agree that it looks suspicious on the casual observer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY WAS SHAMROCK VS. FRANKLIN FIGHT STARTED SO LATE?
The Shamrock vs. Franklin fight was started with less then 15 minutes left in the broadcast. What if the fight had went the distance? Would it have gotten cut off in mid-air like in UFC 33?
-Daren Summers
Las Vegas, NV

Tape Lord's reply: Daren, this is something that has yet to be explained. Like I said to another reader, the fight was slated for three 5-minute rounds, plus the rest time between rounds. This all comes out to about a 20-minute slot. Yet the fight was started with LESS then 15 minutes remaining in the broadcast!

The numbers obviously don't add up. It could be yet another classic example of Zuffa time mismanagement, which would have resulted in the main event getting cut off while live, or maybe it was something even worse. We will probably never know the complete truth.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I FEEL TUF PROVED SUPERIORITY OF HOMOSEXUAL FIGHTERS
I feel that TUF and the TUF finale winners have given a huge boost to the omosexual community. The homosexuals of our society can now stand up and be counted for as legit tough guys who can kick serious ass in the streets.

All homosexuals are true warriors and with the help of UFC president Dana White, we have now made MMA our own.
-Andrew Bryant
Pheonix, Arizona

Tape Lord's reply: Andy, although you may be right about some cast members, I do not believe that any of the TUF finalists have admitted to being homosexuals. As for the rest of your post, you are entitled to your opinion but I believe you, as is the rest of the homosexual viewership of TUF, are jumping to conclusions about a lot of these fighters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHY IS RICH FRANKLIN BEING MADE INTO A POSTER BOY?
This doesn't make sense to me. The UFC has handsome and well muscled black men such as Yves Edwards at their disposal, yet they choose to make some pasty white guy who looks like Jim Carrey into their poster boy??? WTF is up with that??!!
- Beau Taylor
Tulsa, OK

Tape Lord's reply: I don't think Yves Edwards would be a good poster boy either, but I do agree with you that choosing Rich Franklin as your new poster boy makes no sense either.

According to people who know Dana White on a more personal level, White seems obsessed with the whole concept of young men taking out older legends. He seems to think Rich Franklin is the young guy for him.

[Beebs]

Originally posted by Ironic Mustache:
This and the fact that he was already falling before he got punched. Plus what happened to that heel hook? It was on tight, and then magically disappeared.

[/quote]

He wasn't shooting, he was intentionally dropping to get a leg, and got punched. Watch it at something faster than super slow mo and it becomes a lot clearer. Franklin rolled with the heel hook at got out, certainly not unheard of.

Again, this isn't Japan, the UFC, especially after being sanctioned by the NSAC has no history of working fights, why start on their biggest stage when they have the biggest chance of getting caught, and Franklin would have won anyway?

[Repugnant Abomination]

Watch the clip again man, Franklins punch does NOT make contact when shamrock drops. SHamrock mistimed it. Why would you watch is in normal speed when you can watch it in slow mo to see in greater detail what actually happens.

[Beebs]

Just to be clear, you don't think the punch lands at all?

[Repugnant Abomination]

The right jab that's thrown? No.

[bloodyfart]

it was not a work. certain people i know that are very close to the ufc and i have discussed it. in fact, last night, he and i discussed it at length.

1. look at the toe slippage on that first takedown.
2. he is old
3. he needs more money than a work could give him because he owes the i.r.s about 750k
4. he has too much pride for that
5. the ufc's first live network debut is too important for such shennanigans.

people loose get over it. everyone has known that shammy has nothing off his back. why does it surprise anyone that he couldnt defend himself from guard.

[Ironic Mustache]

Oh yeah he's got way too much pride.

[Beebs]

Originally posted by Ironic Mustache:
Oh yeah he's got way too much pride.

Although I agree with bloody....thats fucking funny.

[ April 19, 2005, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Beebs ]

[Deadly Crescent Kick]

LOL @ ironic.

if it was a work (which i would not put past dana white & the fertitas), its not like they're going to let that info be leaked out.

boxers take dives for $$ and they have to answer to the gaming commisions too.

it was too long ago that when a fighter would get out of the good graces of dana and they suddenly return a positive on their drug tests (josh barnett comes to mind). i find it to be very convenient timing. don't forget that the fertitas have ties to NSAC.

also, ken fought in pancrase. those guys have been known to work fights (not all, but some).

[bloodyfart]

toe slippage is obvious.