Nationa ID card sneaks through Congress

[f3lix]

Remember the PATRIOT ACT? The horrid constitution-denying act that stole our freedoms stated in the Bill of Rights? The Act that was passed without letting Congress even see it before they voted on it, and obvious reasons for it? Welcome to Orwell's 1984 continued...

The U.S. House and Senate have passed a sweeping new intelligence bill
that contains provisions for a de facto national ID card. Congress
passed the bill despite having only a few hours to read the 3,000-plus
pages final version.

During the House debate, libertarian U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) rose
to the floor to denounce the bill, particularly the national ID
provisions.

“National ID cards are not proper in a free society,” Paul declared.
“This is America, not Soviet Russia. The federal government should never
be allowed to demand papers from American citizens, and it certainly
has no constitutional authority to do so.

“A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will
allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and
transactions of every American,” Paul continued. “History shows that
governments inevitably use such power in harmful ways. The 9-11
commission, whose recommendations underlie this bill, has called for *internal*
screening points where identification will be demanded. Domestic travel
restrictions are the hallmark of authoritarian states, not free
nations. It is just a matter of time until those who refuse to carry the new
licenses will be denied the ability to drive or board an airplane.

“Nationalizing standards for drivers licenses and birth certificates,
and linking them together via a national database, creates a national ID
system pure and simple. Proponents of the national ID understand that
the public remains wary of the scheme, so they attempt to claim they’re
merely creating new standards for existing state IDs. Nonsense! This
legislation imposes federal standards in a federal bill, and it creates a
federalized ID regardless of whether the ID itself is still stamped
with the name of your state.

“Those who are willing to allow the government to establish a
Soviet-style internal passport system because they think it will make us safer
are terribly mistaken,” Paul concluded. “Subjecting every citizen to
surveillance and screening points actually will make us less safe, not in
the least because it will divert resources away from tracking and
apprehending terrorists and deploy them against innocent Americans! Every
conservative who believes in constitutional restraints on government
should reject the authoritarian national ID card and the nonsensical
intelligence bill itself.”

Unfortunately, Republicans and Democrats alike failed to heed Paul’s
warning. The bill was passed by the House 336-75 with 67 of the
dissenters Republicans defying strong pressure from President Bush. The bill
then passed the Senate 89-2. It could be signed by the president by
week's end.

Interestingly, just one day before the U.S. House vote, the British
government also announced plans to introduce biometric national ID card
starting in 2008. According to Prime Minister Tony Blair: "With
terrorism, illegal immigration and organized crime operating with so much
greater sophistication, identity cards in my judgment are long overdue."

Opponents say the battle against a national ID, and the fast-growing
national security state that supports such tyranny, will continue.

[tonguegina]

When do they shave our heads, tattoo numbers on our necks, and put us in those silver jumpsuites with the V-stripe and the boots?

[Mr. Blonde]

Yeah, this is definitely proposterous, how come I havent heard anything about this? Did it JUST get proposed and JUST get passed? I know the Patriot Act is a little bullshit, but this is ridiculous...Any more information on the details of how our lives will be affected if this becomes a reality?


P.S. - I can definitely see patriotism-starved Bush approving this..unfortunately.

[ December 14, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]

[Saint DH]

Big fucking deal. So you have to carry around another fucking ID card so they not you're not a greasey illegal mexican, or a dirty mid east terrorist. Who gives a fuck.

[Beebs]

Big fuckin deal, so you have to pay a tax on tea.

[f3lix]

Originally posted by Dirty Harry:
Big fucking deal. So you have to carry around another fucking ID card so they not you're not a greasey illegal mexican, or a dirty mid east terrorist. Who gives a fuck.

It's a big deal, b/c it's just the start of you being tracked in whatever you do. Kinda like how the gov't used the patriot act to track down child pornographers and computer hackers...that was NOT the purpose of the Patriot Act...you give the gov't power, they abuse it for all they can.

[Schroeder]

F3lix, every one of your posts gets a little closer to you starting your own militia. You could start your own propaganda newspaper.

[St. Anky]

Right the fuck on! Civil WAr!

[Saint DH]

Originally posted by f3lix:
It's a big deal, b/c it's just the start of you being tracked in whatever you do. Kinda like how the gov't used the patriot act to track down child pornographers and computer hackers...that was NOT the purpose of the Patriot Act...you give the gov't power, they abuse it for all they can.

I really fail to see how the government issuing a national ID card gives them the ability to track one down in whatever they do. Maybe if they put tracking devices in every card they could, but for some reason I don't see that happening.

Don't get me wrong, the government can be a piece of shit, and I don't really care for a national ID card, but I'm not going to cry about it. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Beebs]

Tracking would be easy, odds are it will have a bar code on it just like a college ID.

I bet mandatory chips under the skin is next.

Seriously if you were worried about this why hasn't anybody mentioned doubleclick yet?

[Beebs]

Double click is clever, unethical, yet clever private marketing.
Government ID's are a step in the wrong directions as far as civil liberty.
I know I don't have to explain this to you FC.

[Mr. Blonde]

But you do to me. What is double click?

[George Sherman]

This is getting seriously fucking out of hand. This is terrible. First its the Patriot Act, then these id cards, next it will be chips under our skin, then they are going to take our guns away. They are going to have to kill me before they do that. Does anyone understand how serious this really is? Shit like this is going completely against the constitution. Its crazy, we are getting closer and closer to having all our rights taken away everyday. I've been saying it for four years now and I will say it again. George Bush is the antichrist and he needs to be shot.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally posted by George Sherman:
George Bush is the antichrist and he needs to be shot.

ahahahaha. Well at least that will get us some advertisement for the site, but more government officials than we want.

[George Sherman]

Good. It is absolutely disgusting that our commander in chief is going to allow something like that, something that intrusive to pass, absolutely disgusting, i feel physically sick thinking about it, I seriously do.

[ December 14, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: George Sherman ]

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally posted by Schroeder:
F3lix, every one of your posts gets a little closer to you starting your own militia. You could start your own propaganda newspaper.

That was seriously one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.

It's shit like that Shroeder. Posts where you're not trying to impress anyone, or anything else, just you; being an asshole. That's the Shroeder we all like.

-Ugly Bastard

[the Butcher]

Fuck the motherfucking government. With the power that the Republicans now hold, America is going to change it's name to Airstip One Society, and we're going to start a war with Eastasia. We're all fucked because of the government's never-ending pursuit of fucking up our lives and tracking everything we do. Fuck it.

[Schroeder]

Originally posted by the Butcher:
With the power that the Republicans now hold, America is going to change it's name to Airstip One Society, and we're going to start a war with Eastasia. We're all fucked because of the government's never-ending pursuit of fucking up our lives and tracking everything we do. Fuck it.

Heck, I've already installed a two-way television in my room just so the government can see me at all times, too.

[ninjaface]

"Your Papers Please"

US adopts National ID:
Homeland Security Now In charge of Regulations for all US States Drivers Licenses and Birth Certificates

By: Jonathan Wheeler
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/yourp...e10dec04.shtml
December 10, 2004

Forward courtesy of Donna Carillo <Services4Health@aol.com >

In a chilling act more reminiscent of the now defunct Soviet Union or the Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler, the United States Congress passed legislation yesterday that requires the States to surrender their regulatory rights over driver’s licenses and birth certificates to The Department of Homeland Security.

The massive US Intelligence Reform Bill weighed in at over 3,000 pages and though unread by individual Members of either the House or Senate nevertheless passed all of the legislative hurdles needed in order to become law.

President Bush lobbied hard for these provisions, only objecting when Senator Sensenbrenner attempted to require these same provisions for illegal aliens but which the President opposed. This provision was dropped from the final bill.

Beginning in 2005, the Department of Homeland Security will issue new uniformity regulations to the States requiring that all Drivers Licenses and Birth Certificates meet minimal Federal Standards with regard to US citizen information, including biometric security provisions.

Added to currently existing Federal Laws and Supreme Court rulings American citizens when born will be issued a Social Security Number that will be included on their Birth Certificates, along with DNA biometric markers. All birth certificates will also be registered in a Federal Government database maintained by the Department of Homeland Security. No child will be allowed enrollment to schools or be entitled to either State of Federal Government benefits programs without first presenting a certified Homeland Security registered Birth Certificate.

Drivers Licenses will also contain DNA biometric markers and include the holders Social Security Number and be required for receiving and applying for all State and Federal benefits programs. Previous Supreme Court rulings have also upheld State and Federal Law Enforcement authorities right to request Identification from any American citizen, for any reason and at any time as not being violations of their, the citizens, constitutionally protected rights.

Major Banks and credit card companies have applauded the adoption of a National ID system as being important to counter fraud and increasing instances of identity theft. National ID cards with biometric markers will eliminate them from having to issue Credit and Debit cards, which for the first time in US history have surpassed the usage of checks and cash. Utilizing The Department of Homeland Securities centralized federal database, Banks and credit card companies will only require the presentation of a citizens Driver’s License to make purchases as all of the persons financial information, including credit and cash balances, will already be known in ‘real time’. (The combining of Homeland Security and Banking databases on citizen’s balances and purchases, along with their past and present purchasing information, has been allowed under previous Federal Laws including the Patriot Act.)

Also included in this bill is a law to require The Department of Homeland Security to establish a separate ID system for citizens to use prior to boarding airplanes, and which is eerily reminiscent of the Soviet and Nazi regimes dreaded Internal Passport.

Never before in our history have the words of Benjamin Franklin been so correct when he stated: "people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both".

Today, December 9, 2004 will be one of those moments in time that future historians will look back on and pin point as being the day that the United States of American, and as it was founded by its forefathers, ceased to exist.

http://www.ethericfire.com/blogs/arc...ogid=1&pid=722

http://www.ethericfire.com/blogs/

Donna Carrillo, co-director
Vaccination Liberation
http://www.vaclib.org

.....

Fucking Great.

[ December 15, 2004, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: ninjaface ]

[f3lix]

Gentlemen, many of you have claimed to be Republican and Democrat. Despite stupid and horrid laws they have passed before, you still vote for either party. As you can see by the voting in the House and Senate, YOU VOTED FOR THESE POLITICIANS. There are currently 5 libertarians in Congress (all who have joined a created faction of the Republican wing called the Republican Liberty Caucus.) Luckily this number has grown from 1 member to 5 in the past 6 years, but it is not growing fast enough to stop this federal government monopoly. State's rights are ever so important, because it keeps the Fed Gov't in check. If the national ID card or any of these other invasions of privacy bother you, please notice who is voting for these bills to pass. If you want to support the cause of Liberty, we have one member of the Republican Liberty Caucus in Indiana who is inching closer, and that is Andy Horning, of Indianapolis.

A link to this group is found at http://www.rlc.org/

[Ugly Bastard]

I like how everyone's shitting their pants over having to get a National ID card. I mean...haven't we had Social Security Cards since like, the beginning of time?

Errr...

The government is taking over the people! We must act now and vote Libertarian if we want to have a future in this country! Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble!

-Ugly Bastard

[f3lix]

Originally posted by Ugly Bastard:
I like how everyone's shitting their pants over having to get a National ID card. I mean...haven't we had Social Security Cards since like, the beginning of time?

-Ugly Bastard

UB, you bring up a good point. Yes we have had Social Security Cards for a long time. And yes, they do identify us as US Citizens. Thanks for proving my point. The National ID card is NOT for identification purposes, but is a gateway to tracking us in wherever we go.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally posted by f3lix:
The National ID card is NOT for identification purposes, but is a gateway to tracking us in wherever we go.[/QB]

WHO CARES? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE?

Originally posted by ninjaface:
Today, December 9, 2004 will be one of those moments in time that future historians will look back on and pin point as being the day that the United States of American, and as it was founded by its forefathers, ceased to exist.

Cool, but I disagree. Its not the end of the fucking world folks. This is just one more small step on a road we have been traveling on for quite sometime. This is all inevitable with the maturing of the information age, and we're all here to witness it. The United States will not cease to exist because of this, it will become stronger. I'm not saying that this is all rainbows and raindrops its just whats happening, it can be good in your view or bad. We are entering an era like none other before, we'll just have to see how it works out. With all this new technology and whatnot pretty soon it becomes very hard for privacy to exist.

Its true, and it is scary. With this new ID card thing more of our privacy is being taken away. The fact is, if you think about it, we barely have any privacy or rights right now anyways. This free country is an illusion. I don't think we live in a free country and none of us ever have. How rediculous is it that it is illegal for you to allow people to smoke in your own fucking bar!?work 40 hours a week but you can't gamble your money in a card game? Or have sex with a little girl with her consent? Or a woman can't have sex with a man for money? Or not letting you top out your car? How does the government get away with suppressing this and still claim to be a free country?

Well America is not a free country, and frankly, I'm glad. Free countries suck ass. In free countries crime would be rampant and good citizens can be molested by those who are bad people much easier.

The only people that are effected negatively by getting more of their privacy taken away are those that have something to hide. In the future it will be even more difficult to buy your drugs and steal your movies and music from the internet, or run away from paying child support, or avoid paying your parking tickets, or sneak into the country and start a new life, or hide something you regretted doing a long time ago. I am willing to give this all this up for security. There comes a point where you have to decide if you want privacy, or security. I am perfectly happy living as a good little citizen, playing my video games, working at a job, raising a family or whatever without worrying about runaway criminals lurking in the streets, child molesters living next door without my knowledge, or if Jose the illegal mexican can find a new home and integrate into our country--i don't care about him, why should I? Go ahead take privacy away, who needs it? I have nothing to hide from the government, DO YOU?

I think privacy is highly overrated. If you don't like how restrictive the United States laws start getting, then move. You will always have that option. Move to Germany where you'll have so much freedom, Go take your shit to France and sneer at those ignorant Americans. Go somewhere else and start your anarchy, I don't care. I'm happy where all this is heading, fuck privacy. I know its not perfect, but can you Freedom Freaks give me a goddamn government that ever was?

Privacy is one thing, freedom of speach is another, and I'm perfectly happy with just having that.

>>> [img]graemlins/wackit.gif[/img]
privacy

[ December 15, 2004, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: THEINCREDIBLEdork ]

[f3lix]

Originally posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by f3lix:
The National ID card is NOT for identification purposes, but is a gateway to tracking us in wherever we go.

WHO CARES? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE?

Originally posted by ninjaface:
Today, December 9, 2004 will be one of those moments in time that future historians will look back on and pin point as being the day that the United States of American, and as it was founded by its forefathers, ceased to exist.

Cool, but I disagree. Its not the end of the fucking world folks. This is just one more small step on a road we have been traveling on for quite sometime. This is all inevitable with the maturing of the information age, and we're all here to witness it. The United States will not cease to exist because of this, it will become stronger. I'm not saying that this is all rainbows and raindrops its just whats happening, it can be good in your view or bad. We are entering an era like none other before, we'll just have to see how it works out. With all this new technology and whatnot pretty soon it becomes very hard for privacy to exist.

Its true, and it is scary. With this new ID card thing more of our privacy is being taken away. The fact is, if you think about it, we barely have any privacy or rights right now anyways. This free country is an illusion. I don't think we live in a free country and none of us ever have. How rediculous is it that it is illegal for you to allow people to smoke in your own fucking bar!?work 40 hours a week but you can't gamble your money in a card game? Or have sex with a little girl with her consent? Or a woman can't have sex with a man for money? Or not letting you top out your car? How does the government get away with suppressing this and still claim to be a free country?

Well America is not a free country, and frankly, I'm glad. Free countries suck ass. In free countries crime would be rampant and good citizens can be molested by those who are bad people much easier.

The only people that are effected negatively by getting more of their privacy taken away are those that have something to hide. In the future it will be even more difficult to buy your drugs and steal your movies and music from the internet, or run away from paying child support, or avoid paying your parking tickets, or sneak into the country and start a new life, or hide something you regretted doing a long time ago. I am willing to give this all this up for security. There comes a point where you have to decide if you want privacy, or security. I am perfectly happy living as a good little citizen, playing my video games, working at a job, raising a family or whatever without worrying about runaway criminals lurking in the streets, child molesters living next door without my knowledge, or if Jose the illegal mexican can find a new home and integrate into our country--i don't care about him, why should I? Go ahead take privacy away, who needs it? I have nothing to hide from the government, DO YOU?

I think privacy is highly overrated. If you don't like how restrictive the United States laws start getting, then move. You will always have that option. Move to Germany where you'll have so much freedom, Go take your shit to France and sneer at those ignorant Americans. Go somewhere else and start your anarchy, I don't care. I'm happy where all this is heading, fuck privacy. I know its not perfect, but can you Freedom Freaks give me a goddamn government that ever was?

Privacy is one thing, freedom of speach is another, and I'm perfectly happy with just having that.

&gt;&gt;&gt; [img]graemlins/wackit.gif[/img]
privacy[/QB]</font>[/quote]Thanks for your opinion, please leave our country, you communist.

It is about what we have to hide, it is the concept of not having big brother watch over everything we do. Posting on nubblies is a freedom; would you post all the things you have, knowing the government is watching and can arrest you for thought crimes?

It's nice you want to live in a happy utopia, but think about this...why did everybody move to America? Was it for security?