[Mr. Blonde]

God damn guys. Good job in this thread, all of you.

Originally Posted by f3lix

"retail clerks, waitresses, cube drones and IT guys"

How many of these jobs require a 4-year degree, all kinds of governmental prodding into your past, and continued education classes? I'm pretty sure I don't have to pay $50k to go get a job as a waiter or waitress of which my own motivation for doing well is getting tipped better by performing better.

In my experience, while the lower levels of these jobs obviously don't require a 4 year degree, in order to get any significant promotion to make a living on, most of these jobs (managers of all of the establishments you quote) do require a degree of some sort, and even then the pay is still pretty shitty. I work in IT support and the people I have to deal with on a daily basis are fucking horrible. I don't bitch about it that much because - like people have said in this thread, if I don't like it, its really my own fault. However, by no fucking means am I going to stick it out and hate my life every day of my life just because the job offers "security". I plan to be teaching English in South Korea (mainly to travel, teaching is just the means to do so) by the end of next month if everything goes properly.

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

IAs long as I have enough money to live a (what I consider to be) comfortable life, I'll be okay. The fact that someone else is working 70 hours a week and busting their ass doesn't make me think any better of them. In fact I think they're foolishly wasting their lives and not enjoying it enough.

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

That's why I think it's so important to enjoy whatever it is you do to earn money.

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

But I do think I am of the philosophy, like the French for example, that believe you should work less and enjoy life more. Unfortunately I know that in order to enjoy life more in the material sense you have to work more, but I'm perfectly happy not having really fancy things. I consider the need for superfluous possessions pretty superficial - and the person who needs those things to be happy pretty shallow.

I feel kinda the same way, surprisingly as I get older. I've never been entirely money motivated. I didn't grow up from a wealthy family, so it's not that I've ever had to worry about money - I think we all have - its just to me, I just don't care that much. Like Repug, if I have my necessities covered, I really am fine. What I find more and more is that people just are either going on life "auto pilot" from the lessons and values they learned as children on the path of "go to school, go to college, get a job, get married, have kids, retire, die" This is really going to turn into another rant about, while i'm not sure the motivation of many women out there in the world (besides to be hot and attract a mate), the motivation for a lot of guys to make lots of money in the world seems to be getting a wife and (even if they don't know it yet), providing for a family. Fuck that shit. Really, what is the point to build any wealth in life if its not for those who you love to share it with? Just be lonely and rich and have all this money that you can buy tons of shit with? Sure i'm sure its fun for a while, but we're all human, and eventually everybody comes around. The problem is that lots of men and women buy into the whole married and children thing and end up having to still bust their fucking asses to keep up with society and all its expectations of us. I say (now, at least...and probably for a while) fuck society. I hate that people think of me differently at 25 because I don't have an awesome job, or car, or I live with 3 other guys in a medium sized house, and am not buying all sorts of new things every month. That doesn't mean I'm going to give in; in fact i'm more likely to say "fuck you" even more simply because of the fact i'm going against the grain. But anyways, sorry for the mini-rant..moving on...

Originally Posted by tonguegina

This hardly makes any sense even to me, but I'm at a point in my life where I'm not sure where I'm going or how I got there. Maybe that makes me appreciate the journey more, maybe I'm just a hippie among capitalists. Either way, I think work is one of the least important things you do with your life (unless it's something that you're passionate about, then lucky you), and I don't think it should be the defining factor.

It's hard to categorize people as a whole. There are so many different viewpoints to take. One could look at you and call you a lazy hippie as you so described. One could look at GWB and ask "what the fuck is he doing working so much? WHY??? Money? it that the only reason, or does he really enjoy the work he does? One can look at UB and how lucky he is...or how misfortunate gambling can be sometimes. One can look at me and see a confused ex-douchebag who doesn't know what the fuck he's doing in his life and seems to hate everything that involves staying in one place for 6 months. The list can go on and on, and by no means am I picking on anybody, as there are MANY different interpretations of everybody that can be seen by any different person, these are just the first that come to mind with what I know of those on the board. The sad thing about people "defining" themselves to our work is that most of us have to. It's almost impossible for a human not to define themselves by the one activity (work) that they have to spend the majority of their waking hours of their life doing. That's why it goes back to what UB said...you really have to enjoy what you do, even if its a learned enjoyment. Otherwise you might as well be the walking dead, which is exactly how I feel now; I feel like I should have been born in another century.

Originally Posted by DDTempest

If I had my preference, I would walk into a bar, grab a glass off the shelf, pour my own drink, and pay the cashier at the door before I left. Instead these establishment have two people between me and something I could and would do myself - a bartender and a server and both expect me to tip them 20% on top of the 300 - 600% markup on the glass of beer they are bringing me, slowly.

As I have said before, I generally tip well, but if you don't think you are making enough money then take a number and get in line.

This. I HATE eating out/going to bars, primarily because I have been a server and just don't like people waiting on me. I know its their choice, but it still seems like glorified slavery. I'd much rather do shit myself; if I am every incapacitated beyond doing simple day to day functions by myself permanently, I will find a way to kill myself. There is just no reason to live. Obviously this is an exaggeration to the point DD is making but I just think the whole thing is silly. That being said, as long as my waiter doesn't suck huge cock, I usually tip 20%, knowing that not only the waiters/servers checks depend on it, but many times barbacks/bussers/cooks get tipped out from those tips as well.