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Unread 05-12-2010, 04:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Fuck You, Arizona

I just got a $240 traffic violation in the mail from some private firm (violationmanagement.com) that handles violations on behalf of the Arizona Dept of Public Safety. It says under violation "Speed 69 In" (nothing else) and that I owe a $190 fine and a $50 service fee to the company sending me this letter (which apparently was already deducted from my credit card that I used to rent this vehicle).

Aside from the fact that I truly have no recollection of doing anything that could have gotten me this citation (apparently I "Speed 69'd" at some point), I'm enraged that some fucking camera is responsible for this. Fuck these nanny states and their traffic cameras. It's Orwellian bullshit. If I ever find out I'm dying of cancer or in some way basically reach a point where I feel like I have nothing to lose in life, I'm going to go on a camera-ruining rampage around the U.S. destroying every one of these stupid little traffic cameras I can point a gun at.

Do I have any recourse here? What happens if I don't pay the violation? It doesn't even make it clear what, exactly, I need to do. It just says "$190" in the column under "Fine Due 1A". There is no information on to who or where I am supposed to send this money. All it says is "we have supplied the [AZ Dept of Public Service] with your contact information, therefore transferring full liability for the payment of this violation to you." Well thanks, fuckfaces, but who am I supposed to mail a check to!?

At any rate, I plan to recoup my loss in this incident by spending as little money as possible anytime I am unfortunate enough to find myself in the state of Arizona in the future.
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Unread 05-12-2010, 04:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There's no number to call or anything? Just sounds a little fishy that it doesn't even include any of the basic contact information.

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Unread 05-12-2010, 05:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If it was already deducted, contact your credit card company and see if they can do something. Say it looks fraudulent and that you were not informed of the charge before it was deducted. If you mention the letter, be sure to point out its lack of information regarding the infraction as well as the "payable to" portion.
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Unread 05-12-2010, 05:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There's no number to call or anything? Just sounds a little fishy that it doesn't even include any of the basic contact information.
After re-reading the letter, I spotted an 800 number that I guess I'm supposed to call and settle the fine with the AZ Dept of Public Safety. But the fact that I had to comb over this mailing a few times before information on how to pay this violation jumped out at me is disturbing.

Ninja, regarding your idea, I think a chargeback would certainly get me my money back, but then there'd be an unpaid violation on my record. I believe if I got pulled over in Texas they could see this and potentially arrest me. If it was only an issue in Arizona, I'd probably just gamble.
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Unread 05-12-2010, 05:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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How odd, I read last week that they are about to shut that program down in July.

Looks like you were in AZ a little early. Shitty luck

Arizona to eliminate speed-enforcement cameras on freeways
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Unread 05-12-2010, 05:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Jesus... shitty luck indeed. It makes me hate their state a little less now though. Honestly... speed cameras on freeways? Christ... I wish I had known that. I drive fast as shit usually.
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Unread 05-12-2010, 09:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ya, that's bullshit to the extreme.

Was listening to Bubba the other day and he was ranting about the Florida camera system. Like this system (and every other one, I'd imagine), it is run by a third party company that is motivated only by their own profit margins. The state doesn't give a fuck because they get a cut (or maybe the entirety) of the fine while the company is left to charge who they please what they please.

There were even allegations in that instance of the yellow lights being sped up to encourage red-light running. I forget exactly what the claim was based in, but it wasn't some nut calling in. It was more like an independent study on a single intersection or something.

Either way, I'm with you here. This is enough to trigger a fit of rage.
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Unread 05-12-2010, 10:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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UB - I got one of these before I moved out of Arizona and never did anything about it. It literally came a week before I left the country, so I'm just going to say that I never got it (that is, if I ever move back to Arizona).

I wouldn't worry about it too much, but i'm not a legal expert.

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Unread 05-12-2010, 10:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde View Post
UB - I got one of these before I moved out of Arizona and never did anything about it. It came a week before I left the country, so I'm just going to say that I never got it (that is, if I ever move back to Arizona).

I wouldn't worry about it too much, but i'm not a legal expert.
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Unread 05-12-2010, 10:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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So you just didn't pay? Did anything happen? Is there a warrant out for you in AZ?
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Unread 05-12-2010, 10:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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We'll find out! I really have no idea to check though without acknowledging I received the ticket.

EDIT: I think after I changed my fwding address to my parents house they got a letter but it was just a reminder I think. I told them to throw it away.

Way I see it, it was a completely automated process and they have no way to confirm I actually received the letter. Burden of proof is on them. If I got pulled over, where I physically receive a ticket from an officer and sign to acknowledge such, it would be a much different story.

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Unread 05-12-2010, 11:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I have a buddy who has been pulled over twice only to learn that his license is suspended due to unpaid tickets that he didn't get (his address on his license was his parents' who had since moved). I'm pretty sure he just had his license taken until he paid them.

The moral of the story is, "I didn't get the ticket" isn't a valid excuse. If it were, I'm pretty sure no one would ever pay shit.
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Unread 05-13-2010, 12:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Time will tell! I wonder if SoD has any resources he can use to check the status of my license in AZ.

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Unread 05-13-2010, 07:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Blonde, that excuse will NOT fly. How stupid are you?
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Unread 05-13-2010, 08:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgazmo View Post
I have a buddy who has been pulled over twice only to learn that his license is suspended due to unpaid tickets that he didn't get (his address on his license was his parents' who had since moved). I'm pretty sure he just had his license taken until he paid them.

The moral of the story is, "I didn't get the ticket" isn't a valid excuse. If it were, I'm pretty sure no one would ever pay shit.
Also, if you go to court and "didn't know your license was suspended" the judge will tell you that its your responsibility to make sure that your license is in order before driving.

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Unread 05-13-2010, 08:51 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by f3lix View Post
Blonde, that excuse will NOT fly. How stupid are you?
In Arizona (where you are not from nor have you ever lived), I have talked to at least 5 people who have ignored it and nothing happened. So as I said, time will tell.

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Unread 05-13-2010, 09:39 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The thought that you trust "five" people (whom also would never update you when shit hits the fan) instead of finding out for yourself is quite disturbing to me.
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Unread 05-13-2010, 09:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Maybe you shouldn't break the fucking law in the first place.

No, but seriously, that sucks. Living in Taiwan I'm torn. Traffic related deaths here are common because nobody obeys the laws. Not only do they speed, people regularly run red lights and cut you off. This is scary when you're on a dinky scooter. Recently the government has installed traffic cameras because police officers simply weren't enforcing the laws. As a result accidents have gone down. So that's good. But on the other hand I hate knowing I'm being watched - it's like they're cheating or something. It also raises privacy issues and gives you a queasy feeling, as though you're living in a police state.
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Unread 05-13-2010, 12:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by f3lix View Post
instead of finding out for yourself is quite disturbing to me.
F3lix, I feel like sharing a beer with a friend without wiping the top first is disturbing to you.

That being said, you are right, I probably should look into it before driving in AZ or the States again. Still hoping SoD can look into that for me, to avoid a surely frustrating Skype call. But I don't think an unpaid traffic ticket by me is anything you need to worry yourself too much about.

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Unread 05-13-2010, 01:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Here's what my lawyer girlfriend had to say on the issue:

"Based on my research, the AZ ticket was completely unconstitutional because you have the right to face your accuser (clearly not a camera). Based on AZ law, I think the state is required to personally serve you - even for a traffic violation. So, if you ignore the ticket, they can't do anything unless they get a process server to come find you. Also, they are required to identify the driver of the vehicle. How do they know you were driving? I don't think that a mailed ticket will have any consequence at all unless they serve you in person. Most people don't know that. By signing the ticket and sending it in you are waiving personal service."
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Unread 05-13-2010, 01:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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More:

"My only concern is the rental car. I think that if you don't pay the ticket, the company will charge the rental company who will in turn charge you."
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Unread 05-13-2010, 02:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Some related and interesting links:

Arizona Photo Enforcement Ticket: How to Beat It and Keep Your Conscience Clear - Phoenix News - Valley Fever

Rental Car Companies Cashing In on Photo Enforcement! PhotoRadarScam Blog
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Unread 05-13-2010, 02:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The moral of the story is, "I didn't get the ticket" isn't a valid excuse. If it were, I'm pretty sure no one would ever pay shit.
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Blonde, that excuse will NOT fly. How stupid are you?
Hey guys i'm confused what do these mean?

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Unread 05-13-2010, 02:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Based on what I've read and what my gf has said, it sounds like they can't just serve you a ticket in the mail. By paying the ticket, you waive your right to a process server. By ignoring the ticket, the only way they can make you pay it is by serving it to you within four months. After the four months, the ticket becomes dismissed.

So what I think I'm going to do is let the $50 they charged my card slide (after all, I did, apparently, sign something that gave them the right to charge my card like that) and just not pay the AZ ticket. Now I just have to hope I don't get pulled over when I'm driving through AZ this summer which can probably be avoided by just having my Dad drive the AZ-leg on the way there and f3lix on the way back (you're still coming, right?)

Last edited by Ugly Bastard; 05-13-2010 at 02:30 PM.
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Unread 05-13-2010, 03:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Arizona Freeway Speed Cameras - Ticket Cameras: Red Light Cameras & Photo Radar

This article seems to have a lot of good info and agrees with the mailed thing not being valid. It also says that they'll pay a process server to find you, though, and it can result in a stiffer penalty (they mention a suspended license). Of course, I'm assuming this pertains to people living locally...can't imagine they'd worry about you.

My story about my buddy having a suspended license because his driver's license address wasn't correct completely goes against this, though. Not sure how that is...but I've given the fucker rides because of his lack of license before.
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