Who is going to hell? An argument for the Bible, Religion and God. - Page 32 - Nubblies.net Forums

Mr. Blonde · 05-12-2010, 10:20 PM

BDH, "A Letter to a Christian Nation" shipped 2 days ago. It will probably get to you today or tomorrow.

I went to the bookstore yesterday to pick up "More than a Carpenter", but alas, it had not come in yet. So I picked up A Brief History of Time and god is not Great by Christopher Hitchens.

I got an email 4 hours later that the book was in (which means it was probably sitting in a fucking box in the backroom) and that I could pick it up, so i'll get it this weekend.

BigDongedHoe · 05-13-2010, 12:47 AM

I thoroughly appreciate you sending me the book blonde. I plan on reading it right away and given the spare time I have I should have it read rather quickly.

I'll make sure to update with a review. I could of gotten this book for myself btw but I am thankful for you going out of your way to send it. I think you'll enjoy More Than a Carpenter

ninjaface · 05-13-2010, 12:57 AM

He'll enjoy ripping it apart with his intelect, although, it doesnt take a huge intelect to do so. Christianity is dumb.

ninjaface · 05-13-2010, 01:03 AM

HAHAHA Christianity is ajke and you, BDH, are the punch line! HA its fucking hilarious. Throw yourself in front of a train!

ninjaface · 05-13-2010, 01:03 AM

"a joke" is what i meant.

vaga1220 * · 05-13-2010, 01:39 AM

"ajke" Got the point across well enough imo.

Mr. Blonde · 05-16-2010, 12:36 PM

Author Sam Harris joins plot to have Pope arrested - Times Online

Mr. Blonde · 05-16-2010, 12:40 PM

I won't quit you, BDH

Thank you, r/atheism. This week, you converted me. : atheism

BigDongedHoe · 05-17-2010, 03:52 PM

Blonde,

Thank you for the book I received it in the mail today. I'm 20 pages into it and really enjoying it to this point. Sam Harris has provided some scriptures I hadn't read yet and also provided some that I had.

I can relate to a lot of what he says and furthermore I agree with it. Especially when he talks about "christian liberals" or "christian moderate". There is no fence riding, either you believe and follow Christ or you don't. Proverbs 3:5 can better explain where I'm coming from on this "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." If this was the case these people are doing the opposite. They are leaning on their own understanding or in essence putting there self above God. Pride and self-reliance is a sin that I feel is very prevalent in our faith. Some of these people may have the salvation of Christ but they are yet to know him because they don't pursue him through his word and teachings. They do not trust in God with all their heart but they rather lean on what their own understanding of something is.

Harris brings up a lot of OT scriptures which 5 or 6,000 years ago related better to that historical context. These shouldn't be ignored by us as believers but we should try to make sense of how that scripture can be applied to our life today. Many of the arguments he has made and the things he has said would of been things I would of sided with 100% before I believed by eyes of faith. Scripture meant nothing to me before I was a believer. Now that I read with eyes of faith scripture has a whole new meaning to me. Harris can't comprehend or accept certain things because he hasn't yet received the gift of faith.

I'll write and update more as I get further into the book. To this point I have enjoyed it and would guess to have it done by the end of the week.

Der Fuhrer · 05-17-2010, 10:39 PM

You're such a faggot, BDH. You elitist prick. Go fuck yourself in the ass with your eyes of faith. I'll take a new ipad as a gift and you can take your gift of faith and fuck off somewhere.

Mr. Blonde · 05-18-2010, 12:46 AM

Firstly, I plan on keeping this discussion civil and intellectual, even if other members don't.

I'm surprised he provided scriptures you haven't read yet, honestly. I would suggest you read the entire Bible, cover to cover ASAP as soon as you finish this book. There is very little logic imo in basing your entire life on a book you haven't read voraciously. I got a good overview of the Bible in church during most of my life, but I haven't read the whole thing yet; something I plan to do after I get back from my trip is buy one (as well as a Qur'an) and read them.

Either way, you should thank UB for the book suggestion. I have only read a lot of Sam Harris' articles and watched a lot of his videos online, but have not seen the book yet (remember, I didn't have any short books to suggest ---but I will read it soon). Being as I haven't read it, he may be better equipped to discuss some of the aspects of the book than myself, but there are some parts of your post I want to address.

Quote:

I can relate to a lot of what he says and furthermore I agree with it. Especially when he talks about "christian liberals" or "christian moderate". There is no fence riding, either you believe and follow Christ or you don't.

This is something i've been thinking about a lot, lately. About how people are so quick to label themselves Christians, yet engage in quite illicit behaviors, at least from the Bibles point of view, such as (most commonly) premarital sex and crime (studies have all been relatively the same basically, but I just found lists nonreligious inmates at only about 20%, the rest being religiously affiliated, Christian or not -- It's important to remember my beef is with all religion, not just Christianity.)

How come Christians get to participate in illicit behaviors, notably and in you case premarital sex, then still get to sit in their moral high horse by calling themselves Christians and ask for forgiveness? It's been proposed that the nonreligious are generally MORE moral than religious, as they recognize their duty to other humans, when the religious just have to ask forgiveness after they screw somebody over.

Quote:

Proverbs 3:5 can better explain where I'm coming from on this "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." If this was the case these people are doing the opposite. They are leaning on their own understanding or in essence putting there self above God. Pride and self-reliance is a sin that I feel is very prevalent in our faith. Some of these people may have the salvation of Christ but they are yet to know him because they don't pursue him through his word and teachings. They do not trust in God with all their heart but they rather lean on what their own understanding of something is.

There is a bit I disagree with here, firstly: Why are you so hesitant to attribute the great things man has accomplished to a god? Where is this need to prostrate, beg and abjectness coming from? There is nothing wrong with pride and self-reliance IMO. I'm doing pretty well with it.

"They do not trust in God with all their heart but thy rather lean on what their own understanding of something is" -- Isn't this what preachers and priests do on a regular basis? What gives them a higher moral or subjective interpretation than anybody else? Do you seriously believe in the infallibility of, say, the Pope, or even your pastor? The huge amount of Christian demoninations alone immediately casts doubt on allusion that Christians shouldn't be allowed to interpret the Bible how they wish. Who is? Where does that authority come from?

Quote:

Harris brings up a lot of OT scriptures which 5 or 6,000 years ago related better to that historical context.

An omniscient god can see the future.

Quote:

Scripture meant nothing to me before I was a believer. Now that I read with eyes of faith scripture has a whole new meaning to me.

I wouldn't say scripture means nothing to me, nor would any atheist with his head screwed on right. It of course has it's value, as i've stated in understanding the historical mindsets and happenings of our ancestors and developing humanity. It has a new meaning to you because you WANT it to and you're surrounded by people who are not dissenting. It's a logical fallacy called argumentum ad consequentiam and it's widely used in religion (among many other things) and the basis of my current signature. We all have emotions and things we want to be true, but the simple fact of the matter, as an intelligent and mature species, is that to progress we have to be true to our intellects, not our slavish emotions.

Quote:

Harris can't comprehend or accept certain things because he hasn't yet received the gift of faith.

BDH, faith is not a virtue. I know Christianity wants you to think it is, no, NEEDS you to think it is in order to exist, but it's simply not. Faith is tantamount to ignorance, or at the very best refusal to acknowledge something you know about. Forcefully pushing it in the back of your head and not paying it any credence, but you're a smart guy, and that feeling is not going to go away. This is a passage from "god is not Great", by Christopher Hitchens that I just read yesterday:

"If one must have faith in order to believe something, or believe IN something, then the likelihood of that something having any truth or value is considerably diminished. The harder work of inquiry, proof, and demonstration is infinitely more rewarding, and has confronted us with findings far more "miraculous" and "transcendent" than any theology."

Der Fuhrer · 05-18-2010, 12:05 PM

You can't argue intellectually with someone when they think they have received a special "gift of faith" from God, that only certain people are fortunate enough to have. You can't argue intellectually with someone who uses the term "eyes of faith".

You're the exact same Blonde, except on the exact other end of the religious spectrum. In other words you are a faggot, prick asshole, who thinks you have understanding beyond that of others. I'll give BDH this, I still read his posts in this thread. Yours, however, I do not.

BDH's posts really pissed me off because, to me, it appeared that he was being an asshole. "I have 'eyes of faith' and someone without 'eyes of faith' could never possibly understand anything until they are blessed like me and receieve a 'gift of faith'." Well fuck you. I'd love to have eyes of fucking faith, but what? God just loves you more than me so you were given the gift of faith but not I? Fuck you again.

Mr. Blonde · 05-18-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Fuhrer

You're the exact same Blonde, except on the exact other end of the religious spectrum. In other words you are a faggot, prick asshole, who thinks you have understanding beyond that of others. I'll give BDH this, I still read his posts in this thread. Yours, however, I do not.

If by "understanding" you mean "lack of belief and desire to discuss religion", then I agree with you. I do not think it makes me a faggot prick asshole.

If you'd like me to act like a faggot prick asshole, however, I personally think you're a member of the wrong forum. Now kindly leave this discussion to grown-ups.

Der Fuhrer · 05-18-2010, 12:18 PM

I don't know wtf that is, but ok. Ah, Blonde, you may be a faggot prick asshole (there's no denying it, asshole), but I'll give you this, at least you never say shit like eyes of faith and gift of faith. Good lord it makes me want to vomit.

But don't mind me. I'm just here to add colorfully commentary. You can continue your futile master debate.

THEINCREDIBLEdork · 05-18-2010, 05:43 PM

There should be a 255 character limit on Blonde's posts until he passes a writing class.

I literally think he NEEDS to focus on better STUCTURE and rely less physical EMPHASIS.

SittinOnDubsWGW · 05-18-2010, 07:15 PM

That video makes me want to punch muslims in the face.

*to put in context, I meant the vid of the muslim extremists attacking lars vilks*

Repugnant Abomination · 05-19-2010, 07:29 AM

Self-reliance is quintessentially American. It's not a sin, it's what makes us great.

BigDongedHoe · 05-19-2010, 09:59 AM

It's also idolatry (ME first). So many people don't want to relinquish control of their lives to God. Most people also can't fathom putting something else before them self. It's something that I personally struggle with everyday.

Repugnant Abomination · 05-19-2010, 11:11 AM

There's no such thing as a selfless act. Your relationship with God is transactional. You provide something, he provides something - it's mutually beneficial. The same concept applies to friendships, relationships. Would you stay in a relationship that makes you miserable? Only if you're a masochist or riddled with guilt. By putting God first, you're really putting yourself first because it's the best thing you can do for yourself. See the oxymoron? Being "selfless" earns you something. In relationships it just earns you companionship, maybe sex. Not quite eternal paradise, but still.

That you don't do it for the reward is irrelevant. That it "just so happens" you'll be eternally rewarded is still being rewarded.

BigDongedHoe · 05-19-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

Your relationship with God is transactional. You provide something, he provides something - it's mutually beneficial.

Thats where you are wrong. There is absolutely nothing I could provide to get his love, no work or doings. All I have to do is accept Jesus Christ as my savior and I am forgiven and a new image in Christ. Why (some) Christians do the things they do are to know Christ more. Did I want to give up sex, alcohol, and other things? No not necessarily. I didn't give them up for me I gave them up for God. That's not to say I don't still struggle in some areas (alcohol in specific right now) but my relationship with God is perfect because he see's me perfect regardless of the sins I have (and will continue) to commit. Christians fight sin not for own personal gain but for gaining knowledge in knowing Christ and having Him reveal himself to us more.

Mr. Blonde · 05-19-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

There is absolutely nothing I could provide to get his love, no work or doings. All I have to do is..................................

Come on, man.

malibu · 05-19-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

I didn't give them up for me I gave them up for God. That's not to say I don't still struggle in some areas (alcohol in specific right now)

I've never understood why people feel they have to completely give up drinking just to be Christian. It says in the Bible that people used to drink. I can see not drinking just to get plastered, fall-down drunk, but what's really wrong with having a beer now and then or a glass of wine? Jesus did, or at least the Bible says he did. So BDH, are you trying to not drink at all? Because I believe the idea behind that theory is to not be a lush, I wouldn't see why you'd have to give up drinking altogether... I don't know. You're choice, pal.

BigDongedHoe · 05-19-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malibu

I've never understood why people feel they have to completely give up drinking just to be Christian. It says in the Bible that people used to drink. I can see not drinking just to get plastered, fall-down drunk, but what's really wrong with having a beer now and then or a glass of wine? Jesus did, or at least the Bible says he did. So BDH, are you trying to not drink at all? Because I believe the idea behind that theory is to not be a lush, I wouldn't see why you'd have to give up drinking altogether... I don't know. You're choice, pal.

I'm not saying drinking is wrong. Drinking isn't a sin and going to a bar isn't a sin. I'll gladly step foot in bars and have beer and wine or even a cocktail. Drinking to the point of getting drunk or losing self-control is where you the line should be drawn. Basically the line where you feel Christ has convicted you. I still struggle with getting pretty drunk at times but it's a hard habit to break entirely.

BigDongedHoe · 05-19-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Come on, man.

John 14:6.. Scripture depicts it pretty clearly

ninjaface · 05-19-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

John 14:6.. Scripture depicts it pretty clearly

I think you missed Blonde's point completely.

Read it nice and slow. If you still don't get it, I'll spell it out for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDongedHoe

There is absolutely nothing I could provide to get his love, no work or doings. All I have to do is......

05-12-2010, 10:20 PM	#776 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	BDH, "A Letter to a Christian Nation" shipped 2 days ago. It will probably get to you today or tomorrow. I went to the bookstore yesterday to pick up "More than a Carpenter", but alas, it had not come in yet. So I picked up A Brief History of Time and god is not Great by Christopher Hitchens. I got an email 4 hours later that the book was in (which means it was probably sitting in a fucking box in the backroom) and that I could pick it up, so i'll get it this weekend.
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

05-13-2010, 12:47 AM	#777 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	I thoroughly appreciate you sending me the book blonde. I plan on reading it right away and given the spare time I have I should have it read rather quickly. I'll make sure to update with a review. I could of gotten this book for myself btw but I am thankful for you going out of your way to send it. I think you'll enjoy More Than a Carpenter
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two.

05-13-2010, 01:39 AM	#781 (permalink)
vaga1220 * *Dislikes ham Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: HELL 666 Posts: 1,518 Internets: 60790	"ajke" Got the point across well enough imo.
	Putting the sensual in non-consensual.

05-16-2010, 12:36 PM	#782 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	Author Sam Harris joins plot to have Pope arrested - Times Online
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

05-16-2010, 12:40 PM	#783 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	I won't quit you, BDH Thank you, r/atheism. This week, you converted me. : atheism
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

05-13-2010, 12:57 AM	#778 (permalink)
ninjaface Level 20 Holothetan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Space Posts: 5,245 Internets: 210144	He'll enjoy ripping it apart with his intelect, although, it doesnt take a huge intelect to do so. Christianity is dumb.

05-13-2010, 01:03 AM	#779 (permalink)
ninjaface Level 20 Holothetan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Space Posts: 5,245 Internets: 210144	HAHAHA Christianity is ajke and you, BDH, are the punch line! HA its fucking hilarious. Throw yourself in front of a train!

05-13-2010, 01:03 AM	#780 (permalink)
ninjaface Level 20 Holothetan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Space Posts: 5,245 Internets: 210144	"a joke" is what i meant.

05-17-2010, 03:52 PM	#784 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	Blonde, Thank you for the book I received it in the mail today. I'm 20 pages into it and really enjoying it to this point. Sam Harris has provided some scriptures I hadn't read yet and also provided some that I had. I can relate to a lot of what he says and furthermore I agree with it. Especially when he talks about "christian liberals" or "christian moderate". There is no fence riding, either you believe and follow Christ or you don't. Proverbs 3:5 can better explain where I'm coming from on this "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." If this was the case these people are doing the opposite. They are leaning on their own understanding or in essence putting there self above God. Pride and self-reliance is a sin that I feel is very prevalent in our faith. Some of these people may have the salvation of Christ but they are yet to know him because they don't pursue him through his word and teachings. They do not trust in God with all their heart but they rather lean on what their own understanding of something is. Harris brings up a lot of OT scriptures which 5 or 6,000 years ago related better to that historical context. These shouldn't be ignored by us as believers but we should try to make sense of how that scripture can be applied to our life today. Many of the arguments he has made and the things he has said would of been things I would of sided with 100% before I believed by eyes of faith. Scripture meant nothing to me before I was a believer. Now that I read with eyes of faith scripture has a whole new meaning to me. Harris can't comprehend or accept certain things because he hasn't yet received the gift of faith. I'll write and update more as I get further into the book. To this point I have enjoyed it and would guess to have it done by the end of the week.
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two. Last edited by BigDongedHoe; 05-17-2010 at 03:54 PM.

05-17-2010, 10:39 PM	#785 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	You're such a faggot, BDH. You elitist prick. Go fuck yourself in the ass with your eyes of faith. I'll take a new ipad as a gift and you can take your gift of faith and fuck off somewhere.

05-18-2010, 12:05 PM	#787 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	You can't argue intellectually with someone when they think they have received a special "gift of faith" from God, that only certain people are fortunate enough to have. You can't argue intellectually with someone who uses the term "eyes of faith". You're the exact same Blonde, except on the exact other end of the religious spectrum. In other words you are a faggot, prick asshole, who thinks you have understanding beyond that of others. I'll give BDH this, I still read his posts in this thread. Yours, however, I do not. BDH's posts really pissed me off because, to me, it appeared that he was being an asshole. "I have 'eyes of faith' and someone without 'eyes of faith' could never possibly understand anything until they are blessed like me and receieve a 'gift of faith'." Well fuck you. I'd love to have eyes of fucking faith, but what? God just loves you more than me so you were given the gift of faith but not I? Fuck you again.
	Last edited by Der Fuhrer; 05-18-2010 at 12:08 PM.

05-18-2010, 12:18 PM	#789 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	I don't know wtf that is, but ok. Ah, Blonde, you may be a faggot prick asshole (there's no denying it, asshole), but I'll give you this, at least you never say shit like eyes of faith and gift of faith. Good lord it makes me want to vomit. But don't mind me. I'm just here to add colorfully commentary. You can continue your futile master debate.
	Last edited by Der Fuhrer; 05-18-2010 at 12:22 PM.

05-18-2010, 05:43 PM	#790 (permalink)
THEINCREDIBLEdork Emperor Meow Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,352 Internets: 290966	There should be a 255 character limit on Blonde's posts until he passes a writing class. I literally think he NEEDS to focus on better STUCTURE and rely less physical *EMPHASIS.*
	#YOLO

05-18-2010, 07:15 PM	#791 (permalink)
SittinOnDubsWGW I make bad decisions. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Desert Posts: 3,018 Internets: 108015	That video makes me want to punch muslims in the face. to put in context, I meant the vid of the muslim extremists attacking lars vilks
	Last edited by SittinOnDubsWGW; 05-18-2010 at 07:23 PM.

05-19-2010, 07:29 AM	#792 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Almost there... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,979 Internets: 164547	Self-reliance is quintessentially American. It's not a sin, it's what makes us great.

05-19-2010, 09:59 AM	#793 (permalink)
BigDongedHoe Sex Kitten Milf fuuucck Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,704 Internets: 55974	It's also idolatry (ME first). So many people don't want to relinquish control of their lives to God. Most people also can't fathom putting something else before them self. It's something that I personally struggle with everyday.
	There's life and then there is Cubs baseball, it's a chore to seperate the two.

05-19-2010, 11:11 AM	#794 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Almost there... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,979 Internets: 164547	There's no such thing as a selfless act. Your relationship with God is transactional. You provide something, he provides something - it's mutually beneficial. The same concept applies to friendships, relationships. Would you stay in a relationship that makes you miserable? Only if you're a masochist or riddled with guilt. By putting God first, you're really putting yourself first because it's the best thing you can do for yourself. See the oxymoron? Being "selfless" earns you something. In relationships it just earns you companionship, maybe sex. Not quite eternal paradise, but still. That you don't do it for the reward is irrelevant. That it "just so happens" you'll be eternally rewarded is still being rewarded.
	Last edited by Repugnant Abomination; 05-19-2010 at 11:29 AM.