Wikileaks Shenanigans

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

...If you let the rest of the world burn the fire will eventually spread to your doorstep....The universal values of liberty, freedom and democracy have to be pressed in all corners of the globe, because it IS what all people want, even if government controlled polls suggest otherwise. You need to wake up, buddy. There's a reason we're interfering in, for example, Iran's internal politics - because we don't want a theocratic autocracy whose president wants to bring about apocalyptic conditions for the return of the Islamic messiah to acquire nuclear technology. If that pisses a bunch of extremists off then so be it.

In line with a lot of being said here, but on the same line of "government controlled polls", our own government also hides a lot of information from us that deserves to be seen. Is it too idealistic of me to desire the spreading liberty, freedom and democracy without violating them at the same time? Because by spying on our allies and violating UN policies (revealed in Wikileaks), we're doing the opposite of what you purport.

Originally Posted by SinisterKid

The precedent for being considered jahiliyya is inconsistent and depends on the preconceived notions of whatever extremist is declaring it, but it has facilitated the unification of various groups. Repugnant Abomination offered Quranic scripture that obviously states the murder of disbelievers is against Sharia, but the would be leaders of al-Qaeda very early on found clever ways to leverage and misinterpret other portions of the Quran and Sharia to influence young Muslims into committing terrorist acts.

One thing I distinctly remember thinking while painstakingly reading Islam: A Short History (Good read...kinda.) was how ridiculously god damn confusing the constant re-interpretations of the Qur'anic scripture were. It seemed that every hundred or so years of different rulers changed dramatically depending on which particular person was in power, whether it was the government leader or the caliph, and which sect was in charge. I really probably should read it again to try and make some sense of it.

What it basically boils down to, at the time of conception (and I feel the same with many religious texts, stripped from all the bullshit), is that Mohammed wasn't a terribly bad guy, and I agreed with a lot of his motivation behind what he did. That being said, most scripture has been manipulated and man-fucked to the point of infinite interpretations, none of which can be verified, obviously, because of a complete lack of any sort of god. I am digressing, however...

Originally Posted by SinisterKid

Repugnant Abomination offered Quranic scripture that obviously states the murder of disbelievers is against Sharia

Certainly, but this isn't by any means how most Muslims view it. Could anyone with personal experience enlighten us to the general attitude among most Muslims they have encountered? In regard to spreading territory, the concept of dhimmi's's, etc.


Sorry this post is kind of a mess, had to type it out quick.