[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

My question is, with so much wrong in the world (i.e. global warming, vegetarianism, homosexulaity, wars, fiscal policy, interpretation of fas 157, and Rebecca Black), why champion the religious one? To me, religion seems relatively harmless in comparison to other issues, at least in America. Perhaps if we were back in the 1600s when religion was stifling scientific progression, I'd see your point. The only threat religion has today is in countries where the people are so crazy they kill each other over it. Unfortunately, you don't have much a voice in those places. If you did, they would kill you.

I understand that religious people are wrong. I understand they are basing their beliefs, their morals, and a large portion of their lifestyle on a fictitious being living in the sky. I realize that could be dangerous, and in some countries it is dangerous. Fortunately, the religions of the western world are mostly peaceful, and scientists today do not consider the metaphysical when conducting scientific research. The point is that religion and religious people don't really hurt people in America. However, people are wrong about a lot of shit in nearly every subject area (see: the election of Obama), and in many of these cases, people are getting hurt as a result.

I found this on Reddit based on the upcoming "Draw Muhammad Day" from last year. It might explain things to you a little better than I can. And I didn't write it, so maybe Mist can get past the second sentence.

"I am questioning if you have nothing better to do with your life than to express your free speech thats doing nothing, absolutely nothing for you."


Look, I can play this game, too. How about we change express your free speech to worship an imaginary God, and I can turn the question right around back to you. However, for atheists, it goes a little deeper than that.

You see, there are many of us (not just on Reddit, but across the planet) who don't just see religion as a harmless little indulgence, a sad sort of psychosis which infects its victims with a benign delirium. The fact is, we see it precisely the same way we see psychics, homeopathy, and other related woo-- latent on the small scale, but extremely dangerous on the large scale.

In all cases, we see them as an active enemy of the most positive aspects of humanity: growth, knowledge, inquiry, and freedom of expression and thought. The difference between organized religion and homeopathy, though, is that in one case you're dealing with ignorance and self delusion which makes people take imaginary medicine, while in the other case you're dealing with ignorance and self delusion which, on a daily basis, is used as justification for violence and crimes against humanity.

To put it shortly: when someone "overdoses" on a "homeopathic remedy," they waste a few bucks and ingest a handful of water pills. When someone overdoses on Islam, homosexuals are stoned to death for the crime of being born with the wrong urges, women are beaten and abused for the crime of seeking an education, and innocent people are murdered for the crimes of thought, writing, and art.

In all cases, we also recognize the most damning implication of your particular form of woo-worship-- the potential for damage to children. We simply can't refuse to fight these battles (be they religious or otherwise) now out of convenience or propriety, because every day that passes means the continued indoctrination and stultification of the minds of children too young to know that they're being systematically blinded as they walk down a path blazed, paved, and kept in high maintenance by the blind.

When you deal with Reddit (and with the thinkers and do-ers of the modern world as a whole), you're dealing with a community which places a high value on the scientific method and on establishing truth based on observable evidence and demonstrable patterns and tendency. As such, most of us don't buy the "I'm a Muslim/Christian/Jew, but only the good parts" line. If that's way you want to live your life, that's fine... we all have our hypocrisies. However, when you choose to support a given worldview in speech, thought, writing, and practice, you aren't just propping up the form of the system which may exist in your mind and heart; you're propping up the system as it exists throughout the world, aiding in its dissemination and growth, even if unintentionally. Given the tenets of your faith (not the tenets you choose to live by, but the established tenets of the faith as they are written), this is, frankly, unacceptable.

For example, in Islam, the penalty for apostasy is death. Whether you choose to honor this particular tenet of Islam is irrelevant, as your ignoring it doesn't mean you're a progressive Muslim-- it means that you identify as a Muslim, but do not adhere to the faith in its entirety and choose to ignore the passages which make you uncomfortable. This is a far cry from adhering to the laws of Allah as established by The Prophet. This alone is enough to make many of us (myself included) declare ourselves to be an enemy of Islam, as at no time, in no place, is it acceptable to decree that death is a just and required punishment for those who've engaged in nothing more than freedom of thought. This is to say nothing, of course, of actually practicing such barbarity.

We could go down the list of crimes against humanity outlined in Sharia, but I don't feel it necessary to belabor the point.

Islam is not alone in this-- in my mind (as well as the minds of many other secularists), anyone who would, at this point, continue to support the Catholic church, in essence or practice, has much for which to answer. This can (and should) be said of Jews concerning Israeli actions in Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, as well as "God fearing" protestants concerning the systematic oppression of homosexuals in what they like to call the "bastion of freedom," the United States. I say this now only to ensure you that the atheist distaste and often outright vocal hostility for something that's "doing nothing, absolutely nothing for you" is not limited to your faith; it's open to absolutely every faith and worldview which brings unnecessary harm to others by legitimizing hatred and nonsense. It's just that your particular faith tends to make more a spectacle of their own particular psychosis than others, meaning retaliations tend to be more of a spectacle in themselves.
Last, I'd like to address a particularly childish slight you embedded in your comment:
many redditors need to get a life.

Most Redditors HAVE a life, and a large portion of us see no evidence to indicate that we'll ever have a life OUTSIDE of this life. It's for this reason that we wage our battles the way we do-- sure, we could just let what's happening concerning Islam and free speech slide, say "it isn't our problem" or "I don't need to offend anyone even if I am pissed." That's the easy way out. Instead, some of us take it upon ourselves to fight for the ethics of liberty and freedom in whatever way we can... if that method happens to be bringing the fight to the submissions and comments on Reddit, then so be it! If not today, when? If we ever hope to see this world change for the better, it MUST be today. At least we're doing SOMETHING, and that something is not, as many people of faith like to claim, pointless or preaching to the choir. Sharing anger or distaste is a process of galvanization. It's a process which encourages OTHERS to speak out, loud and proud, against this sickness, and to do so with the confidence that they aren't alone. It's a process which encourages thought and discussion, and provides individuals with a way to refine their thoughts and thought processes.

In summation, your choice (and the choice of the OP) to paint the secularists involved in this battle of ideas as nothing more than online trolls without a life, looking for karma by being offensive, is nothing more than absolute bullshit used to cover the fact that the ethical ground and moral justifications on which you stand are about as steady as a two-legged stool.