Why 'Californiacation' Is Better Than 'By The Way' - Nubblies.net Forums

Ugly Bastard · 05-19-2003, 11:59 AM

Firstly, let me say that for those of you who do not really give a shit about the Red Hot Chili Peppers, or their last two albums, "By The Way" and "Californication"; do not even bother reading this, 'cause it'll just be a waste of your time.

Another disclaimer, this one for you Peppers' fans, and friends of mine: I think "By The Way" is an abso-fucking-lutely wonderful compilation of sweet-sweet fucking music...I just don't think it's as good as "Californication".

That said, I press on.

_____________________________________

I notice that quite a few members of this board (namely the one's who greatly admire the Red Hot Chili Peppers...such as myself) seem to think that the album "By The Way" is not only better than "Californication", but quite possibly the greatest album ever.

(I quote this from tonguegina only to have some sort of a source for this post...tongue, don't take it personally, I just found this post by you sooner than I could find anyone else's):

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted by tonguegina:
thier latest album, 'By the Way'...quite possibly the greatest album ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sorta think this is bass-ackwards. A lot of "important" people agree with me too. This is illustrated in the fact that, Californication Won Best Album at the Grammy's whilst By The Way was not even nominated for Best Album at the Grammy's.

But in the end, who really gives a shit about what the Academy thinks. They're probably a bunch of assholes anyway; after all, they didn't even nominate a wonderful album (By The Way) for Best Album at the Grammy's this year.

So I came up with a way I think I can possibly illustrate the point I am trying to make here. I will compare each track of each album side my side with their respective track numbers, and we'll see which album is better:

A Comparison: 'By The Way' and 'Californication'

By The Way:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>01-By The Way-Helluva song, but it's no 'Around the World'.
<LI>02-Universally Speaking-In my opinion, one of the weaker songs on this album, which really says something, because this song is good. But nevertheless, not quite as good as 'Parallel Universe'.
<LI>03-This Is The Place-It sucks for this song that it got paired up with one of my personal Peppers' favorites, 'Scar Tissue', because this really is a gem of a song, one of the upper 50% on this album.
<LI>04-Dosed-God bless this song, and everything it stands for. WINNER...easily.
<LI>05-Don't Forget Me-I say, WINNER, but I still insist this track is overrated.
<LI>06-The Zephyr Song-When I first heard this album, this track was my favorite song. Unfortunately for it though, it's paired with the phenomenal title-track from it's rival CD.
<LI>07-Can't Stop-WINNER, 'nuff said.
<LI>08-I Could Die For You-Not what I'd call a "horrible song", but it's no 'Porcelain'.
<LI>09-Midnight-A truly great song, and for that, I give it a prize. WINNER
<LI>10-Throw Away Your Television-I'm gonna go ahead and be honest with you now. I hate this song. I really do...
<LI>11-Cabron-Eh, I'm really not a fan. Ten and Eleven on this CD aren't really all that great.
<LI>12-Tear-Jesse and the Rippers, baby. Great song. Easy decision here. WINNER
<LI>13-On Mercury-We regret to inform you...you've lost.
<LI>14-Minor Thing-"It's just a Minor Thing, and I'm a minor king". WINNER
<LI>15-Warm Tape-'Road Trippin'' is way too good...
<LI>16-Venice Queen-I'll tell you what. I could just throw this song out of the competition, because 'Californication' does not field a 16th song for competition. But I won't do that. WINNER...by default. (I will say though, this is a really good song, so 'Californication's' 16th track would have had to be a gem to top this one).

Californication:
<LI>01-Around The World-Kick-ass song, makes you want to rock-out like none-other. WINNER
<LI>02-Parallel Universe-I love the intro with the guitar. God bless this song. WINNER
<LI>03-Scar Tissue-Quite possibly my favorite Red Hot Chili Peppers song. WINNER
<LI>04-Otherside-Although this song may be one of the top two or three tracks on this album, it got paired up with the best track from 'By The Way', thus, it loses.
<LI>05-Get On Top-I'll be honest, neither of the number five songs are that great from either of these albums. Don't get me wrong, they're great songs....but when you compare them to the rest of the Peppers' songs, they both tend to lack.
<LI>06-Californication-It pains me to see 'The Zephyr Song' lose...it really does. WINNER
<LI>07-Easily-This is another damn good song. The guitar solo at the end is one of the Frusiante's finest. But one beautiful guitar solo fails to beat one beautiful song, 'Can't Stop'.
<LI>08-Porcelain-This song is so unique when compared to the rest of the Pepper's songs. It's tracks like these which really make this album wonderful. Without some variation, CDs (and bands for that matter) blow-dick. WINNER
<LI>09-Emitremmus-The name of this song is cooler than any name from either of these CDs. It's just too bad that cool names can't beat cool songs.
<LI>10-I Like Dirt-As long as this song doesn't sound like 'Hanson's M-Bop', it easily beats 'Throw Away Your Television'. Well guess what, it doesn't sound like 'Hanson's M-Bop'... WINNER
<LI>11-This Velvet Glove-It's not that 'This Velvet Glove' won, it's that 'Cabron' lost. WINNER
<LI>12-Savior-Not a horrible song really, but it's no 'Tear'.
<LI>13-Purple Stain-Wins, but I'm not too sure if it deserves to. It's one of the lower 50% songs on the album, but not quite as low as 'On Mercury' comparatively. WINNER
<LI>14-Right On Time-In my mind, this is the closest battle between the CDs. While this is a really really cool song, I gotta go 'Minor Thing' here. Sorry...
<LI>15-Road Trippin'-I love this song. This is easily one of my Top 5 Favorite Chili Peppers' songs, and quite possibly my favorite song on the album (it battles with 'Scar Tissue'). WINNER[/list]
Let's tally up the totals...shall we?

Californication-9
By The Way-7

Now, I feel I've been pretty un-biased during this review. And I feel I have pretty fairly stated why Californication is a better album than By The Way. Of course, it's all up to your own personal view. This is just how one simple person sees things...

I would like to close with a little something that sort of quirks me a bit. I've heard a small handful of people say that 'By The Way' is maybe the Greatest Album of All Time. I mean seriously, can you really put "By The Way" up there with Led Zeppelin's 'IV' or Jimi Hendrix Experience's 'Are You Experienced' or Nirvana's 'Nevermind' or Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's Hearts Club Band' or Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side Of The Moon' or...well, you get the idea.

What I'm saying is: Sure, "By The Way" is a phenomenal album. But (in my opinion) it's not as good as "Californication". And in the vast majority of the world's opinion, it's not the Greatest Album of All Time. So if you want to say that 'By The Way' is your favourite album of all time, go right ahead. But honestly...may God help if you truly think it's the Best Album of All-Time.

-Ugly Bastard

Titan · 05-19-2003, 12:46 PM

Thanks for taking the time to psycho-analyze the situation. I found it quite interesting. Your mode of track-matching, however, is completely bizassackwards. You can't really just go down the line and compare whatever songs correspond track-wise. That's basically the same as randomly throwing all of the songs in the air and then grabbing two and comparing them... then you could essentially grab "Warm Tape" and compare it to "Scar Tissue" in which obviously there is no comparison. Do you see what I'm saying? It's not like they planned for Track 1 to be similar to Track 1 but better on the next album. Apples and Oranges. Not to mention in doing so you've managed to pair up collossal titles like "Dosed" and "Otherside", "Zephyr Song" and "Californication", "Easily" and "Can't Stop", "I Could Die For You" and "Porcelain", "By the Way" and "Around the World"... we can't get anywhere with this, it's far too circumstantial. I think rather, you could establish a point system (this always seems to work) and just grade every song separately, then tally up the totals (not that you should do this... I'm just idealizing). Plus you've already stated your opinion quite well so there's no need.

I also sense (greatly) that this whole thing was based very subjectively. That is because, even though you're attempting to grade on "greatness" and not "favouritism" it is impossible to be 100% unsubjective (or objective); subjectivity is everywhere, you can't escape it. And before pliedes brings in math and equations, it's not about the BINARIES of being subjective or not subjective, but rather it is on a scale of subjectivity/objectivity. A spectrum which probably goes infinitely in each direction and has some kind of inhumanly comprehensible 0. Being objective however is the only way that "true greatness" can be judged... but wait... I just said judged, that means that there is still obviously some apparent level of subjectivity... so... what are we to do? Obviously to think of "greatness" is to think of all the things that supposedly make music great... in order to stay away from personal likings you would have to judge by skill, relevancy, creativity, innovativity, user friendliness... yet all of these things are still bound by subjectivity.

We can come to an almost agreement for many things... like, "Dosed" is an amazing beautiful song and was done very tastefully and creatively, it is very unique, and therefore it deserves to be called "good" and not just "I like it"... EVEN STILL this must be based on opinion, even if you take out the fact that this song blatantly gives you a right-1-2 emotionally. It is impossible to come to a realistic conclusion of how these albums stack up as "The Greatest Albums of All Time" unless you take into account a popular census (as gay as that would be) and I doubt we're going to poll the world about this so all we have left to do is to say that Ugly Bastard's opinion is that "Californication" is the more appropriate candidate for "Greatest Album" than "By the Way". My opinion differs and I believe that "By the Way" is "better". I think it just barely has more relevant and well-done tracks than "Californication" *coughcoughsubjectivitycough*. The valid and coherent variety that was established in this album plus the professionalism and innovativity in which it was audially put forth is enough for me to judge it as a very great album. I do not feel that "By the Way" is the greatest album of all time, but it's definitely in the top... 25 I'd say... (I'll give a little room for albums I haven't heard but may be better). Personally "One Hot Minute" is my favourite RHCP album, because it is "right up my alley", "my bag", "my cup of tea".

In conclusion, we can argue about what is realistically "best" all day long but it's still just going to be opinion, which is fine of course. I respect your opinion Ugly Bastard, but my opinion is not the same. "By the Way" compared to "Californication" to me is kind of like a Buddhist life compared to a normal other life. The Buddhist life, in an attempt to acheive tranquility, is much more borderline, not so many extreme highs and extreme lows. This compares to "By the Way" except there are many extreme highs. "Californication" has more lows (for me) and they pull down the overall greatness of the album just a hint more than "By the Way". Seriously, these albums are a close battle, they are both two of the most amazing albums.

Ugly Bastard · 05-19-2003, 01:09 PM

Titan-

Nice post, I respect your opinion. My goal when making this thread was not to force someone to like Californication more than By The Way. It was more to defend Californication a little bit. All I ever hear about, is what a good album By The Way is, I sort of felt Californication had been pushed to the side a little bit; so to combat this, I (being one who likes Californication more than By The Way) tried to illustrate why I have such feelings.

As far as the point system goes compareded to the track-track system: you got me on that one. I was actually going to do both, and rate each song, and add them up. But when I composed the beast, I forgot to do that, which sorta pisses me off. But I can see what you're saying. Just because Californication has 9 winners over By The Way's 7, it could be skewed if every one of By The Way's loses were by a slim margin, whereas their wins were by landslides.

In conclusion, I think we've seen a nice point-counterpoint in the above two threads. I stand by my subjective opinion, and am to assume that most people who read this thread, will continue to stand by theirs. I just hope that we all can open our eyes enough to realize that "By The Way" probably isn't the Greatest Album of All-Time.

-Ugly Bastard

Combat Chuck · 05-20-2003, 12:13 AM

Great posts all around.

I have to say, I love Californication. Love it to pieces. But By The Way, in my subjective opinion is, not by far, the better of the two.

I really can't say anything else. Titan has already covered all the bases for the subjective opinion and the kinda skewed basis for the ratings, but it's all in opinion.

One thing that I must say is, I think that the Academy honored Californication because of the return of Frusciante and the attention that that garnered. It marked the return of the originals, and it was such a damn good album, that it marked the return of what people had been yearning for. I mean, what was the gap in between Blood, Sugar, Sex, and Magik and Californication? That's my reasoning behind that move by the Academy.

tonguegina · 05-20-2003, 12:15 AM

Basicly, for me, the Red Hot Chili Peppers are the end all, be all of professional musicians. I can easily say that they are my favorite band of all time. I don't care who else you throw out there, the Beatles, Led Zepplin, or even Pink Floyd. Sure these are all phenominal bands and most likely noone agrees with me, it's just my personal taste. And along with that come my two favorite albums, 'Californication' and 'By the Way'. Personally, 'By the Way' beats 'Californication' by a slim margin. When I say it's the "greatest album of all-time" that's because I personally believe that. I know that most likely no one else does, but that's how my mind works. I can't bring objectivity to these things...that's why I haven't made that review of Third Eye Blind's first album yet, I know it'd be completely subjective (I think I got those strait).

Anywho, when I make claims such as these, they're coming from my sick twisted head, and have no stability in the real world...when I go off on stuff like this, just let it go and move on. It really is for the best.

Combat Chuck · 05-20-2003, 10:09 AM

*makes note to skip all of tonguegina's posts in the future*

05-20-2003, 01:52 PM

*makes note to kick Combat in the crotch*

*makes note to post on this topic later when I have more time to write*

I'll write more later, I haven't the time to even read the thread just yet, but Californication has better singles, BTW is a better album.

Titan · 05-20-2003, 01:55 PM

That would go right along with my buddhism theory.

silver and cold · 05-20-2003, 06:03 PM

i like the californication better, but yes by the way is w great cd.. i have both

Combat Chuck · 05-20-2003, 08:40 PM

*makes note to steer clear from pliedes*

the_butcher · 05-24-2003, 07:56 PM

hmm...i know this topic is a few days old...but i believe that "by the way" is also better. its kinda funny the way things work...when RHCP started, they did heroin and other hard drugs. their older music sucks...well, i take that back, before "one hot minute" the stuff sucks. but now they they are clean and stuff...(or so they say), their music is fucking amazing AND beautiful.

now on the other hand, aerosmith used to do cocaine and the other hard drugs and their old music was awesome. when i say old, i mean OLD, as in some of the first stuff they ever put out. i have only heard a little of it, but judging from "dream on", their old stuff was better. now that they are completely clean now, though, their music SUCKS ASS. case closed.

[This message has been edited by the_butcher (edited May 24, 2003).]

Combat Chuck · 06-06-2003, 12:40 AM

I may be completely wrong on this one, but didn't Pink Floyd do 'Dream On'?

As I said, I'm not completely sure, and I know that this topic is old, but I think it's high time I found out if I was wrong when referring to Pink Floyd as the artist that did 'Dream On'.

StabMaster Arson · 06-06-2003, 02:10 AM

Am I the only person here who thinks that BSSM is, by far, the best Chili Peppers album... no contest.

tonguegina · 06-06-2003, 07:25 PM

Yes, you are. I love BSSM, it brought us 'Under the Bridge' for Christ's sakes. However, taking in the album as a whole, I can not agree with you. There are many songs on there that I am a big fan of, and it is in my 'Top 5 Albums of Our Generation', even though Pliedes may disagree with me, but I can't put it above either Californication or By the Way. They both, by far, blow BSSM out of the water...no contest.

05-20-2003, 01:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
pliedes Guest Posts: n/a	makes note to kick Combat in the crotch makes note to post on this topic later when I have more time to write I'll write more later, I haven't the time to even read the thread just yet, but Californication has better singles, BTW is a better album.
pliedes Guest Posts: n/a

06-06-2003, 02:10 AM	#13 (permalink)
StabMaster Arson Roscoe P. Coldchain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Stabbin Cabin Posts: 2,759 Internets: 1425	Am I the only person here who thinks that BSSM is, by far, the best Chili Peppers album... no contest.
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05-19-2003, 11:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Firstly, let me say that for those of you who do not really give a shit about the Red Hot Chili Peppers, or their last two albums, "By The Way" and "Californication"; do not even bother reading this, 'cause it'll just be a waste of your time. Another disclaimer, this one for you Peppers' fans, and friends of mine: I think "By The Way" is an abso-fucking-lutely wonderful compilation of sweet-sweet fucking music...I just don't think it's as good as "Californication". That said, I press on. _____________________________________ I notice that quite a few members of this board (namely the one's who greatly admire the Red Hot Chili Peppers...such as myself) seem to think that the album "By The Way" is not only better than "Californication", but quite possibly the greatest album ever. (I quote this from tonguegina only to have some sort of a source for this post...tongue, don't take it personally, I just found this post by you sooner than I could find anyone else's): <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted by tonguegina: thier latest album, 'By the Way'...quite possibly the greatest album ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I sorta think this is bass-ackwards. A lot of "important" people agree with me too. This is illustrated in the fact that, Californication Won Best Album at the Grammy's whilst *By The Way was not even nominated* for Best Album at the Grammy's. But in the end, who really gives a shit about what the Academy thinks. They're probably a bunch of assholes anyway; after all, they didn't even nominate a wonderful album (By The Way) for Best Album at the Grammy's this year. So I came up with a way I think I can possibly illustrate the point I am trying to make here. I will compare each track of each album side my side with their respective track numbers, and we'll see which album is better: A Comparison: 'By The Way' and 'Californication'** By The Way: <UL TYPE=SQUARE> <LI>01-By The Way-Helluva song, but it's no 'Around the World'. <LI>02-Universally Speaking-In my opinion, one of the weaker songs on this album, which really says something, because this song is good. But nevertheless, not quite as good as 'Parallel Universe'. <LI>03-This Is The Place-It sucks for this song that it got paired up with one of my personal Peppers' favorites, 'Scar Tissue', because this really is a gem of a song, one of the upper 50% on this album. <LI>04-Dosed-God bless this song, and everything it stands for. WINNER...easily. <LI>05-Don't Forget Me-I say, WINNER, but I still insist this track is overrated. <LI>06-The Zephyr Song-When I first heard this album, this track was my favorite song. Unfortunately for it though, it's paired with the phenomenal title-track from it's rival CD. <LI>07-Can't Stop-WINNER, 'nuff said. <LI>08-I Could Die For You-Not what I'd call a "horrible song", but it's no 'Porcelain'. <LI>09-Midnight-A truly great song, and for that, I give it a prize. WINNER <LI>10-Throw Away Your Television-I'm gonna go ahead and be honest with you now. I hate this song. I really do... <LI>11-Cabron-Eh, I'm really not a fan. Ten and Eleven on this CD aren't really all that great. <LI>12-Tear-Jesse and the Rippers, baby. Great song. Easy decision here. WINNER <LI>13-On Mercury-We regret to inform you...you've lost. <LI>14-Minor Thing-"It's just a Minor Thing, and I'm a minor king". WINNER <LI>15-Warm Tape-'Road Trippin'' is way too good... <LI>16-Venice Queen-I'll tell you what. I could just throw this song out of the competition, because 'Californication' does not field a 16th song for competition. But I won't do that. WINNER...by default. (I will say though, this is a really good song, so 'Californication's' 16th track would have had to be a gem to top this one). Californication: <LI>01-Around The World-Kick-ass song, makes you want to rock-out like none-other. WINNER <LI>02-Parallel Universe-I love the intro with the guitar. God bless this song. WINNER <LI>03-Scar Tissue-Quite possibly my favorite Red Hot Chili Peppers song. WINNER <LI>04-Otherside-Although this song may be one of the top two or three tracks on this album, it got paired up with the best track from 'By The Way', thus, it loses. <LI>05-Get On Top-I'll be honest, neither of the number five songs are that great from either of these albums. Don't get me wrong, they're great songs....but when you compare them to the rest of the Peppers' songs, they both tend to lack. <LI>06-Californication-It pains me to see 'The Zephyr Song' lose...it really does. WINNER <LI>07-Easily-This is another damn good song. The guitar solo at the end is one of the Frusiante's finest. But one beautiful guitar solo fails to beat one beautiful song, 'Can't Stop'. <LI>08-Porcelain-This song is so unique when compared to the rest of the Pepper's songs. It's tracks like these which really make this album wonderful. Without some variation, CDs (and bands for that matter) blow-dick. WINNER <LI>09-Emitremmus-The name of this song is cooler than any name from either of these CDs. It's just too bad that cool names can't beat cool songs. <LI>10-I Like Dirt-As long as this song doesn't sound like 'Hanson's M-Bop', it easily beats 'Throw Away Your Television'. Well guess what, it doesn't sound like 'Hanson's M-Bop'... WINNER <LI>11-This Velvet Glove-It's not that 'This Velvet Glove' won, it's that 'Cabron' lost. WINNER <LI>12-Savior-Not a horrible song really, but it's no 'Tear'. <LI>13-Purple Stain-Wins, but I'm not too sure if it deserves to. It's one of the lower 50% songs on the album, but not quite as low as 'On Mercury' comparatively. WINNER <LI>14-Right On Time-In my mind, this is the closest battle between the CDs. While this is a really really cool song, I gotta go 'Minor Thing' here. Sorry... <LI>15-Road Trippin'-I love this song. This is easily one of my Top 5 Favorite Chili Peppers' songs, and quite possibly my favorite song on the album (it battles with 'Scar Tissue'). WINNER[/list] Let's tally up the totals...shall we? Californication-9 By The Way-7 Now, I feel I've been pretty un-biased during this review. And I feel I have pretty fairly stated why Californication is a better album than By The Way. Of course, it's all up to your own personal view. This is just how one simple person sees things... I would like to close with a little something that sort of quirks me a bit. I've heard a small handful of people say that 'By The Way' is maybe the Greatest Album of All Time. I mean seriously, can you really put "By The Way" up there with Led Zeppelin's 'IV' or Jimi Hendrix Experience's 'Are You Experienced' or Nirvana's 'Nevermind' or Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's Hearts Club Band' or Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side Of The Moon' or...well, you get the idea. What I'm saying is: Sure, "By The Way" is a phenomenal album. But (in my opinion) it's not as good as "Californication". And in the vast majority of the world's opinion, it's not the Greatest Album of All Time. So if you want to say that 'By The Way' is your favourite album of all time, go right ahead. But honestly...may God help if you truly think it's the Best Album of All-Time. -Ugly Bastard

05-19-2003, 12:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Titan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,698 Internets: 10	Thanks for taking the time to psycho-analyze the situation. I found it quite interesting. Your mode of track-matching, however, is completely bizassackwards. You can't really just go down the line and compare whatever songs correspond track-wise. That's basically the same as randomly throwing all of the songs in the air and then grabbing two and comparing them... then you could essentially grab "Warm Tape" and compare it to "Scar Tissue" in which obviously there is no comparison. Do you see what I'm saying? It's not like they planned for Track 1 to be similar to Track 1 but better on the next album. Apples and Oranges. Not to mention in doing so you've managed to pair up collossal titles like "Dosed" and "Otherside", "Zephyr Song" and "Californication", "Easily" and "Can't Stop", "I Could Die For You" and "Porcelain", "By the Way" and "Around the World"... we can't get anywhere with this, it's far too circumstantial. I think rather, you could establish a point system (this always seems to work) and just grade every song separately, then tally up the totals (not that you should do this... I'm just idealizing). Plus you've already stated your opinion quite well so there's no need. I also sense (greatly) that this whole thing was based very subjectively. That is because, even though you're attempting to grade on "greatness" and not "favouritism" it is impossible to be 100% unsubjective (or objective); subjectivity is everywhere, you can't escape it. And before pliedes brings in math and equations, it's not about the BINARIES of being subjective or not subjective, but rather it is on a scale of subjectivity/objectivity. A spectrum which probably goes infinitely in each direction and has some kind of inhumanly comprehensible 0. Being objective however is the only way that "true greatness" can be judged... but wait... I just said judged, that means that there is still obviously some apparent level of subjectivity... so... what are we to do? Obviously to think of "greatness" is to think of all the things that supposedly make music great... in order to stay away from personal likings you would have to judge by skill, relevancy, creativity, innovativity, user friendliness... yet all of these things are still bound by subjectivity. We can come to an almost agreement for many things... like, "Dosed" is an amazing beautiful song and was done very tastefully and creatively, it is very unique, and therefore it deserves to be called "good" and not just "I like it"... EVEN STILL this must be based on opinion, even if you take out the fact that this song blatantly gives you a right-1-2 emotionally. It is impossible to come to a realistic conclusion of how these albums stack up as "The Greatest Albums of All Time" unless you take into account a popular census (as gay as that would be) and I doubt we're going to poll the world about this so all we have left to do is to say that Ugly Bastard's opinion is that "Californication" is the more appropriate candidate for "Greatest Album" than "By the Way". My opinion differs and I believe that "By the Way" is "better". I think it just barely has more relevant and well-done tracks than "Californication" coughcoughsubjectivitycough. The valid and coherent variety that was established in this album plus the professionalism and innovativity in which it was audially put forth is enough for me to judge it as a very great album. I do not feel that "By the Way" is the greatest album of all time, but it's definitely in the top... 25 I'd say... (I'll give a little room for albums I haven't heard but may be better). Personally "One Hot Minute" is my favourite RHCP album, because it is "right up my alley", "my bag", "my cup of tea". In conclusion, we can argue about what is realistically "best" all day long but it's still just going to be opinion, which is fine of course. I respect your opinion Ugly Bastard, but my opinion is not the same. "By the Way" compared to "Californication" to me is kind of like a Buddhist life compared to a normal other life. The Buddhist life, in an attempt to acheive tranquility, is much more borderline, not so many extreme highs and extreme lows. This compares to "By the Way" except there are many extreme highs. "Californication" has more lows (for me) and they pull down the overall greatness of the album just a hint more than "By the Way". Seriously, these albums are a close battle, they are both two of the most amazing albums.

05-19-2003, 01:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Titan- Nice post, I respect your opinion. My goal when making this thread was not to force someone to like Californication more than By The Way. It was more to defend Californication a little bit. All I ever hear about, is what a good album By The Way is, I sort of felt Californication had been pushed to the side a little bit; so to combat this, I (being one who likes Californication more than By The Way) tried to illustrate why I have such feelings. As far as the point system goes compareded to the track-track system: you got me on that one. I was actually going to do both, and rate each song, and add them up. But when I composed the beast, I forgot to do that, which sorta pisses me off. But I can see what you're saying. Just because Californication has 9 winners over By The Way's 7, it could be skewed if every one of By The Way's loses were by a slim margin, whereas their wins were by landslides. In conclusion, I think we've seen a nice point-counterpoint in the above two threads. I stand by my subjective opinion, and am to assume that most people who read this thread, will continue to stand by theirs. I just hope that we all can open our eyes enough to realize that "By The Way" probably isn't the Greatest Album of All-Time. -Ugly Bastard

05-20-2003, 12:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
Combat Chuck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,063 Internets: 10	Great posts all around. I have to say, I love Californication. Love it to pieces. But By The Way, in my subjective opinion is, not by far, the better of the two. I really can't say anything else. Titan has already covered all the bases for the subjective opinion and the kinda skewed basis for the ratings, but it's all in opinion. One thing that I must say is, I think that the Academy honored Californication because of the return of Frusciante and the attention that that garnered. It marked the return of the originals, and it was such a damn good album, that it marked the return of what people had been yearning for. I mean, what was the gap in between Blood, Sugar, Sex, and Magik and Californication? That's my reasoning behind that move by the Academy.

05-20-2003, 12:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
tonguegina I like dirt. Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,861 Internets: 2790	Basicly, for me, the Red Hot Chili Peppers are the end all, be all of professional musicians. I can easily say that they are my favorite band of all time. I don't care who else you throw out there, the Beatles, Led Zepplin, or even Pink Floyd. Sure these are all phenominal bands and most likely noone agrees with me, it's just my personal taste. And along with that come my two favorite albums, 'Californication' and 'By the Way'. Personally, 'By the Way' beats 'Californication' by a slim margin. When I say it's the "greatest album of all-time" that's because I personally believe that. I know that most likely no one else does, but that's how my mind works. I can't bring objectivity to these things...that's why I haven't made that review of Third Eye Blind's first album yet, I know it'd be completely subjective (I think I got those strait). Anywho, when I make claims such as these, they're coming from my sick twisted head, and have no stability in the real world...when I go off on stuff like this, just let it go and move on. It really is for the best.

05-20-2003, 10:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
Combat Chuck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,063 Internets: 10	makes note to skip all of tonguegina's posts in the future

05-20-2003, 01:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
Titan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,698 Internets: 10	That would go right along with my buddhism theory.

05-20-2003, 06:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
silver and cold Ish... Join Date: May 2003 Location: this nowhere Posts: 1,680 Internets: 10	i like the californication better, but yes by the way is w great cd.. i have both

05-20-2003, 08:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Combat Chuck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,063 Internets: 10	makes note to steer clear from pliedes

05-24-2003, 07:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
the_butcher Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: ::: the recesses of my mind ::: Posts: 1,023 Internets: 10	hmm...i know this topic is a few days old...but i believe that "by the way" is also better. its kinda funny the way things work...when RHCP started, they did heroin and other hard drugs. their older music sucks...well, i take that back, before "one hot minute" the stuff sucks. but now they they are clean and stuff...(or so they say), their music is fucking amazing AND beautiful. now on the other hand, aerosmith used to do cocaine and the other hard drugs and their old music was awesome. when i say old, i mean OLD, as in some of the first stuff they ever put out. i have only heard a little of it, but judging from "dream on", their old stuff was better. now that they are completely clean now, though, their music SUCKS ASS. case closed. [This message has been edited by the_butcher (edited May 24, 2003).]

06-06-2003, 12:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
Combat Chuck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,063 Internets: 10	I may be completely wrong on this one, but didn't Pink Floyd do 'Dream On'? As I said, I'm not completely sure, and I know that this topic is old, but I think it's high time I found out if I was wrong when referring to Pink Floyd as the artist that did 'Dream On'.

06-06-2003, 07:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
tonguegina I like dirt. Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,861 Internets: 2790	Yes, you are. I love BSSM, it brought us 'Under the Bridge' for Christ's sakes. However, taking in the album as a whole, I can not agree with you. There are many songs on there that I am a big fan of, and it is in my 'Top 5 Albums of Our Generation', even though Pliedes may disagree with me, but I can't put it above either Californication or By the Way. They both, by far, blow BSSM out of the water...no contest.