Medical Insurance

[Ironic Mustache]

I put this here instead of "Rants" because I'm assuming this will spiral into another gigantic argument. I'm seriously hoping that we can talk about this as adults (backed by sources), as opposed to spewing hateful, regurgitated, news rhetoric.

The healthcare system is fucked, in so many ways. I have some of the best coverage money can buy and am still complaining. Several months ago I left around 4 separate messages for different doctors (most on their private cell phones, so it wasn't a secretary issue), and didn't receive a call back from ANY OF THEM. I eventually gave up after trying two more and getting a "not taking new patients" message. A little over a week ago, I sprained my ankle, though, at the time was worried that it could have been broken. I called my insurance and was informed that I could go to ANY urgent care facility. I went to the closest one to my house and was turned away. Later, after an argument with a manager at said facility, I realized that they were basically passing me along to a less busy location because my injury wasn't that severe. Said "less busy" location was less busy because it was closed.

The reason I was attempting to go to the urgent care facility in the first place (as opposed to my regular doctor) is that I have a new doctor as a result of my new insurance, who I have yet to see. Next new patient visit availability: October. Doctor refused to see me until a "new patient visit" had occurred. I found this out after learning of an opening to be seen later that day. When they found out I hadn't seen him yet (even though his name is on my fucking insurance card), I got booted. I'm still not sure why a cursory initial inspection couldn't have coincided with a couple of x-rays, but whatevs, I digress.

I have a chiropractor that adjusted my ankle and says it has been reset, but that remains to be seen.

What can we do differently?

[angry pancake]

Seems more of a provider issue than insurance issue to AP. But I get why you're pissed off.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

stop looking like a mexican illegal immigrant next time.

[Mr. Blonde]

I hate my job more than anything I've hated in my life. I would have quit and be serving at restaurants right now if it weren't for the insurance situation in America.

Next week, amidst job searching, I'm going to start pricing out private insurance. I have no idea what it will come to given my various pre-existing conditions, but it can't hurt to research.

No matter what you think of Obamacare, it's the only god-damned thing being done about our completely fucked system.

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

No matter what you think of Obamacare, it's the only god-damned thing being done about our completely fucked system.

Doing "something" doesn't necessarily mean it's an improvement. There are aspects I lboth ike and hate about it, but no one really knows how it's going to change the big picture. Except maybe DH.

[Mr. Blonde]

I really find it hard to believe how, as a first world nation, it could be really worse than it is now. Most of the people talking shit about how "health care quality will go down" haven't spent a lick of fucking time in other countries, and don't know many people from first world nations with socialized healthcare. Not a single one of my Canadian, English, or Australian friends have near the amount of complaints many injured or sick Americans have. DH is a prime example of sheltered, American ignorance in this regard -- cue "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" quote.

Best response I have ever seen to those who claim good health and not needing mandatory insurance, or to those who think that we should have little to no sympathy to our fellow humans:

"Conditions develop pretty fast."

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

I really find it hard to believe how, as a first world nation, it could be really worse than it is now. Most of the people talking shit about how "health care quality will go down" haven't spent a lick of fucking time in other countries, and don't know many people from first world nations with socialized healthcare. Not a single one of my Canadian, English, or Australian friends have near the amount of complaints many injured or sick Americans have. DH is a prime example of sheltered, American ignorance in this regard -- cue "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" quote.

Best response I have ever seen to those who claim good health and not needing mandatory insurance, or to those who think that we should have little to no sympathy to our fellow humans:

"Conditions develop pretty fast."

You couldn't be more wrong. England is 10X worse. It's so fucked I don't even want to talk about it. Kremlin went to the doctor something like 8 FUCKING TIMES before somebody would finally read his MRI and confirm that yes, he tore his pectoral. I pay for American health insurance just because the English system is so bad that if I ever actually need care I'm hopping on the first plane to USA to get treatment.

[Saint DH]

To me it sounds like IM's rant is in regards to a shortage of healthcare providers, which there absolutely is. It's only going to get worse as our aging population gets even older.

Now let's cue Obamacare, where people who previously chose not to purchase health insurance (and consume healthcare services) are forced to pay for coverage and begin consuming healthcare services. Now everyone in the country has healthcare, so everyone in America is consuming healthcare. Doctors are getting paid less because government contractual adjustments are always much higher than private insurance companies, and the aforementioned problem described by IM gets much worse.

In the end, with Obamacare you have a policy that only addresses the demand side of healthcare services but does nothing to adjust the supply of healthcare providers.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Whether or not people agree with Obamacare, I think it's important because it directed the national conversation to something that nobody wanted to deal with. The Affordable Care Act will undoubtedly get tweaked and modified as new presidents come in and we learn what works and what doesn't. I look at the current version as a kind of rudimentary foundation.

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Now let's cue Obamacare, where people who previously chose not to purchase health insurance (and consume healthcare services) are forced to pay for coverage and begin consuming healthcare services.

See, I thought Obama's legal team made a very compelling case for requiring people to purchase health care because it's a market you will enter, regardless of desire to. It's not right for people who don't have insurance to free ride the system when they get hurt or sick, because then people who did purchase insurance have their premiums go up.

There is definitely a shortage of providers though, and it's going to get bad when everyone has insurance. But it should create a lot of demand for really good paying jobs, like physical therapists, nurses, physician assistants, etc.

[Ironic Mustache]

Demand for those positions doesn't necessarily mean the positions exist though. A lot of hospitals need more nurses but can't afford to pay them.

[Repugnant Abomination]

I know your special lady friend is a nurse (right?), so you probably know more about that than me, but my special lady friend looked into it a while back and said there are tons of nursing jobs advertised, but they all want prior experience (pretty typical of most jobs, really). If the problem is not being able to afford more nurses, then maybe hospitals should bust the nurses union and pay them a little less? I don't know, honestly, so I'm just throwing ideas out there. The argument would then seem to be, if you pay them less the job becomes less attractive, attracts lower quality nurses, etc...Then I was going to say, health care professionals across the board should take a little less money, but then you get into the problem of how much school costs for these people, and that they should be making really good money. So then I was going to say, maybe school should be more affordable? Which made me realize that all of this shit is interconnected. It doesn't seem to me that you can tackle something like healthcare without also dealing with tuition costs, insurance companies, unions, etc...

Basically, fuck.

[Ironic Mustache]

You're correct in that there are a ton of positions available, and yes they almost all want experience, but it still isn't enough. Last night my chick (works in the ER) was in a particularly nasty section reserved for people who require their vitals checked every 15-30 minutes. Because these patients need so much attention, the nurses are only supposed to have two of them at a time. She had 4 pretty much the whole night.

It's crazy to me that there's such a need for more providers yet it's hard as shit to even get into nursing school here (way over-saturated), and then it's hard as shit to get a first job. The majority of the jobs go to people who have experience so while they're filling a position, they're also more than likely leaving one vacant.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

It's crazy to me that there's such a need for more providers yet it's hard as shit to even get into nursing school here (way over-saturated), and then it's hard as shit to get a first job.

That's a really good point. I wonder why that is?

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

Whether or not people agree with Obamacare, I think it's important because it directed the national conversation to something that nobody wanted to deal with. The Affordable Care Act will undoubtedly get tweaked and modified as new presidents come in and we learn what works and what doesn't. I look at the current version as a kind of rudimentary foundation.

It's disappointing to me that the pro-Obama spin on his biggest piece of legislation starts with "whether or not you agree with it..." Such a weak administration.

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

See, I thought Obama's legal team made a very compelling case for requiring people to purchase health care because it's a market you will enter, regardless of desire to.

I don't think that's an entirely fair assumption. There are people who have chosen a lifestyle that involves avoiding entering the health care system for example. And it's also unfair to equate not having health insurance with being poised to freeload off the system. What if you are wealthy and just don't want to take the -EV gamble that all insurance purchases are and pay out of pocket if anything goes wrong?

Our health care system is rather obviously completely fucked up. I don't understand it or Obamacare enough to really know how things could be improved. I like some of Steve Forbes' ideas on health care but I'm not even sure that he understands how the system could be fixed.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

It's disappointing to me that the pro-Obama spin on his biggest piece of legislation starts with "whether or not you agree with it..." Such a weak administration.

I don't know, I think that's partly a knee jerk reaction to the stereotype that Democrats are weak (which they usually are). You could say the exact same thing about the Bush administration's Patriot Act.

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

There are people who have chosen a lifestyle that involves avoiding entering the health care system for example. And it's also unfair to equate not having health insurance with being poised to freeload off the system. What if you are wealthy and just don't want to take the -EV gamble that all insurance purchases are and pay out of pocket if anything goes wrong?

How can you choose a lifestyle that involved avoiding entering the health care system? You don't choose to get into a car accident or tear your meniscus or get prostate cancer. I'm interested to hear more of your perspective though; while I like the Affordable Care Act in theory, who knows how it will work out in practice.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

There are people who have chosen a lifestyle that involves avoiding entering the health care system for example. And it's also unfair to equate not having health insurance with being poised to freeload off the system. What if you are wealthy and just don't want to take the -EV gamble that all insurance purchases are and pay out of pocket if anything goes wrong?

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

"Conditions develop pretty fast."

The dumbest of all gambles IMO.

[f3lix]

Repug - please stick to arguing medical and do not bring in the Patriot Act, especially since it's doubtful more than 10% of non-government working citizens want it.