I'm now an 8th grade soccer coach.

[Beebs]

Thinking of moving from this
(Although my "Perez" plays a bit deeper, beside my "Gargano")
to this
since our home field is extremely narrow anyway.

Reasons being that the current system (first one) puts a lot of pressure on the attacking midfielder / playmaker (Gonzales in the diagram), and it's not a position many American kids understand; in the second system he would be a little further back than on the diagram and being sharing the playmaking duties with 2 other central midfielders. Also, my main goal scoring threat tends to drift out wide to find the ball anyway, so in a front 3 he can either start centrally and switch with either of the wide forwards, or start wide and make diagonal runs towards goal. Finally, having 4 central midfielders will overrun just about every team we play, allowing us more possession.

Problems with changing would be covering the wide areas in defense, and getting the forwards to understand how a front 3 works properly.

I'm not necessarily committed to a 3 man defense, but I expect most teams to be playing a 4-4-2 with 2 pretty orthodox strikers, which a 3 man defense counters very well.

So the second system takes 2 concepts I don't necessarily love, in the 3 man defense and diamond midfield, and brings the best concepts out of them. If an opposing team goes with 3 forwards, the defensive midfielder drops in to central defense and we play a 4-3-3.

[Ugly Bastard]

Love the analysis. How did you get this job?

[Beebs]

Played under the high school coach when I was a kid and in high school, started playing again recently with the assistant, they know I've become a bit of a tactical obsessive, and they needed an 8th grade coach.

I get a fair amount of comments on how different of a coach I am compared to when I was a player. I always played incredibly angry and physical to the point of being dirty, but the biggest problem I have as a coach is being too relaxed and quiet.

The internet and Fifa on PS3 have really changed the way I think about the game.

[Beebs]

The kids lost 1-3 away to Concord, but I was more than pleased with their performance.

It was in the 90s and we only had 12 kids, including 4 7th graders, and my dumb ass didn't bring enough water for them, so they just couldn't do it physically.

I had to get up and walk away from the bench at
one point so as to not get thrown out for berating a ref who was just comically inept. The field was also a football (American) field and had the goal posts on top of the goal; we hit the top bar (which is out of play) then scored, and I had to inform her that "yes, their coach is right, that shouldn't actually count." We had the ball in the net 5 times, 3 offsides and the goal post incident.

But I was proud of the little shits, they scored the goal right towards the end, and the play was generally going our way by then.

I did switch to the 3-4-3 diamond formation in the second half, and it went more or less as I hoped; we do pretty much concede the wide areas, but our keeper is big kid who collects crosses well, and we are generally good at winning balls in the air, so I can live with that.

Clogging the middle really makes it easier for us to retain possession as well as win it back when we do lose it. Also, one of the sad realities is that it allows me to hide a bad player easier in a group of four.

The front 3 worked well; I can either play a more traditional style where the wide players stay wide and I put a strong, tall center forward to win crosses in the middle. What I prefer to do is play the wide forwards on their "wrong" side (left footed on the right side, vice versa) this worked pretty well and was how we got our goal.

I've told the kid who usually plays as my main striker when I was playing with a front 2 to just play his natural game when we have the ball, because he likes to drift outside to get the ball and then run at defenders. So I give the 3 forwards a pretty free role with the ball, swapping positions at will, but to make sure if we lose the ball that whoever happens to be in the 2 wide positions spread wide to force the ball into our midfielders.

The goal came by our right forward cutting in and swapping with the center forward, and passing the ball into the right corner, he crosses it, it goes over the keepers head, and either goes directly in or the left winger who moved inside headed it in, I couldn't tell if it was over the line when he headed it or not, but either way it worked well.

[Ugly Bastard]

What do the kids call you? How is their demeanor in practices and games generally? Is it like lol this is fun or we need to beat the shit out of this team?

[Beebs]

They call me Coach, which is fine with me.

Their demeanor really depends on how I'm acting, which is sometimes a problem because it is my first time coaching so I'm not always as organized as I want to be, so then they start to screw around. Plus sometimes I can't help but laugh at something I probably shouldn't be encouraging.

In practice they tend to be more "lol this is fun" or "this sucks, I'm tired/hurt/bored". In games one group tends to be pretty even-keeled, while the other group tends to be very amped up, which can swing both ways, because if things aren't going well they can start to get angry or disinterested and I will start to lose them.

In general they will pay attention if they start to see me getting frustrated, because I never yell at them negatively, when I yell it's usually just so they can hear me because I am a pretty quiet talker.

They handle hard practices and running very well, because I make sure to frame it as conditioning and just something we need to do, rather than as a punishment.

I have 2 captains and they help out quite a bit; one was the obvious choice that everybody voted for, although I made sure to point out that this isn't a straight democracy and I'm just asking their opinion for my final decision, he is your typical good kid, has likely been their captain for all their teams.

My other one is more of the type to go off the rails if things start to go bad. I picked him hoping it would keep him and the rest of the non-honor student types on board, and it seems to be working, he's part Mexican and lives outside of the district, so I think that despite being able to get a lot of kids to listen to him, he has likely never been in an official leadership position.

Off the field they are typical 13 year old boys: far too much energy, brains that have no idea how to handle their new testosterone levels, and loud, so very, very loud. They can be fucking hilarious at times, at others I just want to sell them into slavery.


I think I'm finally starting to get the balance right between being too lax and being one of those sad pathetic middle age coaches who just yell and scream, despite having no real idea of how the game actually works at a personal or tactical level.

Basically I can trust them to do what I say because after two games and a month or so of practice they can trust me not to be unreasonable with them at a personal level and they will "carry out orders" in terms of how I tell them to play tactically because what I've told them to do I explain why I am doing it, and it has worked so far.

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by Beebs

My other one is more of the type to go off the rails if things start to go bad. I picked him hoping it would keep him and the rest of the non-honor student types on board, and it seems to be working, he's part Mexican and lives outside of the district, so I think that despite being able to get a lot of kids to listen to him, he has likely never been in an official leadership position.

Money.

The whole thing is money. I love it. Stick with it and work your way up into higher positions with more developed players.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

This sounds suspiciously like the Mighty Ducks.

[Beebs]

Well Mighty Ducks is somewhat based on extremely exaggerated archetypes of the type of kids you get on a team.

[Beebs]

Well lost 4-1 today, after getting the first goal and holding the lead to just before half time.

Little bastards played very well for the most part; played goshen, which uses an A and B team instead of 8th and 7th, plus they use 6th graders as well.

One kid got his head knocked pretty good, put him through all the concussion tests I am by now completely used to, and he passed, but still clearly felt like shit, so I kept him out, which sucked because he is a great asset to have as a midfield enforcer: not afraid to run a kid over or just annoy them all game, although these qualities are what let to him getting hurt. He went to clear a corner away, and he really went after it, to the point where he clashed heads with another kid and got the worst of it.

Formation worked well, they played 2 strikers, which suits my back 3, and had a back 3, which suits my 3 forwards.

Downpoints were that their goal came when one of my subs called off 2 people, so we were a man down. Also, my captain arbitrarily decided that he would switch from central defense, where I was briefly using him until I could get the right set of players on, back to center forward, all without telling me.

I had a quiet word with him about doing that during halftime.

My keeper, who is my other captain, played a great game, I was working with him on being more decisive on if he should be going out to get a ball or telling a defender too, and if he decides to get it to go through whatever happens to be in the way. Stopped a lot of shots as well.

[Beebs]

Mother fucker, I just wrote a huge write up on the two outside midfielders in the diamond, and how the front 3 is developing. I'm using this as much as a journal to look back on, so that kind of sucks, but I will remember what I wrote.

Basically the tl:dr is I've found a 7th grader who plays the Sanchez role incredibly well and I want to make sure he isn't just moved to a wide midfielder in a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2, which he likely will be since he is left footed. My captain does a good job in the Messi role, but gets frustrated when he isn't getting the ball, so I may move him to the Fabregas role and give him a little more freedom than the people I currently use there. My usual Sanchez missed the game to play for a club team, which sucks, but it's a higher level team and better for him overall.

Goddamn, I really wish I wouldn't have fucked up that post.

Oh, I also explained the "false 9" position that Messi plays; false 9 refers to a player who lines up as a center forward, to whom the #9 jersey is traditionally given to, but drops deep and leaves the central defenders not knowing if they should step up out of defense to pick him up, leaving space behind them and playing where they are not fully comfortable, or stay at home and risk him running rampant with nobody to pick him up. My captain has been doing a good job of this, and my Pedro and Sanchez have been doing a hell of a job making the diagonal runs towards goal that it opens up, but my captain can drift out of a game if he isn't getting the ball enough.

[Beebs]

Also, while I mention the 4-4-2 somewhat derogatorily, I am referring more to the sort of play that you see in lower levels in England as an example. Taking all players, shoving them into 1 role, and playing them in 3 straight lines.

At it's best, however, the 4-4-2 can be an incredibly effective and entertaining system; Arrigo Sachi revolutionized the modern game at AC Milan in the late 80s and early 90s with a beautiful, flowing 4-4-2 with possibly the best back 4 the world has ever known, midfielders who were incredibly creative but worked hard to press and get the ball back, and 2 forwards who were possibly the best of their generation. Arsene Wenger's earlier Aresenal sides were also a 4-4-2 that played a unique style that produced some of the best stuff in decades.

Also, even in it's conventional form it can be great, the best examples I can think of are a number of Man United sides, with a tradition of great wingers and box to box midfielders. Although, to his endless credit, he was an early adapter of a fluid system with Christiano Ronaldo moving from an orthodox winger to a goal scoring machine playing wherever he could find space.

And, for DJFC, Tottenham of 2 years ago played a nearly textbook orthodox 4-4-2, and found great success with it, all while being highly entertaining. They still play pretty similar, but have put a more creative #10 type attacking midfielder as a second striker, rather than 2 out and out strikers, something that was needed to survive against Europes Elite, and since the #10 was such a good deal, would have been silly to pass up.

[Beebs]

Destroyed Stanley Clark 5-0; the forwards finally understand how to interchange and switch positions.

Their coach was a prick and their players were whiny, so I had mine play physical and get in their faces all game.

[Saint DH]

You should have your players wear baseball cleats. Man did I hate it when mother fuckers had that toe cleat on their shoes.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Beebs

And, for DJFC, Tottenham of 2 years ago played a nearly textbook orthodox 4-4-2, and found great success with it, all while being highly entertaining. They still play pretty similar, but have put a more creative #10 type attacking midfielder as a second striker, rather than 2 out and out strikers, something that was needed to survive against Europes Elite, and since the #10 was such a good deal, would have been silly to pass up.

Wait so you're saying we can't compete against Europe using Defoe and VdV?

Van Der Vaart is God.

Or are you saying Van Der Vaart was needed?

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

Wait so you're saying we can't compete against Europe using Defoe and VdV?

Van Der Vaart is God.

Or are you saying Van Der Vaart was needed?

Reading that again I guess it could be taken either way.

What I was trying to say was that VdV was needed, both to drop into midfield at times to keep the 2 central midfielders from being overrun (especially if one is the more attack minded Modric), and to be able to find the right pass to unlock some of the more stubborn defenses. In the Europa League this year, they might be able to play a 4-4-2 with 2 out and out strikers rather than a 4-4-1-1 with VdV behind the striker, and be more successful than in the tougher Champions League.

I don't think Spurs could compete with Defoe and VdV, Defoe isn't great as a lone striker, but works well in a duo; his speed works well with a big man, but he isn't a particularly great passer or dribbler. I think Adebayor or Pavlyuchenko, rather than Defoe, is much better suited to playing in front of VdV. Defoe essentially needs a strike partner to be worth playing, in my opinion.

My more general point was that while I often criticize the 4-4-2 and the one dimensional style of play it can produce, Tottenham are one example of it being used to great effect, and use it in a more traditional way than a lot of the other teams that use it at a high level.

Spurs play with traditional wingers in the wide midfield spots, playing a right footed one on the right and left footed on the left, whereas a lot of 4-4-2 teams have been playing inverted wingers with a left footed player on the right and vice versa. Both wingers for Spurs are incredibly fast, like to beat their defender by going outside of them, getting to the by-line and crossing, while occasionally cutting in to go at goal. Also the central midfielders fit the stereotype of a traditional 4-4-2, but do so very well; Modric is more attacking, sprays passes out to the wingers, and gets forward into the box, Sandro/Huddlestone are more defensive, providing cover for the back 4. So while the 4-4-2 has it's problems, in the case of Spurs the risk is that the central midfielders will be overrun by a team with 3 players in that area, for other teams it becomes a purely defensive formation, the 4-4-2 can be very exciting and is not dead as a modern tactical system.

I do think against tougher teams Spurs will need to Play Sandro and another holding midfielder in the center, and then choose one of Modric or VcV to play in front of them, or have VdV replace one of the wingers (probably Lennon).

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

You should have your players wear baseball cleats. Man did I hate it when mother fuckers had that toe cleat on their shoes.

They aren't allowed. The new cleats are pretty hard plastic blades though, and can do some damage.

[Cocktooth]

Plus, no toe cleat. We had to line up on the line and show our cleats before games.

[Beebs]

Introducing a 4-3-3 system in case the opposition plays a 3 or 1 forward system. Using Barcelona again, the basic system is as such (my team in red):


The reasoning being that the idea of playing a back 3 is that it counters a 2 striker system very well. 3 defenders means that each striker is picked up by a marker, with an extra man to spare. As shown here:


However, when a team only has 1 central striker and 2 wide forwards, the 3 defenders either result in not having an extra defender, which means that the defense is very vulnerable to a midfielder moving forward, or just getting beat by one of the forwards. Alternately, the defense can end up with 2 free men, and have midfielders pick up the forwards, but this results in forcing your midfield too far back, and having 2 extra players, leaving the rest of the team short of players.




The key to the 4 man defense is that unlike in the 3 man defense, the two outside defenders (fullbacks) get forward and provide width while in possession, while the 2 central defenders (center backs) stay fairly defensive. In a back 3 all of the defenders are considered center backs, although occasionally one can step into midfield, but this doesn't provide the width that a fullback getting forward does.

Ideally, with enough understanding between the players, you can shift between a 4-3-3 and a 3-4-3 without having to change players, by having the deepest midfielder drop between the two center backs as the fullbacks get forward.

[Cocktooth]

God damnit, I hate soccer, but can't get enough of this thread. Beebs, you put together some good shit. The fighter thread was tits too!

[Beebs]

8-1 tonight against Elkhart Christian; kept the back 3 because they played 2 strikers, and our home field is really narrow.

Everybody did well, kind of hard to tell in that lopsided of a game though.

Proud to be 3-0 against private schools, and 2-0 against christian schools.

[Beebs]

Oh, and my right footed striker who usually starts from the left scored 4 goals, could have been more as well; he was shooting with his left foot due to a slight injury.

Also last game I kept telling my forwards to switch positions, until they finally started doing it on their own every few possessions.

[Beebs]

Probably my proudest moment as a coach so far. Beat Argos 3-2 with a goal with about 10 min to ago. Score went 1-0, 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, 3-2. The kids we brought up from 7th grade weren't starters for their grade, since they had a tough game tonight, but they filled in and did a decent job.

My captain scored 2 goals, including the last one, and didn't complain when I moved him to defense at times. My left footed forward was playing defense at one point as well and hit a shot from just inside the half and hit the crossbar. My hardest kid to control has been excellent ever since I text him that the rest of the team tends to go as he go's, and he will just randomly text me things like "butt licker", which is funny imo. He is a beast on the field, always has the other coach complaining, not dirty, but right on the edge of a foul, which is fine.

This brings me to my next point, where I almost murdered the other coach, who was one of those 40 year old pathetic fuckers who spends the whole game yelling. A kid ran into my keeper on a ball in the air, the keeper caught it, and as every keeper is taught, lifted a knee when he jumped. The kid ran into the knee, and was hurt and had to be carried off the field. Now look, I'm sorry your kid is hurt, but don't run into my fucking keeper, simple as that, he will hurt the next guy to, and every one after that. As a keeper myself I understand how vulnerable you are when you are jumping straight up with your arms in the air, and have 10 or so kids running at you trying to kick or head, right about face level. The faggot ass coach had the nerve to ask the ref "what, no call?" I lost my shit, but did manage to only say "He ran into my keeper, what do you think is gonna happen? He will do that every time" to him.

My Keeper is a nice kid, fairly big, but in no way does he take joy in hurting people (I did, but I was small and needed to intimidate), he was just doing what he was allowed, and what he has been taught since a young age.

I am definitely starting to get attached to these kids.

[thekremlin]

All I got from that was that Beebs and a child are texting each other, and licking of butts is mentioned.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by thekremlin

All I got from that was that Beebs and a child are texting each other, and licking of butts is mentioned.

I haven't read anything in this thread other than the first post and this one ... so now I'll assume that Beebs is texting children and talking to them about licking butts.