Vote Obama: Bite the Hand That Feeds You

[ninjaface]

I'm not sure if Repug was kidding with his last post.. but I most certainly was. I thought it was obvious with the whole death-ray thing. Are you ok? Perhaps you're dehydrated?

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

I believe he was replying to Blondes post above yours, not your that was posted a couple minutes b4 his. That said, I'm disappointed you were joking I thought it kind of made sense.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Clarification ftw!

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

I believe he was replying to Blondes post above yours.

wat

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

You're right. I'm convinced. Let's lower taxes on the super rich, cut education for those filthy non-rich people, lower the minimum wage (because they're lazy and stupid and don't deserve a lot of money) and never end the war. While we're at it, we can teach intelligent design in science classes, try to over turn Roe v Wade, give more money to the military industrial complex, and make sure no two men or two women who love each other EVER have the same rights that the rest of us do.

Four more years! Four more years!

because mccain is for all of those things? FYI barrack obama and joe biden's official stance on fag marriage is that they are against it, and they both are those people you hate so much called christians.

[Mr. Blonde]

right now, they have to be against it. if you watched the debates, both candidates and at least biden are for equal rights, just not gay marriage. But there are more voters against gay marriage than for it. we'll see what happens after Obama wins on that note.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

because mccain is for all of those things? FYI barrack obama and joe biden's official stance on fag marriage is that they are against it, and they both are those people you hate so much called christians.

Sadly, I think it's impossible right now in American politics for an atheist to get elected. Women, blacks, hell, even gays have a better chance. But if a candidate were to come out and say they're atheist? Forget about it.

If you listen to Obama, especially a lot of his earlier stuff, before the campaign began and every candidate had to get as close to the center as possible, he was very pragmatic and secular. I guess you could say he has a much more progressive stance, than say Palin, who's much more of a fundamentalist.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

Sadly, I think it's impossible right now in American politics for an atheist to get elected. Women, blacks, hell, even gays have a better chance. But if a candidate were to come out and say they're atheist? Forget about it.

If you listen to Obama, especially a lot of his earlier stuff, before the campaign began and every candidate had to get as close to the center as possible, he was very pragmatic and secular. I guess you could say he has a much more progressive stance, than say Palin, who's much more of a fundamentalist.

Are you basically reiterating my point?

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Are you claiming Obama is a secret atheist? Are you talking about the way he sounded earlier in his campaign when he was a member of Rev. Wrights church?

You want to talk about someone who sounds secular you probably need to listen to Mccain.

If Obama could be a secret Athiest whos to say he couldn't be a secret Muslim? If a man was capable of pretending he was a christian for the last 20 years to promote his political agenda would it be that much of a stretch to postulate hes been hiding his jihaadist plans to take infilitrate the american government? After all his father was raised muslim.

I'm on the case!

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

Are you claiming Obama is a secret atheist? Are you talking about the way he sounded earlier in his campaign when he was a member of Rev. Wrights church?

You want to talk about someone who sounds secular you probably need to listen to Mccain.

If Obama could be a secret Athiest whos to say he couldn't be a secret Muslim? If a man was capable of pretending he was a christian for the last 20 years to promote his political agenda would it be that much of a stretch to postulate hes been hiding his jihaadist plans to take infilitrate the american government? After all his father was raised muslim.

I'm on the case!

No, d-bag. I'm saying that within the religious community, thankfully, there are more moderate people. I still don't agree with them, for what I consider obvious reasons, but they're definitely the lesser of two evils. And I could care less if he's a Muslim.

I hate you so, so much. <3

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Ha! Got you!

Are you voting for Mccain now? Since he won't get in the way of your faggy civil rights because he only panders to the voting base just as Obama does AND has better tax policy?

[Ugly Bastard]

I was about to go to bed feeling kind of discouraged at all the beta-male bitching and moaning going around lately (much of coming from white, American males, no less... wtf is the world coming to?)

However... Dick Masterson saved my spirit thanks to this fabulous article.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

I was about to go to bed feeling kind of discouraged at all the beta-male bitching and moaning going around lately (much of coming from white, American males, no less... wtf is the world coming to?)

Because i'm not wealthy at 24 and don't want a certain person in office i'm a beta male? Really? Says the guy who is essentially talking shit saying he's the alpha...over the internet. Very tough and Alpha of you. Thing about Alpha/Beta males is that you actually have to "submit" them...and you're doing a pretty bad job at that.

[DJ FC]

Wow you guys took an OK thread and trashed it! I thought we were talking about the economy and corporate tax rates? Why get personal taxes, education, and abortion involved? Everyone agrees UB is wrong about education, so that shouldn't be an issue. The single biggest issue facing America: Her ability to provide a home of safety, wealth, and success for the American citizens. And this becomes impossible once all the jobs leave. The jobs leave because the corporations would rather (and rightly so) pay lower taxes. They pay lower taxes by incorporating in Dubai or Ireland. Once again: You need a pie before you can split it. Think about this. It really makes me sad to think that the America that gave our parents so much won't be around for our children because one greedy generation ruined it for a quick fix. Please keep the business environment friendly, Obama, please don't follow through with the things you indicate you want to do.

[SittinOnDubsWGW]

Raising minimum wage HURTS the middle/lower class people far more than helping.

[Cocktooth]

Wow, I sleep for one day, and this thread explodes! Nubblies is back. Love it!

Plus, I think I learned more about things on here then I have in my 8 months of cable news TV even with the agenda's. I thank you gentleman!

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

I think that's a sad characterization of wealthy people. Look at Warren Buffet who amassed a fortune of $40 billion while continuing to live in the same house he bought in Nebraska in the 1960s. He donated $30 billion to charity last year.

Keep in mind also, people only get rich by giving others what they want. You think Buffet got all the money by exploiting people? No! He got it by creating efficiencies in society that caused these "ignorant masses" of yours to willfully give him their money in exchange for things like affordable furniture and automobile insurance.

You don't think it's a little bit of a coincidence that so many people (on a site of your former peers no less) suddenly think you act like a cocksucker a lot of the time? Suddenly, as in shortly after you started making money?

Truth be told UB, the tax issue is a important to me as well and I agree that it's a slippery slope to start discouraging wealth and capitalism. That doesn't mean you should start disparaging pretty much every other aspect of life that doesn't relate to it. I went from broke, to making over a hundred thousand a year, to middle class, to being able to retire at age 27. If I were to retire now though, I would stay middle class and god knows middle class is not for me. My point is, I know what it's like to have money and sooner or later the novelty wears off and other things start to matter. You have a pretty extremist view right now, which I'm sure is partially due to the impending election. It will be interesting to see if you still feel the same in eight years, regardless of who gets elected, or what happens in the economy.

Oh and LOL at repug writing silly stories. You play a card game for a living. One you became good at while working hard at it in college. That of course is way different than repug working on his craft while in college. Besides, it's not like authors ever make any money.

[DDTempest]

Ok I had to chime in... trickle down economics is bullshit. Obama isn't increasing taxes, he is suspending a TEMPORARY TAX CUT of the Bush administration. Remember Bush cut taxes for the super rich so that money could "trickle down" to the poor people. Everyone knows that when someone has more money that they use that money to start a business and hire people, right?

You are fucking kidding yourself if you think that one rich man with an extra $100,000 to spend is going to help stimulate the economy better than a hundred families with an extra $1000 would. The rich buy goods and services that cater to the rich, the middle class buys goods and services that cater to everyone and are supplied by everyone.

Do you think that the largest retail companies that employ huge number of Americans cater to the rich? Wal*Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Target, Walgreens, CVS, etc

The rich are going to end up with the money anyways, either they can get it through people spending additional money at their business or they can get it directly. No matter of tax cuts for the rich will create growth. If a business saves $100,000 this year from tax cuts they aren't going to just hire new people and grow their business... they have to MAKE MORE MONEY to grow their business.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Alpha males!

[Ugly Bastard]

Let's put this in terms that are easier to understand. Taken from here

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: * The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. * The fifth would pay $1. * The sixth would pay $3. * The seventh would pay $7. * The eighth would pay $12. * The ninth would pay $18. * The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' 'Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.' The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so: * The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). * The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). * The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). * The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 ( 25% savings). * The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings). * The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. 'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,'but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!' 'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!' The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Let's put this in terms that are easier to understand. Taken from here

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: * The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. * The fifth would pay $1. * The sixth would pay $3. * The seventh would pay $7. * The eighth would pay $12. * The ninth would pay $18. * The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' 'Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.' The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so: * The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). * The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). * The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). * The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 ( 25% savings). * The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings). * The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. 'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,'but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!' 'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!' The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

Using this same analogy for Obama's tax plan:
Pourest Five = nothing
Sixth = $3
Seventh = $5
Eighth = $9
Ninth = $20
Tenth = $63

This is a far cry difference from kicking the shit out of the tenth man. So now eight out of the ten men are in a better financial position. Of those ten men which do you think is hurting for money? Is it the ninth and tenth guy?

And if you really want to take this analogy further, to elaborate for "those of us who don't get it" then what happens when guys one through eight have to pay more to drink and can't afford it? They stay home. There was a reason that each member of the ten payed what they could so that all of the men could be at the table every night. Those paying more found it to be worthwhile to have the guys who were paying less around.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement

You are not taking the stance of the tenth guy, your stance is "fuck those other guys, I'll drink by myself." Have at it sir.

[Repugnant Abomination]

You don't question the alpha male, dude!

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

You don't question the alpha male, dude!

I am the alpha and the omega male.

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

And if you really want to take this analogy further, to elaborate for "those of us who don't get it" then what happens when guys one through eight have to pay more to drink and can't afford it? They stay home. There was a reason that each member of the ten payed what they could so that all of the men could be at the table every night. Those paying more found it to be worthwhile to have the guys who were paying less around.

Until he got the shit kicked out of him and left for Ireland. Have fun staying at home at night.

You understand precisely!

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

Using this same analogy for Obama's tax plan:
Pourest Five = nothing
Sixth = $3
Seventh = $5
Eighth = $9
Ninth = $20
Tenth = $63

This is a far cry difference from kicking the shit out of the tenth man. So now eight out of the ten men are in a better financial position. Of those ten men which do you think is hurting for money? Is it the ninth and tenth guy?

And if you really want to take this analogy further, to elaborate for "those of us who don't get it" then what happens when guys one through eight have to pay more to drink and can't afford it? They stay home. There was a reason that each member of the ten payed what they could so that all of the men could be at the table every night. Those paying more found it to be worthwhile to have the guys who were paying less around.



You are not taking the stance of the tenth guy, your stance is "fuck those other guys, I'll drink by myself." Have at it sir.

The part you are forgetting is that Obama is making the bar charge the rich people more at the same time that down the street there is now a cheaper bar, which has better beer and hotter women.

Corporate taxes have to remain competitive or the rich people buying all our beer will just leave. It's not a new concept.