2012 Election

[Saint DH]

Have you ever been to a primary care provider? Probably at least once to get your tiny little nutsac felt up for a physical. I don't know what the numbers are, but a vast majority of their patients are old people with medicare. I would go so far as to say at least 90% of them are covered by medicare. We are talking about a 35% cut in medicare reimbursements. This would be bad news for healthcare.

The uninsured of this country are young people who, typically, don't have insurance because they are healthy and don't need insurance. Therefore, they don't want to pay for insurance. The "influx" of new patients will not even make a dent in the 35% cut in reimbursements. Primary care physicians are already the lowest paid doctors in medicine. So much so, that medicare pays incentive payments to primary care physicians for providing quality healthcare. These providers are certainly not willing to absorb these cuts because of all the new patients they will be getting. That is bullshit.

We have a shortage of primary care physicians, an aging population, rising healthcare costs, and the solution is to cut provider reimbursements by 35% while at the same time applying healthcare coverage to the entire population? This is insane.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by ninjaface

I thought Paul Ryan was the darling of the tea party.

Not of the Libertarian branch.

[f3lix]

I'm so glad I'm not the only libertarian on this board.

[Beebs]

I'm impartial on it.

[thekremlin]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

source? You sound like an intelligent person with a reasonable argument ... let's hear it.

lol

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Being a Republican is indefensible at this point.

What if you're of the opinion that you want your political beliefs to count (and therefore must select either Republican or Democrat) and you believe the Democrats to be worse?

Maybe you're trolling, but otherwise I don't understand how someone as smart as you can say such broad sweeping statements that are just impossible to be true about every single republican. There's probably over 100 million republicans. And a lot of them are going to be good people.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Have you ever been to a primary care provider? Probably at least once to get your tiny little nutsac felt up for a physical. I don't know what the numbers are, but a vast majority of their patients are old people with medicare. I would go so far as to say at least 90% of them are covered by medicare. We are talking about a 35% cut in medicare reimbursements. This would be bad news for healthcare.

The uninsured of this country are young people who, typically, don't have insurance because they are healthy and don't need insurance. Therefore, they don't want to pay for insurance. The "influx" of new patients will not even make a dent in the 35% cut in reimbursements. Primary care physicians are already the lowest paid doctors in medicine. So much so, that medicare pays incentive payments to primary care physicians for providing quality healthcare. These providers are certainly not willing to absorb these cuts because of all the new patients they will be getting. That is bullshit.

We have a shortage of primary care physicians, an aging population, rising healthcare costs, and the solution is to cut provider reimbursements by 35% while at the same time applying healthcare coverage to the entire population? This is insane.

Oh I thought you were implying that its untrue, now you are just claiming "it sucks"

[Saint DH]

The article claimed that providers were willing to take the cut in reimbursements because the influx of new patients would mitigate the providers' losses. This is a blatant lie.

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

What if you're of the opinion that you want your political beliefs to count (and therefore must select either Republican or Democrat) and you believe the Democrats to be worse?

Maybe you're trolling, but otherwise I don't understand how someone as smart as you can say such broad sweeping statements that are just impossible to be true about every single republican. There's probably over 100 million republicans. And a lot of them are going to be good people.

You do bring up a good point that on a local level voting Republican is not necessarily a bad thing.

Here are some facts though that support my assertion that it's indefensible to vote Republican on the national level. Although I may be wasting my time since it's been demonstrated that Republicans ignore facts more than liberals (they also have a higher sensitivity to fear than liberals and are less prone to tolerating uncertainty).

On the national level, Republicans are liars (30% of Romney's statements rate true or mostly true while 47% of Obama's statements rate true or mostly true) and warmongers. If you look at all the facts side-by-side it becomes really hard to defend a vote for the Republicans on the national level. I mean half the party is based on a mythical creature that is the antithesis of the party's platform.

80-year study: Democrats better at economics | WashingtonExaminer.com





To be clear, the Democrats are full of shit too and almost equally worthless. But they're just not as bad as these Republicans.

[Beebs]

It's a moral sacrifice either way; you have to give up on what you decide are the less important issues.

[Mr. Blonde]

I just caught Michelle Obama's speech from last night. Wow, apparently it's being said that she wrote it herself too. A bit American Dreamy for my taste but excellently done.

Michelle Obama's full DNC speech - YouTube

Michelle Obama's full DNC speech - YouTube

[f3lix]

If we just start voting for third parties, we can completely change politics.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

You do bring up a good point that on a local level voting Republican is not necessarily a bad thing.

Here are some facts though that support my assertion that it's indefensible to vote Republican on the national level. Although I may be wasting my time since it's been demonstrated that Republicans ignore facts more than liberals (they also have a higher sensitivity to fear than liberals and are less prone to tolerating uncertainty).

On the national level, Republicans are liars (30% of Romney's statements rate true or mostly true while 47% of Obama's statements rate true or mostly true) and warmongers. If you look at all the facts side-by-side it becomes really hard to defend a vote for the Republicans on the national level. I mean half the party is based on a mythical creature that is the antithesis of the party's platform.

80-year study: Democrats better at economics | WashingtonExaminer.com





To be clear, the Democrats are full of shit too and almost equally worthless. But they're just not as bad as these Republicans.

Not one thing you've said here explains why I'm evil or stupid for voting Republican. What if I genuinely believe Obama is worse than the alternative? How does that make me stupid? How does that make me evil? Obama's not perfect, you know.

[Ugly Bastard]

Why do you want to vote Republican? Is your only reason because you believe Obama to be worse? Can you point to some specific policies Obama has enacted that you consider to be worse than what you expect Romney to do? What particular policies of Romney's are you hopeful to see enacted?

[Beebs]

Kind of unfair to ask those questions without giving some sort of shot at answering them in the reverse.

[Ugly Bastard]

Right but I'm not advocating anything here other than that voting Republican has no merit.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Right but I'm not advocating anything here other than that voting Republican has no merit.

You seem to be advocating that voting Democrat has merit based around the idea of defeating GOP. You're basically voting. or making the case to vote against Republicans, while giving him shit for voting, or making the case for voting, against Democrats.

[Ugly Bastard]

You're wrong. I don't subscribe to the theory that disliking one party means you endorse the other out of spite.

Why did me presenting FC with those questions make you uncomfortable? It should be a thrill to answer them if you believe in your candidate.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

You're wrong. I don't subscribe to the theory that disliking one party means you endorse the other out if spite.

What is "out of spite"? So your choice to essentially vote against a party is valid and pure, but somebody else doing the same thing clearly has no clue and just voting "out of spite" unless they agree with you.

It's pretty reasonable to vote against something or someone you don't like. Often incumbent vs challenger races where the incumbent loses are based around the idea of voting against the incumbent out of dissatisfaction with their performance.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

You're wrong. I don't subscribe to the theory that disliking one party means you endorse the other out of spite.

Why did me presenting FC with those questions make you uncomfortable? It should be a thrill to answer them if you believe in your candidate.

I'm not uncomfortable, but your basic premise seems to be that nobody could ever vote against Obama without them being spiteful and ignorant. Whereas voting against Romney is different in some way other than actual beliefs.

Shouldn't it be a thrill for you to answer the same questions if you believe in your candidate, even if your candidate is "non-republicans" in general?

I will vote Libertarian probably.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Why do you want to vote Republican? Is your only reason because you believe Obama to be worse? Can you point to some specific policies Obama has enacted that you consider to be worse than what you expect Romney to do? What particular policies of Romney's are you hopeful to see enacted?

I think Obama is more of a populist than Romney, and populism is killing modern society.

[Ugly Bastard]

Lol oh for fuck's sake.

[DJ FC]

So obviously I (and half of America along with me) am either stupid or evil. Or both. Do you understand that people can't take you seriously when you make such obviously false blanket statements?

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

So obviously I (and half of America along with me) am either stupid or evil. Or both. Do you understand that people can't take you seriously when you make such obviously false blanket statements?

I am sure you are Republican for good reason. How many Republicans in America do you think are even a fucking inkling as smart as you are? Maybe 10% you could have an intelligent adult conversation with, maybe >5% who are as smart or smarter you? Don't forget, please, that your experience with Republicans is probably very wealthy, very smart men. This is the social bubble you are surrounded with so it is your major experience of Republicans. But no one can deny the vast majority of Republican (and people, in general -- democrats too.) are fucking batshit retarded. Watch the RNC and the DNC side by side and any fucking able minded adult can see this.

I saw a post the other day about Romney saying he would do away with Medical Marijuana dispensaries, put people growing for the dispensaries in jail. The top comment was a Republican basically saying "I'm a Republican, but the party is NOTHING what it used to be. Why the fuck are Repubs messing so much with state rights?"

The point i'm trying to make is that the party you stick by is absolutely nothing for what it was at it's creation, or even 100 years ago. If the Republican party was anything like it was during the time of Roosevelt, I'd probably be a Republican myself.

But pretty much everything about the party disgusts me. It's avaricious, it's hyper-nationalist, it's war mongering, it's callous, it's racist. Fuck what the Republican party is today.

[Mr. Blonde]

Clinton speech

Watch President Clinton Deliver Nomination Address at the DNC - YouTube

Watch President Clinton Deliver Nomination Address at the DNC - YouTube