The 2nd Amendment - Nubblies.net Forums

ProfessorNumber · 10-29-2003, 08:43 PM

Titan inadvertantly raised a good question in the "Bowling for Columbine" thread: Should automatic weapons be legal to own? No, he didn't actually ask that specific question. But he brought up a good point by saying that the Columbine shooters killed more people because they were using automatic weapons.

SO!

The constitution and its amendments are vague in many respects, because the founding fathers were logical and knew that as time progressed America would change. Therefore, it would seem presumptuous to govern a nation with an antiquated constitution that was designed to rule people in the 18th century. This leads into an argument over the validity and interpretation of the 2nd amendment. That question being: Does the 2nd amendment give Americans the right to own any guns, much less automatic/assault guns?

Obviously back in the early years of our country, the world was quite different. People had experienced tyranny first hand after fighting a long and arduous war to break ties with one such government. The last thing any American wanted was a second tyrannical government, as that would nullify the blood they shed so that they might be free. Arguably, this is the basis for the 2nd amendment:

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Back to the pressing question, does that statement made hundreds of years ago remain valid in today’s modern society? This is a subjective issue, however, it is my belief that the 2nd amendment is still VERY legitimate. Sure, chances are Americans will never have to rise against their own government. Nonetheless, in the small chance that this would occur, there is no possible way the public could fight the government without guns. In fact, it would be near impossible to wage a war without automatic/assault weapons. As Titan has pointed out in a different thread, it is much easier to kill large amounts of people with automatic guns. Without them, the American public would stand little chance against a professional army.

Don’t believe that a public rebellion could have occurred in the 20th century? Nazi's used the existing gun control laws, in Germany, to disarm all but their supporters and seized permanent control. These pre Nazi gun control laws served them so well that they made no changes to them for 5 years. The Nazi Weapons Act (18 Mar 1938) invented the concept of "Handgun Control". Although it would be stupid to blame gun control for WWII, I think that it did play a small role in allowing Hitler to rise. Even assuming it didn’t, this example still shows exactly how gun control could have potentially caused a government to become tyrannical.

Also, on a lesser note, many individual states passed legislation, back in the early years, making guns completely legal.

Rhode Island: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (1842)

Kentucky: [T]he right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1792).

Pennsylvania: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power (1776).

In short, taking away people’s right to own automatic, or even semi-automatic weapons, encroaches on their liberty and capability to keep the government in check.

Pliedes · 10-29-2003, 10:48 PM

The first step to oppressing a people is disarming them.

Saint DH · 10-29-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirty Harry:
The reason we have guns is so that we can protect ourselves, if necessary. And I'm not just talking about some cat burglar that breaks into your house. I'm talking about from any type of opression. Mainly from the government. I'm not saying that this currently is the case, but say one day it were to happen, and no one had any guns to defend ourselves

Osiris · 10-30-2003, 12:03 PM

I want Charlton Heston to die holding a gun... just so the mortician can pry it from his cold, dead hands.

10-29-2003, 08:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
ProfessorNumber Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,215 Internets: 3373	Titan inadvertantly raised a good question in the "Bowling for Columbine" thread: Should automatic weapons be legal to own? No, he didn't actually ask that specific question. But he brought up a good point by saying that the Columbine shooters killed more people because they were using automatic weapons. SO! The constitution and its amendments are vague in many respects, because the founding fathers were logical and knew that as time progressed America would change. Therefore, it would seem presumptuous to govern a nation with an antiquated constitution that was designed to rule people in the 18th century. This leads into an argument over the validity and interpretation of the 2nd amendment. That question being: Does the 2nd amendment give Americans the right to own any guns, much less automatic/assault guns? Obviously back in the early years of our country, the world was quite different. People had experienced tyranny first hand after fighting a long and arduous war to break ties with one such government. The last thing any American wanted was a second tyrannical government, as that would nullify the blood they shed so that they might be free. Arguably, this is the basis for the 2nd amendment: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Back to the pressing question, does that statement made hundreds of years ago remain valid in today’s modern society? This is a subjective issue, however, it is my belief that the 2nd amendment is still VERY legitimate. Sure, chances are Americans will never have to rise against their own government. Nonetheless, in the small chance that this would occur, there is no possible way the public could fight the government without guns. In fact, it would be near impossible to wage a war without automatic/assault weapons. As Titan has pointed out in a different thread, it is much easier to kill large amounts of people with automatic guns. Without them, the American public would stand little chance against a professional army. Don’t believe that a public rebellion could have occurred in the 20th century? Nazi's used the existing gun control laws, in Germany, to disarm all but their supporters and seized permanent control. These pre Nazi gun control laws served them so well that they made no changes to them for 5 years. The Nazi Weapons Act (18 Mar 1938) invented the concept of "Handgun Control". Although it would be stupid to blame gun control for WWII, I think that it did play a small role in allowing Hitler to rise. Even assuming it didn’t, this example still shows exactly how gun control could have potentially caused a government to become tyrannical. Also, on a lesser note, many individual states passed legislation, back in the early years, making guns completely legal. Rhode Island: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (1842) Kentucky: [T]he right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned (1792). Pennsylvania: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power (1776). In short, taking away people’s right to own automatic, or even semi-automatic weapons, encroaches on their liberty and capability to keep the government in check.
	Smoke a cigarette and lie some more -- These conversations kill.

10-29-2003, 10:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	The first step to oppressing a people is disarming them.

10-30-2003, 12:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
Osiris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 205 Internets: 10	I want Charlton Heston to die holding a gun... just so the mortician can pry it from his cold, dead hands.