and you can have the rope back. I think public executions would help prevent crime. Heck, if all we had to do was keep the budget under $300,000 to save money, we could come up with all sorts of unusual/cruel ways to get rid of criminals. Any suggestions?

The eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth idea would be a good start.

And the whole world would be blind and toothless.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

What do we define as cruel and unusual though? Many argue that the death penelty is excessively cruel.

[ October 08, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Osiris ]

Bullcrap, America's death penalty is weak. That's why we have so much crime. Look at most Asian countries. They are allowed to cane you and stuff like that, but that keeps their crime rate low. In America, even if you are convicted to die, what do you get: a shot that makes you fall asleep, and you don't wake up again. Criminals should die in the way that they killed people or worse. If they shot someone, they get shot. If they stabbed someone, they get stabbed. Crime rates drop through the floor. Guaranteed.

I hate the last part of the 8th amendment. Cruel and Unusual is the only thing that gets the point across anymore. Public embarrasment, firing squads, guillotines, the judicial weapons of the past shouldn't have died with their societies.

Alright Schroeder, what the fuck ever. I used to think that same way, then I grew up and realized that way of thinking is stupid.

First of all, what if the person to be executed was convicted of the murders of two people that he hacked up into pieces with an axe. You would say that this person should also be hacked up into little pieces with an axe. What if that person didn't do it? Now not only is he killed, but he's brutally murdered. That's nice.

Second off, who in the fuck is going to want to do that? Who in their right mind would want the job of hacking some sick fucker up with an axe. It's fucking retarded.

I'll do it. Lighting bolts are getting old. I think an axe would be a nice change of pace.

I think butcher would be perfect for a job like that.

If someone would do something as terrible as that, than they deserve to die that way. As for the innocent people, that is unfortunate, but at least they would have piece of mind to know that they hadn't actually done it. Sadly, thousands of people have probably died while being innocent. Regardless of how the death penalty is implemented, it wouldn't change that fact, so it's a non-point.

Schroeder, I think your entire viewpoint would change if it were your brother that was wrongfully executed by being hacked to death with an axe.

[ October 08, 2003, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Dirty Harry ]

Yeah, but since that is hypothetical, I'm going to ignore it. Dirty Harry, you're the last person I expected to be against this.

This thread is exactly what we've been talking about in my Introduction To Corrections class. My prof in that class has one of the best ideas for punishing criminals I've ever heard of. It's so good, I've taken the time to draw it out for you:

http://www.nubblies.net/ubb/uploads/1065653479.JPG
I spelled "until" wrong in my picture, I know.

He calls his idea "Criminal County". In it, he says that every state will dedicate one county in their state to being a prison of sorts. The county will have a wall, or at least a well barbed fence around it. Anyone from anywhere may enter Criminal County at will, but anyone sentenced to Criminal County may never leave until their sentence runs out.

Within Criminal County would be a prison. Any serious violent offenders would be sentenced to prison in Criminal County. If they were serving 25 years, once their 25 years was up, they would be released, but not from Criminal County, only from Criminal County's Prison, they would have to live out the rest of their life in Criminal County.

More modest offenders, petty shoplifters, etc, would serve out their time somewhere in the realm of Criminal County, but not in the prison.

There's a lot more to it than that, but I don't really want to try to re-cant it all. But you get the idea by now I'm sure.

Giddy-up.

-Ugly Bastard

[ October 08, 2003, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Ugly Bastard ]

Where does criminal county get it's tax money. Nobody in the county pays taxes. Nobody would want to set up businesses, either.

Well they better or else they'll all starve to death. I'm sure they'll figure something out.

what do you need taxes for .. they are criminals, they do not need luxuries

Schroeder-

The rest of the county is just like any other county, except it is home to criminals, that's all. Walmart's can still be built, normal people would still live there, it would just be the home to some petty criminals too. All of the dangerous criminals would be locked up, and not released until they were no longer a danger to society.

-Ugly Bastard

[ October 09, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Ugly Bastard ]

Absolutely great idea, Schroeder. Hell, while we're at it, why don't we just create a reality show called, "You're on Death Row". The contestants would compete for a more merciful death, while the the losers would be brutally hacked to pieces by Christians such as Schroeder.

I love people who are so fucking stupid that they think killing another person will somehow avenge a murdered person. What does the death penalty accomplish? All it does is kill another person. And, it obviously doesn't stop people from killing.

Instead of the death penalty, we'll just chain them to Vol for life.

I'm afraid that too would fall under cruel and unusual punishment. Anyone faced with that punishment would most definitely kill themselves.

UB: do you honestly think people would want to live in a county such as that one? Not knowing that the people around you have commited crimes and could turn to their old ways at any moment?

Capital punishment is not about avenging a death.
Wrong, capital punishment eliminates a dangerous person. It saves much, much more money than having that person serve a life sentence. In jail, those accused suck up valuable taxpayer dollars that could be used elsewhere. Also, don't forget that they could escape, providing a terrible threat to society that could have been nipped in the bud.
Capital punishment would stop more people from killing if the United States would make a bigger deal about it.

Don't even try to get me on this not being very Christian. I'm all about an eye for an eye: You get what you give out. At no time have I overstepped the bounds on Christianity with this belief.

It is.

Schroeder, it's a matter of symantics; when is killing EVER justified? I personally believe it is NEVER justified.

Yeah, change the subject. Can't match up to me? I knew you couldn't.

You stupid fuckhead, It's not that I couldn't match up to you. I realized that your arguments are valid. BUT, that doesn't change the fact that you are still a fucker, and that I disagree with them. I feel that killing, for any reason whatsoever, is wrong.

Therefore, this is a battle of symantics, which no one can win. No matter how many convincing arguments you present, you won't change my opinion. Fucker.

Quack.

You're obvious addition to that sentence would be that Capital punishment is a deterrent to murder for others, correct? Let me ask you, if given the choice after killing someone would you rather kill yourself or be forced to live the rest of your natural life in a 9 by 9 cell? If you'd choose the latter it's only because you're a fuck. Life in prison WITHOUT parole has so much more opportunity to be a deterrent to violent crimes. I'd much rather cease to exist rather than have to see my victim's face scream for mercy every god forsaken night.

Or an innocent one, but of course, that's fine... seriously. Fuck the innocent, I say they're all guilty until proven otherwise after their deaths.

So, if we go by Schroeder's way of logic... Seeing that killing a human being (on purpose) is a sin... Then whoever kills the inmate, then will be put on trial and sentenced to death, then whoever pulls the switch for the new inmate will be put on trial also. Creating a massive cycle of Christian value and godliness for the whole world to follow... Until no one is left.

I would love to do that job, however, I would only do it once. To Schroeder, even if he didn't kill anyone.

Yeah, but that's because you're a normal person. Most criminals accused of doing something so heinous as to warrant a death sentence probably feel no remorse for it. Even if that is the way the criminal wanted it, at least they are dead, and no longer a burden to society.

Quote:

Originally posted by Alpha: So, if we go by Schroeder's way of logic... Seeing that killing a human being (on purpose) is a sin... Then whoever kills the inmate, then will be put on trial and sentenced to death, then whoever pulls the switch for the new inmate will be put on trial also. Creating a massive cycle of Christian value and godliness for the whole world to follow... Until no one is left.

Since when has the executioner been placed under the confines of normal criminals? The executioners good is greater than the sin he commits.