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Old 11-12-2003, 03:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I'm doing a speech on the topic and doing your own poll impresses professors, so, i'm doing a poll

its pretty simple, human cloning is on its way to becoming a reality, are you for it, against it, or undecided, and why (if you'd be so kind as to share).

thanks :]
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I say do it. Hell yeah.
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I say that until they find an actual purpose besides quelling our curiosity for cloning, then go ahead. But as of right now, besides specific organ cloning, there is no reason for cloning a full human being.

I wrote a paper on this very issue along with the good/bad points concerning the human genome project as well. It was one of the best papers/think pieces I wrote this semester.
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
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you wanna share that paper chuck? ;]
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Old 11-12-2003, 04:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I say hell yeah we do it...sure there will be some things down the road that we'll bump into that will make us regret the day we tried to play God, but until that day comes...fuck it.

The real question is: Would you want to be cloned? I would not.

-Ugly Bastard
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Old 11-12-2003, 05:28 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Sim, if you want me to post the paper, I would be willing to. But it's a long'un....be warned. However, if I put it out of double space format, it might not be as huge.
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Old 11-12-2003, 05:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It would be about half as huge, eh?
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Old 11-12-2003, 06:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah. Very perceptive....
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Old 11-12-2003, 10:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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im all for human cloning. id love to have a clone to do the things in life i hate the most. i mean come on, who wouldnt?
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Old 11-12-2003, 10:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
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if we keep meddling with this kind of stuff, we are going to be in trouble. we have no reason to clone humans. if we do, we will go clone crazy, and knowing us dumb americans we would clone so many they would rise against and kill everyone. damn clones.
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Old 11-12-2003, 12:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by downwiththeX's:
if we keep meddling with this kind of stuff, we are going to be in trouble. we have no reason to clone humans. if we do, we will go clone crazy, and knowing us dumb americans we would clone so many they would rise against and kill everyone. damn clones.
And then, a bunch of ass raping chimpanzees will rain from the skies and kidnap all of the male anal virgins, because like, they're soooo crazy that after they're done, they'll rise up and kill everyone that the clones haven't gotten to.

Okay, now that I've gotten the retardedness out of my system, I'm all for cloning. Not only that, I wouldn't totally mind having a clone of myself around. I'd get to raise myself the way I should've been raised. I think some of you might of forgot that it still wouldn't be possible to clone you to the age you are now. My clone will be 17 years younger than me. It'd be more like having a kickass younger brother that just happens to look exactly like I did, and share the same basic genetic makeup, and not only that, it'd be amazingly badass.
Edit: Spelling sex.

[ November 12, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]

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Old 11-12-2003, 03:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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anyone mind if i quote them in my speech?
no real names shall be revealed
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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We can't let a few bleeding hearts and moral uncertainties hinder our vast technological conquests.

Why not clone? The clone wouldn't appreciate it? We'll genetically shape the clone to not give a fuck.

What's that? We can't do that with genetics? Probably not, and we'll probably never be able to if we keep putting up road blocks in the path of study.

Not because we can, not because we must, but because it's the next step. Cloning. For tomorrow's sake.
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You morons are so blind.

You think that they honestly haven't already started cloning humans? Right, and the government doesn't have missile destroying laser systems.

If you would just look around you would see human cloning already. You know when you see that guy at college that looks exactly like the guy you knew from high school, but isn't? That's because it is him, but isn't. It's not a coincidence, there are examples of clones everywhere.

*Omzagro points to self*

And the funny thing is... we're taking over.
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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first of all,Omzagro, you're a dumb ass
now that i have that out of the way...

IF (that's a big if) cloning humans ever becomes legal, they're going to have to study the process for many years before it becomes "open to the public." Even then, (now i could be wrong) but i doubt they're going to let just any random person with a ton of cash walk in and make a clone of themself.
One of the main reasons people want to be cloned is because they are infertile and want to be able to have children. The in vito fertilization process that is currently the most commonly used fertilization method for these couples ranges from about $7,000-10,000 per attempt, and there is only a 29% chance of success. Cloning humans, should this become legal, will most likely be a tad bit more expensive than this, with an even smaller success rate. Right now, cloning mammals is more successful than it used to be, but not by much, and not by enough that it shows we're ready to move onto humans. Dolly, the famous sheep, was the first success after 276 failures. I'm not a math major, but I do believe that's about a .36% chance of success. In more recent years, a kitten named Carbon Copy was cloned, it was the first success after 86 attempts. Success rate: 1.16% those are tiny numbers.

I don't know the genetic make up of sheep or even humans for that matter, but I do know we're different, and most of the sources I found for my speech are concerned about cloning humans because they fear the process will be much more difficult to do.

Point: scientifically, we're no where near ready to successfully clone a human

and i could go on about all the other aspects of the topic, but i need to get back to working on my speech [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ November 12, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: sim_flex_x ]
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Of course we're not ready. I'm not saying that we need to set up a cloning experiment tomorrow, I'm saying that we shouldn't shut the door on the issue...
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Old 11-12-2003, 04:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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sometime when i have more time i'll explain the arguments that support the idea that cloning humans anytime in the future is a horrible idea

but i haven't the time now
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Old 11-12-2003, 04:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Alright sim, buy yourself more time to try to throw together an argument. I'll be waiting.
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Old 11-12-2003, 04:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i've got a four page argument in the process, but i'm more concerned for my grade than i am about proving you wrong
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Old 11-12-2003, 05:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Here's the thing. As I stand now, I'm against the concept of human cloning, but it is going to happen other places in the world regardless of if America doesn't touch the issue. So in order to capitalize on the future industry and make it safer and more effective, I think we should go for it.

Why am I against it though?

Cloning makes a mockery of the value of human life. What are we to do with all of the 'mistakes' or 'failures'? Are the clones even people? If so, do they have full rights as a human being? That would invalidate the use of clones for organ farming. Then we're just making people for fun. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions and other uses, I'm just pointing out one.

Here is my personal fear though. I personally believe that what makes everyone a human being is their soul. It gives us our conscience and is part of what really distinguishes us from the animals. Now, right now, in this thread, isn't the time to get in a debate about theism/atheism, mostly because I'm starting a fun thread on that very soon. But I'm just saying, if they can create a human being without a soul; now that is a scary thing.

Again, my apprehensions being said, I still think it is inevitable that human cloning will happen, so we may as well proceed with the highest levels of safety and ethics as possible.

[ November 12, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Pliedes ]
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Old 11-12-2003, 08:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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See, here's the thing. If we end up cloning human beings, they will end up looking like us, but they won't BE us. They'll still be human beings, just human beings that have been copied from our specific DNA.

This doesn't mean that the patterns and happenings in their lives will make them turn out exactly like us in any way. They're lives will obviously take their own path, most likely not following in our own footsteps. There are so many outward influences that are responsible for the decisions and happenings in our lives. There's no way that anyone can replicate all of these influences in order to steer our clone in the exact direction that we've already gone.

There's also the fact that clones are still human, which means that they will most likely (i.e. WILL) have souls. There isn't any part of copying DNA that takes our brain/thought process out of the picture.

Taking this into consideration, it means that cloning has the potential to be even more harmful. If clones were just docile servants with inanimate minds, only having the purpose of following what we tell them to do, the situation of cloning would pose a whole different matter.

But creating another human being, whether it be from natural or scientific methods, means you end up with a human being. It's that plain and simple.

This is part of the reason why I don't see a purpose for cloning. You can't say that having a younger copy of you would be extremely advantageous.....it'd be just like having a little brother/sister that looked exactly like you. They can't help you rob banks, they can't show up to school for you, they can't do anything that having an actual copy of you at this very moment would be like.

Cloning could present some advantages. But right now, it just seems that scientific curiosity is the leading purpose for pursuing most of the scientific studies that are taking place in this area.

[ November 12, 2003, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Combat Chuck ]
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ugly Bastard:
Would you want to be cloned?
I already have a fucking clone and I sure as hell don't want another. It's too easy for you to get fucked over because of your clone. Fuck human cloning, it's the worst idea i've ever heard.

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Old 11-13-2003, 03:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Wow, I forgot that Trout is actually a credible source on this topic.
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