An International World

[SittinOnDubsWGW]

I don't see a negative aspect. They are getting a better standard of living then previously, we are getting cheaper products/labor. These people are not being exploited so to speak, such as FC said. To us, it may seem like "damn, these guys are getting the shaft," but really they are loving the fact that they are able to be employed with better conditions and better pay than before their factory work.

If we were to bump their level of living comparable to ours and give them similar benefits, why the hell would we have production there?

[theMerciless1]

these people are "exploited" because of several reasons.
for example, every country has laws governing labor.
some countries are better at enforcing these labor laws.
as you could probably guess, the countries that dont do such a good job are the ones with factories from highly developed nations.
the people are being exploited according to the laws of thier respective countries.

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

okay. I just think, in fact i urge you to try and take a globalization and the third world course (that actually looks at more negative aspects of america's impact on the world than positive...if they have them at IU) before you graduate.

If there's one thing I've discovered through the study of History and Economics it is this:

The more contact a 3rd World Nation has with a developed nation (even in the extreme cases of warfare), the better the 3rd world nation is off in the end. I'm not even debating the extreme cases.

If America were to pull economic investment out of 3rd world countries (especially manufacturing) the effect on the 3rd world country could be devastating. You have to remember, slavery is not an issue here... and in all instances any example I am describing involves voluntary employment. If someone is voluntarily working in certain conditions, it means it must be the best alternative that they see.

3rd world countries today are about the same as America was during the industrial revolution. The work week wasn't always 40 hours (indeed in America it's actually less than 40 now). And working conditions weren't always as good. But the natural progression is to work through these things.

Ask any economist: The outsourcing of manufacturing and low level skilled services has a positive net effect for both players. Only overly-emotional people argue otherwise.

You know there are shittier jobs even in the US. Take deep sea fishing - the most dangerous job known to man. People die regularily, they loose limbs, they become ill. But nobody is forcing people to do this. And when you sit down at Red Lobster you are damn glad that somebody does the dirty work for you. The beauty of economics is that everything is voluntary. And the more options you offer a person, the better off they become.

[Mr. Blonde]

I want to do some research on deep sea fishing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/1136721.stm

Fishing labelled 'most dangerous job'
Fishing at sea may be the most dangerous occupation in the world, according to a United Nations report.
An average of 70 fishermen lose their lives every day, says the report by the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), published in Italy.

Fishing deaths
Italy - 21 times national average
US - 25 to 30 times national average
Australia - 18 times national average

[Mr. Blonde]

oh i wasnt doubting you, i've heard that before, i was just interested. but thanks regardless.

[Ugly Bastard]

What makes fishing so dangerous?!

[theMerciless1]

the ocean and the weather

[Ugly Bastard]

70 people die per day though? Jesus Christ. That's a lot of people to never hear anything about it. So these guys just go out and their ships drown or something? I find this all very hard to believe. Can someone give me a better answer than themerciless1? (No disrespect intended - but that's a pretty general answer).

[theMerciless1]

thats gotta be a worldwide figure, so taking into consideration that there are billions of people on or around coastlines thats actually not too bad of a number. it might even include recreational fishing but prolly not.

and how dare you mock the zen-like simplicity of my answer.

It does not include recreational fishing.

Seas are rough and people fall overboard, and the equipment they use is dangerous, in an unpredictable environment. I watched a special on crab fishing once off the coast of Alaska, it's pretty amazing stuff what people will do for a living.

[theMerciless1]

the deadliest season was awesome!

[migite]

deep sea fishing is also one of the highest paid jobs in the world but its seasonal. divers and oil rig workers get highly paid too but the risks are just as great.

[jbonham]

I agree with FC on the Economics issue. No matter the situation percieved after the influence of an industrialized nation has begun, the situation is bettered by the fact that people now have A JOB that they couldn't have had before. Now they can eat, at least a little bit. This is fact...however, it doesn't mean that conditions for those factories in those third world countries should not be improved.

Exploit is subjective: we pay them better or the work is better...otherwise there would be no labor force to pool from. Like it or not, America industrializing a third world country helps them. Try reading about American and English industrialization. Sure it was rough, but after going through it we became better. Some countries don't make it through the process and remain poverty stricken mainly due to political or social strife. However, I would rather be able to at least get paid if I lived in a country that offered no government support and had no entreprenurial or economic ability to advance its' own technologies into a self-sustaining industry than to starve helplessly.

[migite]

Mars, i'm gonna rename you Porter