It's a new day in America - Page 3 - Nubblies.net Forums

DJ FC · 10-01-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

I think from now on, it would be better to call the old GOP - the establishment GOP and the new wave The Tea Party. They are two totally different breads of people.

For one, I'm all for establishment getting thrown out of Congress. Whether it be GOP or Dem, Establishment candidates are groomed by the same people and make gov't bigger.

The problem, and UB acknowledges this, is that there was an old Tea Party and a current Tea Party. The old one was wise and Libertarian. The current Tea Party is hillbilly and racist.

f3lix · 10-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Kremlin, please show me one single US political office which is "poorly paid." Don't forget to include benefits.

Mr. Blonde · 10-01-2010, 10:23 PM

All relative. Him and FC are probably doing pretty well for themselves.

Der Fuhrer · 10-01-2010, 11:03 PM

I think Kremlin was pointing out that, relative to their responsibilities, political officers are quite underpaid. However, as f3lix pointed out, they receive non monetary compensation benefits which are highly valued. The value of these extra benefits are, of course, scaled with the level of responsibility required for the given position. One might say that the reason for low monetary compensation is to eliminate the desire for monetary gain by being elected to public office, thereby placing those whose main concern is for the benefit of the public into office. However, this is seemingly neutralized by the excess of auxiliary benefits. I think it's fair to say that politicians are more than generously compensated for their work. If they were not, I don't see how so many would aspire to take on the costs of running a successful campaign.

DJ FC · 10-02-2010, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

Kremlin, please show me one single US political office which is "poorly paid." Don't forget to include benefits.

F3lix: There's not a single political office which I would accept for the given level of pay. I'd accept them for other reasons, but not for the pay alone. And most people bright enough to deserve public office will have better options. The only ones who accept the job are either:

A) In love with themselves
or
B) In love with power

They aren't in it for the compensation.

Obama gets 400k salary plus 50k expenses. Let's just assume his total take-home is 1mm.

That probably doens't get him into the top 500 executives in America. And he's one of the best-paid government employees. The private sector just pays better. And it probably should. Because the government should be smaller. But since it's not, and since we've given these people such responsibility, we should at least pay attractive wages so the quality people would want the jobs. You've got a real problem if even I wouldn't want a government job because the pay is too low.

Der Fuhrer · 10-02-2010, 02:50 AM

Whats crazy is that most government jobs, other than political offices, pay MUCH better than similar type jobs in the private sector.

thekremlin · 10-02-2010, 07:46 AM

Right. It's not like we don't pay government workers, we just don't pay pols, because the perception is paying them would corrupt them. So instead the result is only easily corruptible people go into politics.

On the other hand, it's not like private sectors don't ever fail to allign employee incentives.

DDTempest · 10-02-2010, 09:07 AM

Don't most of these offices (senate, house, president) get substantial pensions for the rest of their lives?

f3lix · 10-02-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ FC

F3lix: There's not a single political office which I would accept for the given level of pay. I'd accept them for other reasons, but not for the pay alone. And most people bright enough to deserve public office will have better options. The only ones who accept the job are either:

A) In love with themselves
or
B) In love with power

They aren't in it for the compensation.

Obama gets 400k salary plus 50k expenses. Let's just assume his total take-home is 1mm.

That probably doens't get him into the top 500 executives in America. And he's one of the best-paid government employees. The private sector just pays better. And it probably should. Because the government should be smaller. But since it's not, and since we've given these people such responsibility, we should at least pay attractive wages so the quality people would want the jobs. You've got a real problem if even I wouldn't want a government job because the pay is too low.

Thank you for not answering my question and instead trying to point out that you make a fuck load of money and think you're too good to be in the "public service" industry.

DDTempest · 10-04-2010, 05:00 AM

I made this for you f3lix

DJ FC · 10-04-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

Thank you for not answering my question and instead trying to point out that you make a fuck load of money and think you're too good to be in the "public service" industry.

I gave you the answer: The President.

f3lix · 10-04-2010, 11:53 AM

Do not confuse "poorly paid" with "underpaid." 400k/yr tax free, 50k in spending money, secret service for a decade following presidency, plus high-paid appearance fees forever make this as far from "poorly paid" as possible.

Try again.

ninjaface · 10-04-2010, 05:22 PM

Don't forget to add in the possible book sales.

Der Fuhrer · 10-04-2010, 05:41 PM

And in Obama's case, don't forget to add in the winnings from the craps games.

thekremlin · 10-04-2010, 06:03 PM

It's poorly paid if he can get more doing something else. It's a very good example.

f3lix · 10-04-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekremlin

It's poorly paid if he can get more doing something else. It's a very good example.

If you're going to go down that road, I'd say he's OVER paid. As a U.S. President, he will go down in history. His choices will change this country forever. He's a service man more than anything and in that sense, shouldn't be paid at all.

thekremlin · 10-05-2010, 02:52 AM

Great, and when you incent people with fame and the concept of a "legacy" you end up with presidents trying to leave their marks on a country... bush with Iraq and Obama with healthcare... instead of presidents trying to do the best things for the citizens. Phenomenal.

DJ FC · 10-05-2010, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

Do not confuse "poorly paid" with "underpaid." 400k/yr tax free, 50k in spending money, secret service for a decade following presidency, plus high-paid appearance fees forever make this as far from "poorly paid" as possible.

Try again.

It's about as "poorly paid" as you can get. He's the executive with the most power in America, yet probably not in the top 500 best paid executives.

Mr. Blonde · 10-07-2010, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometric progression as they rise.

Equality: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

Just found this. Thought it was interesting.

THEINCREDIBLEdork · 10-07-2010, 02:15 AM

[removed]

10-01-2010, 10:23 PM	#53 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	All relative. Him and FC are probably doing pretty well for themselves.
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

10-07-2010, 02:15 AM	#70 (permalink)
THEINCREDIBLEdork Emperor Meow Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,350 Internets: 290966	[removed]
	#YOLO

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10-01-2010, 12:12 PM	#52 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Kremlin, please show me one single US political office which is "poorly paid." Don't forget to include benefits.

10-01-2010, 11:03 PM	#54 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	I think Kremlin was pointing out that, relative to their responsibilities, political officers are quite underpaid. However, as f3lix pointed out, they receive non monetary compensation benefits which are highly valued. The value of these extra benefits are, of course, scaled with the level of responsibility required for the given position. One might say that the reason for low monetary compensation is to eliminate the desire for monetary gain by being elected to public office, thereby placing those whose main concern is for the benefit of the public into office. However, this is seemingly neutralized by the excess of auxiliary benefits. I think it's fair to say that politicians are more than generously compensated for their work. If they were not, I don't see how so many would aspire to take on the costs of running a successful campaign.

10-02-2010, 02:50 AM	#56 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	Whats crazy is that most government jobs, other than political offices, pay MUCH better than similar type jobs in the private sector.

10-02-2010, 07:46 AM	#57 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	Right. It's not like we don't pay government workers, we just don't pay pols, because the perception is paying them would corrupt them. So instead the result is only easily corruptible people go into politics. On the other hand, it's not like private sectors don't ever fail to allign employee incentives.

10-04-2010, 11:53 AM	#62 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Do not confuse "poorly paid" with "underpaid." 400k/yr tax free, 50k in spending money, secret service for a decade following presidency, plus high-paid appearance fees forever make this as far from "poorly paid" as possible. Try again.

10-04-2010, 05:22 PM	#63 (permalink)
ninjaface Level 20 Holothetan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Space Posts: 5,245 Internets: 210144	Don't forget to add in the possible book sales.

10-04-2010, 05:41 PM	#64 (permalink)
Der Fuhrer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 549 Internets: 5464	And in Obama's case, don't forget to add in the winnings from the craps games.

10-04-2010, 06:03 PM	#65 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	It's poorly paid if he can get more doing something else. It's a very good example.

10-05-2010, 02:52 AM	#67 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	Great, and when you incent people with fame and the concept of a "legacy" you end up with presidents trying to leave their marks on a country... bush with Iraq and Obama with healthcare... instead of presidents trying to do the best things for the citizens. Phenomenal.