High Things!

[Ironic Mustache]

We differ on the stance that 18 year olds are actually adults. 18 year olds in the vast majority are children who should still have decisions made for them. What if an 18 year old was elected president? Do you trust their decision making abilities to run the country? Do you even actually trust them to move out of their house and pay their bills on time without having to move back in with mom and dad at least one more time?

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

We differ on the stance that 18 year olds are actually adults. 18 year olds in the vast majority are children who should still have decisions made for them. What if an 18 year old was elected president? Do you trust their decision making abilities to run the country? Do you even actually trust them to move out of their house and pay their bills on time without having to move back in with mom and dad at least one more time?

We have to decide on an age of majority, and 18 is the norm across the civilized world, it works. The fact that they have their decisions made for them is really not an issue, it is an issue of responsibility; an 18 year old is responsible for his own actions, no matter how stupid he is, therefore he has the right to make them.

If an 18 year old has the ability to get himself elected President, he is probably the most capable politician in the history of the world.

[Ironic Mustache]

Again though, age of majority does not necessarily equal, "the right to do everything." We have several laws in place that limit the rights of these so-called adults, and I hardly think America's biggest problem is that these limitations don't match their legal adulthood status. America isn't suddenly going to get better if we drop the drinking age.

If an 18 year old has the ability to get himself elected President, he is probably the most capably politician in the history of the world.

Although extremist, the fact that you recognize this proves my point. The vast majority of 18 year olds are not even equipped to handle the responsibilities of voting for office, let alone serving office. Be honest, when you were 18 how much research did you do on the political topics?

[Ironic Mustache]

Game, set, match.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

Again though, age of majority does not necessarily equal, "the right to do everything." We have several laws in place that limit the rights of these so-called adults, and I hardly think America's biggest problem is that these limitations don't match their legal adulthood status. America isn't suddenly going to get better if we drop the drinking age.

Of course it's not the most important thing; but changing the voting age, which is where this came from is absolutely a huge issue.

Again, I don't think America is going to suddenly get better, but it is ethically preferable and the drinking age across the rest of the world, and our own past, shows that America isn't going to go to hell if we let 18 year olds drink legally rather than let them drink illegally.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

Game, set, match.

LOL that is a great pic.

However, it was staged, if you look carefully I'm not actually that drunk, just thought it would make a cool picture.

Now wanna see the ones from halloween, as a 26 year old?

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Beebs

. . . just thought it would make a cool picture.

The reasoning of an 18 year old.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

The reasoning of an 18 year old.

Made it through the whole trip just fine. Honestly, should that picture be evidence of a crime? I believe I was 20.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

Although extremist, the fact that you recognize this proves my point. The vast majority of 18 year olds are not even equipped to handle the responsibilities of voting for office, let alone serving office. Be honest, when you were 18 how much research did you do on the political topics?

Wait, fucked that part up, disregard if you quoted before ninja edit.
If you have a citizen that must fulfill legal obligations, they are entitled to their legal rights, this is a basic principle of human freedom.

Honestly I am a history nerd and read quite extensively about geopolitics quite a bit.

[f3lix]

If this country was dumb enough to vote in Obama based on "hope and change" when he had NEVER held an executive office and wreaked of arrogance, then this country could very well elect an 18 year old.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

America isn't suddenly going to get better if we drop the drinking age.

Nothing happens suddenly. It will probably take about 2-5 years for everybody to "get used to". But honestly, part of the reason most of us probably started drinking in high school (or middle school) was because it was "forbidden" and "cool", and the myriad other social influences that go into it. I don't know a single person who wanted to drink but stayed sober until they were 21 on account of the law; not a single one. I've met people who had never been into bars till 21 (myself included) or who were successfully indoctrinated by their parents or religion and didn't start drinking till later (minority), but I reckon that almost everyone on this board drank before they were even 18.

You would do well to remember, IM, that for our parents and the generations before them, in many states, the drinking age was 18. It didn't change until '84 with the National Minimum Drinking Age Act:

also called the Federal Uniform Drinking Age Act, was passed on July 17, 1984 by the United States Congress as a mechanism whereby all states would become thereafter required to legislate and enforce the age of 21 years as a minimum age for purchasing and publicly possessing alcoholic beverages. Under the Federal Aid Highway Act, a state not enforcing the minimum age would be subjected to a ten percent decrease in its annual federal highway apportionment.

Regardless, Beebs has a point in that almost every nation on the planet either doesn't have a legal drinking age at all or it's just 18 years old, and we have to be near the top of countries with severe social problems influenced by alcohol. I don't mean to dumb it down to something as easy as "if we lower it, kids won't care about it as much!" because obviously that won't be a panacea for the entire situation, but I do think that in the long run it would help.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by f3lix

If this country was dumb enough to vote in Obama based on "hope and change" when he had NEVER held an executive office and wreaked of arrogance, then this country could very well elect an 18 year old.

And you actually believe that?

5 years from now you people will want to raise the voting age to 30, and on and on.

[f3lix]

Several states allow for minors to drink, as long as it is their parent who supplies them and is with them during consumption.

Also, I just met the first person I've met who waited til 21 to drink. She's been drinking since (and it's been about a month.) She's a Christian girl who is quickly growing up. Curious to see how her life changes now.

[Ugly Bastard]

I never got intoxicated until I was 21. Two hands are sufficient to count the number of alcoholic beverages I drank while underage.

[f3lix]

Originally Posted by Beebs

And you actually believe that?

5 years from now you people will want to raise the voting age to 30, and on and on.

In past societies, countries were run by people as young as 10. It's not unheard of. The idiotic state of the people in this country was proven in the 2008 election.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by f3lix

In past societies, countries were run by people as young as 10. It's not unheard of. The idiotic state of the people in this country was proven in the 2008 election.

Yes, because they were monarchies, and didn't allow citizens to choose their leaders....wait, that second part sounds familiar.

Like I said, I often don't like the results, but thoughtlessly removing basic legal, human for that matter, rights is simply not an option for anybody with integrity.

[f3lix]

Removing and changing rights are not the same thing. Changing the voting laws in this country has occurred three times. Why not make it 4?

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by f3lix

Removing and changing rights are not the same thing. Changing the voting laws in this country has occurred three times. Why not make it 4?

"Changing rights" that is a spectacular euphemism.

First of all, voting laws have changed a hell of a lot more than 4 times; the 4 times you are talking about however, all gave people the right to vote, as a recognition that it was morally unacceptable for them not to be able to.

In fact I think you will all find quite sound reasoning as to why 18 years can and should be able to vote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-...s_Constitution

[f3lix]

Originally Posted by Beebs

"Changing rights" that is a spectacular euphemism.

I really think this deserves +rep. I thought it was amazing, myself.

[Ironic Mustache]

You should have to pass a test that proves you've researched the issues
before you're allowed to vote.

[f3lix]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

You should have to pass a test that proves you've researched the issues
before you're allowed to vote.

Totally agree. Or at least identify 3 planks each candidate support. I'd also like to see all party affiliations removed from ballots, along with not allowing for the "Straight ticket" option.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

If black people weren't allowed to run for president Obama would have never been the president.

Think about it.

[f3lix]

But he's half white.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

You should have to pass a test that proves you've researched the issues
before you're allowed to vote.

That is 100% guaranteed to be abused at every and any opportunity.

Putting elected officials in charge of who gets to vote to elect them, that sounds good.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by f3lix

Totally agree. Or at least identify 3 planks each candidate support. I'd also like to see all party affiliations removed from ballots, along with not allowing for the "Straight ticket" option.

This is absurdly naive. You can't eliminate parties, which you didn't call for I realize, but without eliminating them they will still have members running for office and people will vote accordingly.

Parties serve a valid, I'd say vital, role in the electoral process, and exist because we want them to.