High Things!

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

I'm really really rusty on my Criminal Justice shit since college, but I seem to remember a loophole where that if you denied a search, if they bring a K-9 unit out they can use his behavior as probable cause for a search.

They can't detain you until a K-9 unit shows up without probable cause either ... if the dog is there, might as well decline their request to search anyway. Game theory says you have nothing to gain by allowing a search but everything to gain by denying it (if you are guilty of something).

[DJ FC]

What you don't seem to understand, DD is that in many instances the cop will have cause to search anyway, he can just make it up. It's not hard. I've had vehicles searched for little to nothing. If you say no to a cop it will piss him off and make him suspicious. It's how small-town cops work. It's easier to let them do their search, find nothing, and get on with your day than to bring lots more cops in, get cuffed, and be taken downtown.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

What you don't seem to understand, DD is that in many instances the cop will have cause to search anyway, he can just make it up. It's not hard. I've had vehicles searched for little to nothing. If you say no to a cop it will piss him off and make him suspicious. It's how small-town cops work. It's easier to let them do their search, find nothing, and get on with your day than to bring lots more cops in, get cuffed, and be taken downtown.

Then you sue for your constitutional rights being violated and profit.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by DDTempest

Then you sue for your constitutional rights being violated and profit.

Profit?

For most people not spending the night in jail and being bailed is worth quite a lot. Let alone the fact that your reputation will be tarnished whether found guilty or not. Add to that the opportunity costs of lost time and inconvenience. What you and especially Blonde always forget is that most people don't have the time to fight the system. We have lives we need to live. Fighting the system is for suckers. Or better yet, lobbyists.

[angry pancake]

Eh, you profit from 1983 violations. Sure do. And they get cops fired all day everyday. If the cop is going to just make up probable cause, he needs to do it before he requests a consensual search. It really is a horse before the cart thing. Probable cause cannot be created from a refusal of a voluntary search. And folks in robes are sensitive to this.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

What you and especially Blonde always forget is that most people don't have the time to fight the system. We have lives we need to live. Fighting the system is for suckers. Or better yet, lobbyists.

Man, I've worked in the system and I can tell you 100% THAT'S where the suckers go. Even reasonable people in positions of authority become power hungry people with a serious lack of introspection and after enough time on the job they get a god complex. If you give a cop permission to search your vehicle and they find the smallest thing, or something you forgot about, or something your friend left in your car, that blame falls directly on you. Yes, sure maybe you don't have anything in your car -- but on the same note, fuck them! They don't have any reason to search it!

What you need to realize is that if the entire population takes your attitude we would be subjugated in less than a decade. Seriously, when you post stuff like this it really does show your true colors. Call me a sucker armchair activist all you want but if you don't get pissed off at cops and other people of authority violating your rights "just because" (in this and the TSA example WITHOUT probable cause in 99% of cases) then something is seriously wrong with your mindset. You do understand they're counting on you to not want to deal with the hassle to get the search, right?

The reason we have most of our progressive rights we enjoy in the first place is because brave people stood up against authority in court and good judges overrule bad cop/authority's decisions. If nobody fights bullshit, then the bullshit will just keep coming.

Now, I understand also that you can't fight the system all the time. You don't want to do anything that is going to land you in jail, even if it's illegally, if you're running late for work or can lose your job or have somewhere to be. But even if you're not picketing police stations and courthouses, you should still be getting upset and doing what you can to stop practices like this from taking place. Even if that means you might be late for some fancy dinner or night club.

[Saint DH]

I never said refusal to search generated probable cause. I said it was a huge reasonable suspicion. It will cause him to look harder for probable cause than what he otherwise might have.

[Saint DH]

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[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

I never said refusal to search generated probable cause. I said it was a huge reasonable suspicion. It will cause him to look harder for probable cause than what he otherwise might have.

He can't FIND probable cause AFTER asking to search ... if he wants to find it, he will have done so before hand thus negating the need to ask your permission. This is not a chicken / egg situation ... its a chicken / turkey situation.

[SittinOnDubsWGW]

You don't need probable cause for a search, you need reasonable suspicion. A declination of a search, is not reasonable suspicion. Get that through your fucking head DH. Of course, if you give consent to a search (Which i've only had one person EVER decline a search, even when they have contraband), i'm searching your car.

Checkpoints, all you need is mere suspicion and that can be only a hunch.

The aforementioned K-9 thing about animal scents is incorrect. Also, if you have an animal inside the vehicle, they'll have you take that animal out before the search. It will not affect their ability to alert to narcotics.

And if an officer has reasonable suspicion, then the wait on a k-9 unit is a "reasonable amount of time." So with most things in life, the correct answer is, "it depends."

EDIT: to throw on some caselaw: http://www.caselaw4cops.net/searchandseizure/k9.htm

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

US v. Mohr, 318 F.3d 613 (4th Cir, 2003)-Stephanie Mohr, a Prince George's County, Maryland police officer, assisted in the capture of possible burglars. Her assistance was requested by Sgt Bonn of the Takoma Park, Maryland Police Department. The burglars were caught on the roof of a business. They were contacted and ordered to climb down. They were surrounded by several officers. The suspects fully cooperated with the police and had their hands in the air. Ofc Anthony Delozier was with Ofc Mohr. He asked Sgt Bonn, "Sarge, can the dog get a bite?" He said, "yes". Mohr then released the dog to bite one of the suspects while he was standing with his hands in the air. The suspects made no movement to justify the attack. Mohr was tried and convicted in federal court for acting under the color of law to willfully deprive suspect Mendez of his right to be free from the use of unreasonable force. She was sentenced to 10 years in prison.

[Mr. Blonde]

dumb bitch

[angry pancake]

Been stopped and searched by boarder patrol numerous times going along I-10 in New Mexico when commuting between Las Cruces and Deming. Most of them were really ordinary guys just doing their job. I've presumed the times I got pulled over and searched were just random. It usually took 5-10 minutes for the whole thing to be over.

Nobody asked if I consented to a search. They just did it. IIRC I think the only thing I ever got asked was "are you a US citizen?" and where you headed to (or from). It really wasn't a big deal unless I was running late.

[Orgazmo]

Watching Through The Wormhole with Dave. It's hosted by Morgan Freeman. Dave is talking about Mr. Freeman and says, "He really...he really does such a great job. Samuel L. Jackson such a great actor."

!

[ninjaface]

I don't get high nearly enough. Probably 3 or 4 times per year. I'd prefer at least once every 2 months.

[Saint DH]

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[Ugly Bastard]

Ain't nothing wrong with some tomatoes in the evening IMO.

[Orgazmo]

Smallgatoes.

[DJ FC]

Had some tomatoes this evening. And I'm tellin you, this stuff was ketchup if you know what I mean.

[Ugly Bastard]

I woke up this morning to an idea for a website that I wrote down last night: hippiesonthefield.com (it's available). The site would just be a blog that posts videos of fans running onto the field in sporting events. Would be pretty easy to have Google email you all news articles phrases like "fan on the field" in them to tip you off to what games had an incident like that, Twitter could also be used in a similar fashion, then you'd just have to scour YouTube and find the video a few hours/days later.

Is this a dumb idea? Yes.
Would it make any money? No.
But would it maybe be able to generate some buzz/traffic? I think so. A small amount, anyway.

[Cocktooth]

I've got an idea. Why don't you update itsorangenotred.com instead of thinking of other sites?!?!

[Ugly Bastard]

My poker blog is essentially dead. Between Black Friday and the evolution of Twitter, poker blogs are now archaic. That said, I'll still update it occasionally for posterity's sake (as well as for the sake of keeping it quasi-active so I can sell links on it).

[Cocktooth]

If you need to do a story on me, now is the time to do it. I'm about to hit my stride in the Cornhole world. Cornhole will take over as the sport for fat guys within the next decade.

[DJ FC]

Sorry, Cocktooth, but in our lifetime Golf will always be the sport for fatguys over cornhole.

[Cocktooth]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

Sorry, Cocktooth, but in our lifetime Golf will always be the sport for fatguys over cornhole.

DJ FC, you are educated in alot of things, but fat guy sports you aren't. What do most fat guys have in common? They are poor. Golf is a very expensive sport. What do you need for cornhole? 2 boxes and 8 bags. Don't forget the nectar of the fat guy, Busch Light. I have had to wait one time all year while playing golf on a course this year. The numbers of golfers are dwindling, but the number of people entering Cornhole tourney's is on the rise.