Another Thread about The Wire - Page 2 - Nubblies.net Forums

Beebs · 09-21-2011, 04:44 PM

I do agree that the cops in general are a bit one-dimensional, and those in the game are exaggeratedly interesting; Omar's knowledge of mythology? A bit much.

Also, while Omar is kind of badass, I can't help but think he is there for people who want to cheer for a bad guy, but can't commit to it. He has to have a code, or a good heart, or whatever; Boondock Saints are the same way, I see no appeal in them.

Plus he's a stick up man, the lowest of the fucking low in the drug game.

Orgazmo · 09-21-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DH

Black dudes can't play scientists

Is this trolling or do you really think things like these matter?

With regards to the dolphin movie: If the scientist in real life were 5'5" tall, would you be angry if they had an actor that is 6'2" play the part? What if he were a fat fuck, but they cast a thin actor?

The movie is based on a dolphin that gets a fake tail. The scientist who helps with the tail's creation really isn't integral to the main plot save for the fact that he exists. Now, if they cast a sea turtle as the dolphin, I could see being angry. Getting ruffled over an unimportant detail of a character in a film that's simply based on a real-life event (not a documentary, mind you) seems a little absurd.

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

racist white boy whining

The Wire is

the first drama in television history

to feature a predominantly black cast and you're sitting in white Muncie whining about how unfair it is. I'd like to firmly double-down on my claim that you're an idiot.

Beebs · 09-21-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

The Wire is

the first drama in television history

to feature a predominantly black cast and you're sitting in white Muncie whining about how unfair it is. I'd like to firmly double-down on my claim that you're an idiot.

:joke about Cops:

thekremlin · 09-21-2011, 05:09 PM

Guys, he's trolling.

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekremlin

Guys, he's trolling.

He would be wise to back up this claim whether or not it has been the case all along because right now he looks like a spoiled little racist bitch.

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 05:29 PM

DH, in this space was a fairly well-thought out and harsh post for why your racist rants and Mr. Tough Guy lines make you a highly unlikable piece of shit, but quite honestly it was too harsh and so I've removed it because I don't think it was really productive. Just know that when you do things like throw a fantastic artistic accomplishment under the bus primarily because the characters were predominantly black, or claim you've eaten at a Michelin-rated restaurant in multiple cities and continents, it makes you seem like a disingenuous piece of shit. I want to like you. Please stop making it so hard by insulting my intelligence with obvious lies and stances aimed at covering up your insecurities. It's okay to be real, dude. We'll still like you.

And I know that your obvious easy-way-out here is to tell me to pump the brakes or claim you were trolling, and you can take that line if it makes you feel better, but you know exactly what I'm talking about when I say please stop the disingenuous crap aimed at covering up the circumstances of your life, and I'm not talking solely about your racist contempt for The Wire. Nubblies used to be a collection of jackasses all throwing each other under the bus to try to survive, but has evolved to a community of fairly tight-knit adults who appreciate sharing aspects of their thoughts and lives with one another. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that I'm glad you're a part of that community. We're better for it. But it would be great if you could respect this and leave the immaturity, deception, and dishonesty for where appropriate.

DDTempest · 09-21-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

We'll still like you.

As long as you like The Wire*

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 06:01 PM

Nope. You can dislike The Wire and that's perfectly alright. Just know that if your reasoning is based on insecure racism, it makes you look like a spoiled, elitist bigot.

Saint DH · 09-21-2011, 08:07 PM

UB, in this space was a well-thought out post defending my position that The Wire is a shitty show with undertones of racism towards whites. I went on to explain that although I did not think this makes me a racist, bigoted, elitist prick, I can see how someone who is not looking for this type of thing could easily miss it and misconstrue my feelings, somehow, as racism.

But then I realized that I don't give a fuck if you like me, UB. In fact, after that post, I don't think I like you all that much. You're the one who sounds like an elitist prick when condemning someone as a piece of shit because they don't like your show. I've not once said a harsh word in your direction while I was explaining the many reasons why I don't like The Wire, yet I've counted a vast amount of insults from you with absolutely no provocation. I'm sorry that you buy into the whole white guilt thing, but I make no apologies for not doing so myself. And I'll be god damned if I'm going to praise a show that deliberately and exclusively casts white people for characters that are weak, insecure, unstable, and blatant villains. If you can see past that shit, good for you. You can praise the fucking show all you want, I don't give two shits what you think.

The fact is, 99% of the racist things that I say on here and in real life are said in jest. Perhaps I have a bit of a twisted sense of humor. Many of my best friends growing up were part of minority groups. I have much love and respect for them and their families. My beef isn't with ethnic groups, it's with the institutions that manipulate public opinion through subversive messages regarding race and racism.

I try to be a nice guy, both on the boards and in real life. I think many of you can attest to that fact. The whole Michelin-rated restaurant thing was an obvious lie, said for my own amusement, which would have died there if you did not feel the need to try and belittle me with your response to the obvious lie.

I'm not even going to address all the other bullshit you brought up, because I'm "real" and secure enough to not need to. Frankly, you said some harsh shit to me, that, if someone were to say to my face, I would spit in theirs.

DDTempest · 09-21-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

And I'll be god damned if I'm going to praise a show that deliberately and exclusively casts white people for characters that are weak, insecure, unstable, and blatant villains.

I'm going to put an asterix next to every character that matches your description of the white man being put down: weak, insecure, unstable, or blatant villains

*Det. James 'Jimmy' McNulty - drunk, cheater, reckless
*Dep. Comm. for Operations William A. Rawls - dick, backstabber, self serving
*Asst. State's Atty. Rhonda Pearlman - slut
Det. William 'Bunk' Moreland - drunk, lazy
*Lt. Cedric Daniels - affirmative action career advancement, thief
*Det. Shakima 'Kima' Greggs - drunk, lesbian, unable to be a parent
*Sgt. Ellis Carver - violent, thief
*Det. Thomas 'Herc' Hauk - violent, thief
Det. Lester Freamon - pretty alright guy
*Bubbles - crackhead, thief
*Omar Little - thief, murderer
*Det. Roland 'Prez' Pryzbylewski - nepotism job advancement, fuckup, good teacher
*Commissioner Ervin H. Burrell - fuckup, self serving, corrupt
Det. Leander Sydnor - fill in character
*Sgt. Jay Landsman - token fat police sgt.
*Preston 'Bodie' Broadus - drug dealer, murderer
*Avon Barksdale - drug dealer, murderer, reckless
*Russell 'Stringer' Bell - drug dealer, murderer, business man
Councilman Thomas 'Tommy' Carcetti - politician, betrays friend
*Marlo Stanfield - drug dealer, murderer
*Chris Partlow - drug dealer, murderer
Howard 'Bunny' Colvin - breaks rules to create results, mentors the one kid
*Dennis 'Cutty' Wise - drug dealer, murderer, turning life around
*Slim Charles - drug dealer, murderer
*Maurice 'Maury' Levy - stereotypical jew lawyer
*Malik 'Poot' Carr - drug dealer, murderer
*State Sen. R. Clayton 'Clay' Davis - corrupt official
*Off. Michael Santangelo - fill in character
*Felicia 'Snoop' Pearson - drug dealer, murderer, plays herself more or less

DID YOU NOTICE NEARLY THE ENTIRE CAST OF THE SERIES IS EITHER WEAK, INSECURE, UNSTABLE, OR A BLATANT VILLAIN?

Saint DH · 09-21-2011, 08:51 PM

I'll give you cocksuckers the benefit of a doubt. I'll continue to watch the show until the end with an open heart and an open mind. I will give it my very best fucking effort to love and cherish the show as much as you all do. I will try to put my theories of reverse racism aside and clean the slate with this show. I will do all of this because of my respect for you niggers, which is why I even started the show to begin with.

Mr. Blonde · 09-21-2011, 08:57 PM

Gentlemen,

Senor Chang - Gay - YouTube

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 09:14 PM

Nice strawman argument, DH. I'm not condemning you for not liking The Wire. That would obviously be absurd. I'm just telling you that I think you're an insecure little prick who throws minority groups and people less privileged as yourself under the bus because you were raised that way and have never taken a chance at questioning those beliefs. That's sad. As for your cop-out that most of the racist stuff you say is in "jest", that does seem to be true sometimes, but your criticisms of The Wire based on racial bias (which DDT nicely demonstrated) were not in jest. Don't be such a coward and own up to your opinions if you want us to take your Big Man on Campus routine seriously.

Saint DH · 09-21-2011, 09:23 PM

Oh I see. Now I'm an insecure racist prick because my parents are and that's how they raised me.

Fuck yourself in your self-righteous asshole.

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 09:27 PM

Again, strawman. "Raised that way" does not speak narrowly to your parents but rather the culture that you grew up in (the same one as me). You think Muncie, Indiana is a nice town. Go do something with your life and see a few things, then come back and talk about how unfair it is that black people are the primary focus of one TV drama.

Ugly Bastard · 09-21-2011, 10:39 PM

DH, I'd like if we could put this issue to rest. I feel bad for how inflamed I became after reading your post that mostly criticized The Wire for its focus on inner-city blacks and I'd like to apologize for that. I think one of the achievements of the show is giving a human face to the inner-city black criminal story. It's easy to shit all over black youths when you've enjoyed the upbringing that most of us have, but many of them have not been as lucky. Many have been forced into selling drugs at a young age and a gang-banging lifestyle by the pressures from their families and/or culture. An achievement of The Wire is helping people learn to see these troubled youths through eyes of compassion and understanding for their broader circumstances and take an attitude that hopes for the rehabilitation of that culture, not one that seeks to vilify it.

I am sorry that I did not better handle the emotions I felt from reading your, what I believe to be, ignorant critique of The Wire. My response to you was counterproductive and served nothing other than a temporary release of the anger I felt. My current perception of you, whether fair or not, is one of basically a college kid (even though I know you are no longer taking classes) still being supported by his parents. In this way, you are unique from everyone else on this board. I think this leads me to having less patience with regards to taking your beliefs and opinions seriously. I find myself rooting for you to break out of your shell and find success and happiness as a self-sufficient adult and it's frustrating when you make ignorant remarks coming from a place of a relative lack of real world experience. I'm sorry if sometimes I allow the potential I see in you to lead me to make counterproductive, harsh remarks. I hold myself and others to somewhat brutally high standards. It's something I've been questioning lately. I'm trying to work on seeing the more human side of myself and others and accepting them as they are. It's sometimes just hard to strike a balance between striving for self-improvement, and the goal-actualization of friends and others I care about, without pushing things too far.

Your critique of The Wire wouldn't have bothered me if I didn't think you can be better than that. It's good to have you around and, again, I apologize for the out-of-line personal attacks on your character.

Beebs · 09-21-2011, 11:11 PM

Thing is; there is a bit of a point in what DH is saying, but I don't think you need to take it in the context of it just being one show. Those in the drug game, mostly black, tend to be shaped as greek heroes, their problems arise because of the circumstances of the world around them, but they are an inherently good force being affected by a negative force. The "man", mostly white, tends to be in the mold of greek tragedies, they have inherent flaws that they can never fully escape; they will always end up being wrong because they are inherently incapable of ever being a good force. A counter-example would be Omar, he will never do anything but get killed, it was his destiny, he is a killer, it defines him, and it will bring about his downfall. You could also say that Omar kind of straddles the line between "the game" and "the man" on the show.

Take from that what you will, as there are obviously examples of other shows doing the opposite, or whatever you want to bring up, but there is certainly a discussion that could be had on the theme.

DDTempest · 09-21-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebs

Thing is; there is a bit of a point in what DH is saying, but I don't think you need to take it in the context of it just being one show. Those in the drug game, mostly black, tend to be shaped as greek heroes, their problems arise because of the circumstances of the world around them, but they are an inherently good force being affected by a negative force. The "man", mostly white, tends to be in the mold of greek tragedies, they have inherent flaws that they can never fully escape; they will always end up being wrong because they are inherently incapable of ever being a good force. A counter-example would be Omar, he will never do anything but get killed, it was his destiny, he is a killer, it defines him, and it will bring about his downfall. You could also say that Omar kind of straddles the line between "the game" and "the man" on the show.

Take from that what you will, as there are obviously examples of other shows doing the opposite, or whatever you want to bring up, but there is certainly a discussion that could be had on the theme.

The thing is: its story telling ... everyone is a Greek hero. The reality is that the show has to be something people invest in ... show any series (ever) that lasted for more than one season based on complete pieces of shit? You can't have "bad" characters without giving them some redeeming qualities with the expectation anyone would invest their time or emotion into those characters.

We just can't as a society watch evil for evil's sake for very long periods of time.

Beebs · 09-22-2011, 11:07 AM

I get that it's storytelling, I don't really have a problem with it.

Just pointing out that the predominately white side "the man" is flawed because they have inherently flawed personalities, like the lead in a greek tragedy. While the predominately black side "the game" is flawed because of the world around them, like a greek hero, not because of some inherent character flaw.

Omar and the black cops would obviously be counter points.

DDTempest · 09-22-2011, 12:28 PM

Isn't ignorance a character flaw?

f3lix · 09-22-2011, 06:23 PM

You can prove a show is great based on this thread alone.

Beebs · 09-22-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDTempest

Isn't ignorance a character flaw?

Yes, but it doesn't really define the characters. I've sort of lost the point by throwing my limited knowledge of greek theater, which was that amongst DH's post there was a thread of a point.

Saint DH · 09-22-2011, 11:01 PM

Did ya'll cats see Omar on Community tonight? I'll admit that that was kinda cool.

Mr. Blonde · 09-23-2011, 12:19 AM

Pretty gay Hulu makes you wait 30 days to see new episodes. Was it the season premier?

09-21-2011, 05:29 PM	#32 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	DH, in this space was a fairly well-thought out and harsh post for why your racist rants and Mr. Tough Guy lines make you a highly unlikable piece of shit, but quite honestly it was too harsh and so I've removed it because I don't think it was really productive. Just know that when you do things like throw a fantastic artistic accomplishment under the bus primarily because the characters were predominantly black, or claim you've eaten at a Michelin-rated restaurant in multiple cities and continents, it makes you seem like a disingenuous piece of shit. I want to like you. Please stop making it so hard by insulting my intelligence with obvious lies and stances aimed at covering up your insecurities. It's okay to be real, dude. We'll still like you. And I know that your obvious easy-way-out here is to tell me to pump the brakes or claim you were trolling, and you can take that line if it makes you feel better, but you know exactly what I'm talking about when I say please stop the disingenuous crap aimed at covering up the circumstances of your life, and I'm not talking solely about your racist contempt for The Wire. Nubblies used to be a collection of jackasses all throwing each other under the bus to try to survive, but has evolved to a community of fairly tight-knit adults who appreciate sharing aspects of their thoughts and lives with one another. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that I'm glad you're a part of that community. We're better for it. But it would be great if you could respect this and leave the immaturity, deception, and dishonesty for where appropriate.
	Last edited by Ugly Bastard; 09-21-2011 at 05:59 PM.

09-21-2011, 09:14 PM	#39 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Nice strawman argument, DH. I'm not condemning you for not liking The Wire. That would obviously be absurd. I'm just telling you that I think you're an insecure little prick who throws minority groups and people less privileged as yourself under the bus because you were raised that way and have never taken a chance at questioning those beliefs. That's sad. As for your cop-out that most of the racist stuff you say is in "jest", that does seem to be true sometimes, but your criticisms of The Wire based on racial bias (which DDT nicely demonstrated) were not in jest. Don't be such a coward and own up to your opinions if you want us to take your Big Man on Campus routine seriously.
	Last edited by Ugly Bastard; 09-21-2011 at 09:21 PM.

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09-21-2011, 04:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	I do agree that the cops in general are a bit one-dimensional, and those in the game are exaggeratedly interesting; Omar's knowledge of mythology? A bit much. Also, while Omar is kind of badass, I can't help but think he is there for people who want to cheer for a bad guy, but can't commit to it. He has to have a code, or a good heart, or whatever; Boondock Saints are the same way, I see no appeal in them. Plus he's a stick up man, the lowest of the fucking low in the drug game.

09-21-2011, 05:09 PM	#30 (permalink)
thekremlin Don't call me Shirley Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: London Posts: 3,271 Internets: 220249	Guys, he's trolling.

09-21-2011, 06:01 PM	#34 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Nope. You can dislike The Wire and that's perfectly alright. Just know that if your reasoning is based on insecure racism, it makes you look like a spoiled, elitist bigot.

09-21-2011, 08:07 PM	#35 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,148 Internets: 284753	UB, in this space was a well-thought out post defending my position that The Wire is a shitty show with undertones of racism towards whites. I went on to explain that although I did not think this makes me a racist, bigoted, elitist prick, I can see how someone who is not looking for this type of thing could easily miss it and misconstrue my feelings, somehow, as racism. But then I realized that I don't give a fuck if you like me, UB. In fact, after that post, I don't think I like you all that much. You're the one who sounds like an elitist prick when condemning someone as a piece of shit because they don't like your show. I've not once said a harsh word in your direction while I was explaining the many reasons why I don't like The Wire, yet I've counted a vast amount of insults from you with absolutely no provocation. I'm sorry that you buy into the whole white guilt thing, but I make no apologies for not doing so myself. And I'll be god damned if I'm going to praise a show that deliberately and exclusively casts white people for characters that are weak, insecure, unstable, and blatant villains. If you can see past that shit, good for you. You can praise the fucking show all you want, I don't give two shits what you think. The fact is, 99% of the racist things that I say on here and in real life are said in jest. Perhaps I have a bit of a twisted sense of humor. Many of my best friends growing up were part of minority groups. I have much love and respect for them and their families. My beef isn't with ethnic groups, it's with the institutions that manipulate public opinion through subversive messages regarding race and racism. I try to be a nice guy, both on the boards and in real life. I think many of you can attest to that fact. The whole Michelin-rated restaurant thing was an obvious lie, said for my own amusement, which would have died there if you did not feel the need to try and belittle me with your response to the obvious lie. I'm not even going to address all the other bullshit you brought up, because I'm "real" and secure enough to not need to. Frankly, you said some harsh shit to me, that, if someone were to say to my face, I would spit in theirs.

09-21-2011, 08:51 PM	#37 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,148 Internets: 284753	I'll give you cocksuckers the benefit of a doubt. I'll continue to watch the show until the end with an open heart and an open mind. I will give it my very best fucking effort to love and cherish the show as much as you all do. I will try to put my theories of reverse racism aside and clean the slate with this show. I will do all of this because of my respect for you niggers, which is why I even started the show to begin with.

09-21-2011, 09:23 PM	#40 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,148 Internets: 284753	Oh I see. Now I'm an insecure racist prick because my parents are and that's how they raised me. Fuck yourself in your self-righteous asshole.

09-21-2011, 09:27 PM	#41 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Again, strawman. "Raised that way" does not speak narrowly to your parents but rather the culture that you grew up in (the same one as me). You think Muncie, Indiana is a nice town. Go do something with your life and see a few things, then come back and talk about how unfair it is that black people are the primary focus of one TV drama.

09-21-2011, 10:39 PM	#42 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	DH, I'd like if we could put this issue to rest. I feel bad for how inflamed I became after reading your post that mostly criticized The Wire for its focus on inner-city blacks and I'd like to apologize for that. I think one of the achievements of the show is giving a human face to the inner-city black criminal story. It's easy to shit all over black youths when you've enjoyed the upbringing that most of us have, but many of them have not been as lucky. Many have been forced into selling drugs at a young age and a gang-banging lifestyle by the pressures from their families and/or culture. An achievement of The Wire is helping people learn to see these troubled youths through eyes of compassion and understanding for their broader circumstances and take an attitude that hopes for the rehabilitation of that culture, not one that seeks to vilify it. I am sorry that I did not better handle the emotions I felt from reading your, what I believe to be, ignorant critique of The Wire. My response to you was counterproductive and served nothing other than a temporary release of the anger I felt. My current perception of you, whether fair or not, is one of basically a college kid (even though I know you are no longer taking classes) still being supported by his parents. In this way, you are unique from everyone else on this board. I think this leads me to having less patience with regards to taking your beliefs and opinions seriously. I find myself rooting for you to break out of your shell and find success and happiness as a self-sufficient adult and it's frustrating when you make ignorant remarks coming from a place of a relative lack of real world experience. I'm sorry if sometimes I allow the potential I see in you to lead me to make counterproductive, harsh remarks. I hold myself and others to somewhat brutally high standards. It's something I've been questioning lately. I'm trying to work on seeing the more human side of myself and others and accepting them as they are. It's sometimes just hard to strike a balance between striving for self-improvement, and the goal-actualization of friends and others I care about, without pushing things too far. Your critique of The Wire wouldn't have bothered me if I didn't think you can be better than that. It's good to have you around and, again, I apologize for the out-of-line personal attacks on your character.

09-21-2011, 11:11 PM	#43 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	Thing is; there is a bit of a point in what DH is saying, but I don't think you need to take it in the context of it just being one show. Those in the drug game, mostly black, tend to be shaped as greek heroes, their problems arise because of the circumstances of the world around them, but they are an inherently good force being affected by a negative force. The "man", mostly white, tends to be in the mold of greek tragedies, they have inherent flaws that they can never fully escape; they will always end up being wrong because they are inherently incapable of ever being a good force. A counter-example would be Omar, he will never do anything but get killed, it was his destiny, he is a killer, it defines him, and it will bring about his downfall. You could also say that Omar kind of straddles the line between "the game" and "the man" on the show. Take from that what you will, as there are obviously examples of other shows doing the opposite, or whatever you want to bring up, but there is certainly a discussion that could be had on the theme.

09-22-2011, 11:07 AM	#45 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	I get that it's storytelling, I don't really have a problem with it. Just pointing out that the predominately white side "the man" is flawed because they have inherently flawed personalities, like the lead in a greek tragedy. While the predominately black side "the game" is flawed because of the world around them, like a greek hero, not because of some inherent character flaw. Omar and the black cops would obviously be counter points.

09-22-2011, 06:23 PM	#47 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	You can prove a show is great based on this thread alone.

09-22-2011, 11:01 PM	#49 (permalink)
Saint DH Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,148 Internets: 284753	Did ya'll cats see Omar on Community tonight? I'll admit that that was kinda cool.

09-23-2011, 12:19 AM	#50 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	Pretty gay Hulu makes you wait 30 days to see new episodes. Was it the season premier?