Amendment - Page 5 - Nubblies.net Forums

Fruitacious B · 02-28-2004, 06:47 AM

Super Nintendo-

It doesn't matter if a shitload of people bust out their bibles for this. The second that becomes an argument, it's inconstitutional, plain and simple. That is, unless of course you can present a religous argument that can go without offending a single religion.....you can't do that, so don't try. Religion absolutely cannot be an excuse to ammend the constitution on a topic like gay marriage, it just can't. Therefore, even if what you said does in fact stand for a lot of people, you better hope it's a hell of a lot of people. Or at least a high enough percentage of people to possibly change the first amendment before putting in this proposed new amendment. After you do that, it should not be a problem to justifiably apply the amendment.

[ February 28, 2004, 03:50 AM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StabMaster Arson:
I have a hard time understanding why people are so against the idea of gay people being able to marry... what the fuck does it matter to you?

My old boss has been in a monogamous relationship with another man for over seven years, wears a ring, and shares everything with his husband. Why the fuck should it be anybody else's business? If they are happy and not hurting anyone else, keep the fuck out of it.

The whole 'marrying animals' argument holds no water... so why are you really scared to let people marry within their sex?

It matters to me, because it requires explanation to my future children.

Marrying animals holds the same water as a nalgene unbreakable water container. People who feel what they are doing are right--believe so. I have nothing against that.

However, I'm against their ideologies when it effects the upbrining of someone who is trying to make sense of it all--and begins to think about the different possibilities. They are there--because it has happened.

Almost nothing is wrong--because someone has done it. Does that make it 'right'? I don't think so. Niether does society. Values need to be in place to promote what is 'right' which the culture says is.

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StabMaster Arson:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AcTivE:
Perspective, and society. Values of a society will effect what will happen on an impressionable youth.

look at our fucking society... if two people who love each other being married is anywhere near the top of that list, you've got some thinking to do.[/quote]You need to explain the second part. I don't understand it. Yes, people have sex outside of marriage--is that it? Marriage is:

dictionary.com

a) The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.

When the definition is redefined--so is the explanation to anyone who doesn't know what it is. With that comes different interpretations, which leads to....

I have no idea, the world is fucked up. It could go anywhere.

Corruption. That's what I believe it is.

StabMaster Arson · 02-28-2004, 06:52 AM

gay people are here, plain and simple. you're gonna have to talk to your kids about a lot worse than why the guy down the street lives with another man.

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fruitacious B:
Super Nintendo-

It doesn't matter if a shitload of people bust out their bibles for this. The second that becomes an argument, it's inconstitutional, plain and simple. That is, unless of course you can present a religous argument that can go without offending a single religion.....you can't do that, so don't try. Religion absolutely cannot be an excuse to ammend the constitution on a topic like gay marriage, it just can't. Therefore, even if what you said does in fact stand for a lot of people, you better hope it's a hell of a lot of people. Or at least a high enough percentage of people to possibly change the first amendment before putting in this proposed new amendment. After you do that, it should not be a problem to justifiably apply the amendment.

I would agree that religion can not be the arugment. It's too broad, and too many beliefs.

Fruitacious B · 02-28-2004, 06:55 AM

Who says your kids aren't going to hear of gay couples anyway? They'll (the homosexuals) proclaim themselves to be married anyway. Your kid will go to school, and will hear of it from other kids. You're going to have to explain homosexuality to them anyway. Why not at least let the homosexuals get officially married? It's not going to change the fact that you'll have to explain it to your kids anyway.

Stab just said pretty much the same thing so mine is almost superfluous

[ February 28, 2004, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StabMaster Arson:
gay people are here, plain and simple. you're gonna have to talk to your kids about a lot worse than why the guy down the street lives with another man.

They are not going to question that, until they have an erection when a girl touches their leg, and they wonder why guys are 'living' with other gus..

Everyone is going to find out eventually, but it doesn't need to be apart of their upbringing. Why? Because it is america. Neither does coke. Give a kid coke when he is six--result, Libya.

People need to be able to form their own opinion, and not forced into it.

Yes--society does that (forces you to the values you deem important now). But would you want to live the lives of others are experiencing in 'undeveloped' countries. I'd think not. Is that because of the own values you have now? Yes it is.

Are they the best? I don't know, but thats the way it is.

Again, corruption, defined by a society. My society tells me I need to protect the impressionable until they can make a reasonable decision on their own (which again, is apart of societ, I would agree...).

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fruitacious B:
Who says your kids aren't going to hear of gay couples anyway? They'll (the homosexuals) proclaim themselves to be married anyway. Your kid will go to school, and will hear of it from other kids. You're going to have to explain homosexuality to them anyway. Why not at least let the homosexuals get officially married? It's not going to change the fact that you'll have to explain it to your kids anyway.

Stab just said pretty much the same thing so mine is almost superfluous

Marriage would define the choice as acceptable. Disagree? Please explain...

Saying that it is not acceptable at least places the idea in their heads that it is out of bounds of what the 'normal' person should desire.

02-28-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AcTivE:
Marriage would define the choice as acceptable. Disagree? Please explain...

Saying that it is not acceptable at least places the idea in their heads that it is out of bounds of what the 'normal' person should desire.

It's not the governments responsibility to tell society what is within the bounds of what the
'normal' person should desire. Only what is legal, what is illegal.

[ February 28, 2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: DJ FC ]

Percipere'Chan · 02-28-2004, 03:07 PM

You know, I had a really solid powerful paragraph that I was about to lay down for the fray on the possible (though extremely unlikely) amendment that is the topic for this thread.

It's been a couple pages since I've posted, so I started reading to hear what other pompous ego massages, and brilliantly assembled perspectives had been posted since I'd been away.

In my pursuit of gathering more material, I realized that... There wasn't any. This isn't a good argument anymore. It's one man's crusade to be right. Sorry AcTivE, but there's no Love or Friendship in your posts here. There's not even any Humor. SuperNintendo has thrown in a couple good points that I'd like to talk about, but I really don't feel like doing that much scrolling to get to what he had to say.

I like to argue because I want to understand my beliefs better, and hopefully come to understanding of the beliefs of the people I disagree with. Whether or not I end up agreeing with them is superflouous. I can still think somebody is wrong and argue passionately for my ideals. But when the day is done, I aim to find respect for my adversary at least in having had a Good Argument.

I don't understand your conclusions. Your evidence or support is brought in with such speed from so many directions that the result leaves me light-headed and with a carnival atmosphere, wondering where my wallet is.

Originally, I admired your posts for their tenacity at getting into the fray. Now I see it's not motivated By enthusiasm but From fear.

Don't feel the need to defend yourself in a follow up post regarding this specifcally. I'm not attacking, just thought I'd put this out there in case it could do some good. ...And. I probably won't be reading much of what you write anymore anyway.

[Damnit. I'm fucking disappointed. I still wanted to Argue.]

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ FC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AcTivE:
Marriage would define the choice as acceptable. Disagree? Please explain...

Saying that it is not acceptable at least places the idea in their heads that it is out of bounds of what the 'normal' person should desire.

It's not the governments responsibility to tell society what is within the bounds of what the
'normal' person should desire. Only what is legal, what is illegal.[/quote]No it isn't, and I didn't say that it was. What is generally accepted, and what is desired is not the same thing. That's why there is a proposal to make an amendment--saying that it is illegal.

Percip:

I don't give a fuck. There is absolutely no love or Friendship in my posts, mainly because I am not gay.

[ February 28, 2004, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: AcTivE ]

Jake · 02-28-2004, 07:38 PM

Active I truely feel sorry for you... Your lashing out at gay marriage obviously comes from some deep insecurity or fear... But the fact is that gay marriage is coming whether you like it or not. Maybe not today or tommorow, but it will come, and you and your children will be forced to deal with it, like it or not. Im confident that you as a parent will be more than succsessful at beating into your child that gays are bad, and will not have to worry about your child being gay...atleast not openly.....you sadly remind me of the radical whites during the black civil rights movement that taught their white children to stay away from their neighbor black children. Anyways, in conclusion, gay marriage will pass, and then active, and everyone else will see that the "floodgates" arent goin to open and everyone will not start to marry their cats and dogs...lol

Mr. Blonde · 02-28-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jake:
Active I truely feel sorry for you... Your lashing out at gay marriage obviously comes from some deep insecurity or fear...

=

The last resort for an argument for homosexuals eveywhere, when they don't have any other good defenses.

fancymeghan · 02-28-2004, 08:21 PM

....and why can't we live in a society that is accepting? why can't people just let other people live how they want to.?

by trying to pass this law, it shows how ignorant our president is.

by saying that gay marriages are "wrong," he is questioning the religious/moral rights of united states citizens. you can't do that as president of the free world....

freedom

from dictionary.com)
1.Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
......banning gay marriage = oppression.

2. "The capacity to exercise choice; free will."
......you can't determine through christianity what is right...you can't tell people what is right and what is wrong. a person could not exercise free choice if they choose to marry thier partner if it's made illegal.

basically, this is just putting a restraint on our culture. a person can speak their mind on an issue, but when it gets to the point where the government is making laws on whether it is right or wrong, we'll all end up living in hell.

[ February 28, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: fancymeghan ]

fancymeghan · 02-28-2004, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Blonde:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jake:
Active I truely feel sorry for you... Your lashing out at gay marriage obviously comes from some deep insecurity or fear...

=

The last resort for an argument for homosexuals eveywhere, when they don't have any other good defenses.[/quote]no. based on psychological terms, it's correct.

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jake:
Active I truely feel sorry for you... Your lashing out at gay marriage obviously comes from some deep insecurity or fear... But the fact is that gay marriage is coming whether you like it or not. Maybe not today or tommorow, but it will come, and you and your children will be forced to deal with it, like it or not. Im confident that you as a parent will be more than succsessful at beating into your child that gays are bad, and will not have to worry about your child being gay...atleast not openly.....you sadly remind me of the radical whites during the black civil rights movement that taught their white children to stay away from their neighbor black children. Anyways, in conclusion, gay marriage will pass, and then active, and everyone else will see that the "floodgates" arent goin to open and everyone will not start to marry their cats and dogs...lol

I feel sorry for you. You will never be able to have any children. Maybe that is why the argument doesn't seem to hit 'home' with you.

I am very insecure about the idea of a man have sex with another man. It makes me sick. So yea, you are right.

Mr. Blonde is right. It's not a supporting argument. I can't argue against what you have said--because there is nothing else to say about it.

[ February 28, 2004, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: AcTivE ]

Jake · 02-28-2004, 10:21 PM

Active, I feel sorry for your children......

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 10:24 PM

Don't have any Jake, I'm 19.

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 10:26 PM

I plan on trying to keep everything my future kids see, completely censored. I don't want their heads to be fucked up by ideas--until they are of age to comprehend it.

Any good parent would try to do the same thing.

Mr. Blonde · 02-28-2004, 10:32 PM

double post

[ February 28, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]

Mr. Blonde · 02-28-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fancymeghan:
no. based on psychological terms, it's correct.

Fancy, you're telling me that everybody on the entire planet who has a problem or disagreement with homosexuals has deep rooted psychological problems? Just because someone like the idea of homosexuality doesnt mean that they are the ones who are fucked up in the head.

Let me reiterate, I do not have a problem with homosexuality, however i dont necessarily agree with it. All i'm saying is that Jakes former comment was a very generalized one.

[ February 28, 2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fancymeghan:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mr. Blonde:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jake:
Active I truely feel sorry for you... Your lashing out at gay marriage obviously comes from some deep insecurity or fear...

=

The last resort for an argument for homosexuals eveywhere, when they don't have any other good defenses.[/quote]no. based on psychological terms, it's correct.[/quote]Would someone have psychological problems if they had problems with incest?

Mr. Blonde · 02-28-2004, 10:44 PM

Would someone have psychological problems if they didnt like the color blue? I really hope you guys are getting the point

AcTivE · 02-28-2004, 10:49 PM

Would someone have psychological problems if they were gay?

VOL · 02-28-2004, 10:56 PM

Maybe.

Does Jake have psychological problems because he is? There are no psychological problems with straights or gays, I think it's just a lifestyle option.

02-28-2004, 06:47 AM	#101 (permalink)
Fruitacious B Bokononist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,595 Internets: 11801	Super Nintendo- It doesn't matter if a shitload of people bust out their bibles for this. The second that becomes an argument, it's inconstitutional, plain and simple. That is, unless of course you can present a religous argument that can go without offending a single religion.....you can't do that, so don't try. Religion absolutely cannot be an excuse to ammend the constitution on a topic like gay marriage, it just can't. Therefore, even if what you said does in fact stand for a lot of people, you better hope it's a hell of a lot of people. Or at least a high enough percentage of people to possibly change the first amendment before putting in this proposed new amendment. After you do that, it should not be a problem to justifiably apply the amendment. [ February 28, 2004, 03:50 AM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]
	"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." \|vonnegut

02-28-2004, 06:52 AM	#104 (permalink)
StabMaster Arson Roscoe P. Coldchain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Stabbin Cabin Posts: 2,759 Internets: 1425	gay people are here, plain and simple. you're gonna have to talk to your kids about a lot worse than why the guy down the street lives with another man.
	LEGALIZE CRIME!

02-28-2004, 06:55 AM	#106 (permalink)
Fruitacious B Bokononist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,595 Internets: 11801	Who says your kids aren't going to hear of gay couples anyway? They'll (the homosexuals) proclaim themselves to be married anyway. Your kid will go to school, and will hear of it from other kids. You're going to have to explain homosexuality to them anyway. Why not at least let the homosexuals get officially married? It's not going to change the fact that you'll have to explain it to your kids anyway. Stab just said pretty much the same thing so mine is almost superfluous [ February 28, 2004, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]
	"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." \|vonnegut

02-28-2004, 03:07 PM	#110 (permalink)
Percipere'Chan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: My Machine Posts: 460 Internets: -238	You know, I had a really solid powerful paragraph that I was about to lay down for the fray on the possible (though extremely unlikely) amendment that is the topic for this thread. It's been a couple pages since I've posted, so I started reading to hear what other pompous ego massages, and brilliantly assembled perspectives had been posted since I'd been away. In my pursuit of gathering more material, I realized that... There wasn't any. This isn't a good argument anymore. It's one man's crusade to be right. Sorry AcTivE, but there's no Love or Friendship in your posts here. There's not even any Humor. SuperNintendo has thrown in a couple good points that I'd like to talk about, but I really don't feel like doing that much scrolling to get to what he had to say. I like to argue because I want to understand my beliefs better, and hopefully come to understanding of the beliefs of the people I disagree with. Whether or not I end up agreeing with them is superflouous. I can still think somebody is wrong and argue passionately for my ideals. But when the day is done, I aim to find respect for my adversary at least in having had a Good Argument. I don't understand your conclusions. Your evidence or support is brought in with such speed from so many directions that the result leaves me light-headed and with a carnival atmosphere, wondering where my wallet is. Originally, I admired your posts for their tenacity at getting into the fray. Now I see it's not motivated By enthusiasm but From fear. Don't feel the need to defend yourself in a follow up post regarding this specifcally. I'm not attacking, just thought I'd put this out there in case it could do some good. ...And. I probably won't be reading much of what you write anymore anyway. [Damnit. I'm fucking disappointed. I still wanted to Argue.]
	Dead, death, grim on a pale horse, empty, hollow, inanimate, fataled, black curtained, annihilated.

02-28-2004, 08:21 PM	#114 (permalink)
fancymeghan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: indiana. Posts: 504 Internets: 306	....and why can't we live in a society that is accepting? why can't people just let other people live how they want to.? by trying to pass this law, it shows how ignorant our president is. by saying that gay marriages are "wrong," he is questioning the religious/moral rights of united states citizens. you can't do that as president of the free world.... freedomfrom dictionary.com) 1.Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression. ......banning gay marriage = oppression. 2. "The capacity to exercise choice; free will." ......you can't determine through christianity what is right...you can't tell people what is right and what is wrong. a person could not exercise free choice if they choose to marry thier partner if it's made illegal. basically, this is just putting a restraint on our culture. a person can speak their mind on an issue, but when it gets to the point where the government is making laws on whether it is right or wrong, we'll all end up living in hell. [ February 28, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: fancymeghan ]

02-28-2004, 07:38 PM	#112 (permalink)
Jake Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 148 Internets: 10	Active I truely feel sorry for you... Your lashing out at gay marriage obviously comes from some deep insecurity or fear... But the fact is that gay marriage is coming whether you like it or not. Maybe not today or tommorow, but it will come, and you and your children will be forced to deal with it, like it or not. Im confident that you as a parent will be more than succsessful at beating into your child that gays are bad, and will not have to worry about your child being gay...atleast not openly.....you sadly remind me of the radical whites during the black civil rights movement that taught their white children to stay away from their neighbor black children. Anyways, in conclusion, gay marriage will pass, and then active, and everyone else will see that the "floodgates" arent goin to open and everyone will not start to marry their cats and dogs...lol

02-28-2004, 10:21 PM	#117 (permalink)
Jake Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 148 Internets: 10	Active, I feel sorry for your children......

02-28-2004, 10:24 PM	#118 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	Don't have any Jake, I'm 19.
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

02-28-2004, 10:26 PM	#119 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	I plan on trying to keep everything my future kids see, completely censored. I don't want their heads to be fucked up by ideas--until they are of age to comprehend it. Any good parent would try to do the same thing.
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

02-28-2004, 10:32 PM	#120 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	double post [ February 28, 2004, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

02-28-2004, 10:44 PM	#123 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	Would someone have psychological problems if they didnt like the color blue? I really hope you guys are getting the point
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

02-28-2004, 10:49 PM	#124 (permalink)
AcTivE 1 thing leads to another. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012 Internets: -2654	Would someone have psychological problems if they were gay?
	___________________ 3:o) horned creatures...wat wat ___________________

02-28-2004, 10:56 PM	#125 (permalink)
VOL Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: there Posts: 2,305 Internets: -205	Maybe. Does Jake have psychological problems because he is? There are no psychological problems with straights or gays, I think it's just a lifestyle option.
	~ductor ab grandis divinitus~ CDXXVII