Ron Paul 2008 - Page 12 - Nubblies.net Forums

DJ FC · 09-25-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

I guess the moral of the story is: don't let the word "debt" be a red flag in you mind that is synonymous with "bad". Without debt (which is what Ron Paul wants the world to operate like under the gold standard), we'd basically just be back to having to barter our way through life. The world would be much less efficient and far less of an enjoyable place to live.

That's why people in finance often refer to debt as "leverage." The two are the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

In no way to I believe this country is "guaranteed" to go into a recession. The media and gov't blew this WAY out of proportion in order to get something passed. There is no way in hell our country and economy could just die in 2 weeks like it has been presented. People were pulling out of the market because it was the right thing to do. Why companies must be saved for over-extending themselves is repulsive in my eyes. I know we aren't in the 1930's but I still believe in Ron Paulitics and be damned sure that every problem we've had in the last 20 years was caused by something he warned about. Maybe just listen to him... one time?

F3lix, UB didn't want to say it but I will: you are an idiot.

First of all, a recession is usually just 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, which we will probably see. You say recession like it means death.

But the fact of the matter is that the economy and especially the financial markets are death! Nobody on Nubblies is more qualified (except maybe UMB) to talk about this than I, and I can tell you that the credit crisis is very real, people are going under just because people won't lend to them. People won't lend to each other because people are going under. Lots of value and jobs have been destroyed by this process. The US economy has been pumped up by easy money and "safe" real estate investments and now it's all going to shit. The only problem is it's going to shit on an exponentially increasing pace.

YES The world really did change the other day when Lehman Brothers, one of the top 5 investment banks in the world was allowed to file for bankrupsy. It was as if not only did the situation of the world of finance change, or the rules of the game change, but we weren't even playing the same sport anymore. A "too big to fail" bank had failed. Holy fuck. Anyone can fail. You can't trust any investment. This is the attitude of the last 2 weeks. And it's very real man. It's not the media or the politicians. They actually don't know how fucking out of whack things are.

I love Ron Paul. And I believe in what he stands for. Please support him without talking about things which you don't know about. You don't know how real the lack of credit and liquidity has been.

Repugnant Abomination · 09-25-2008, 04:10 PM

It seems like, based on what GWB is saying, that this whole thing is kind of a self perpetuating thing. Basically, people won't lend money because people are failing, and people are failing because people won't lend money. If that's the case, isn't it just a confidence issue? I'm waaaaaaaaay out of my element here, I've never had a business class in my life, so sorry if my questions are stupid.

Ugly Bastard · 09-25-2008, 04:59 PM

You don't need to take any classes to understand this stuff, Repug.

And your question isn't stupid.

Basically what happened was, the country, as a whole, was over leveraged. A domino effect happened. One firm went down, so everyone lost confidence which caused another firm to go down, and on and on and on like that. All the government is trying to do is serve as a giant buyer so everyone's confidence can be restored ("hey... someone is buying!!") This will lead to a market recovery and an increase in the value of the government's investment.

In no uncertain terms, this buyout is a good thing. The only people who oppose it are extremist nutjobs. On the far right, you've got Ron Paul saying, "zomg... the government should never intervene ever!!". And on the far left, you've got Bernie Sanders saying, "fuck these greedy capitalists... let's not bail them out... let's watch them burn." Both of those philosophies are very harmful for all Americans.

Mr. Blonde · 09-25-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Blonde and Co.,

The US Government isn't unlike any other business in that it's possible to carry debt and still be a sound business. Most people are used to viewing debt through the lens of their personal finances (ie: credit card debt, student loans, etc = all dreadful).

In business, debt can be a good thing. The US government gets their debt on the cheap, too. When people (or China) buys bonds, the government really isn't giving them a very good interest rate. In other words, there are plenty of better investments to make than loaning the government money via bonds. However, since people buy bonds, the government is getting into debt without it costing too much.

Put it this way, if you knew of something to invest in that you expected to have a 15-20% return, and someone was willing to loan you money at 3%... it would make sense to do it, right? So while, yes, you're "going into debt", you expect it to be a net positive in the long run.

I'm not saying the government gets that good of return on their ventures. Certainly, in the case of the Iraq war, they received a horribly negative return. But take this housing bailout... they could make a lot of money off of holding on to these undervalued mortgages and waiting for the market to regain its sanity.

I guess the moral of the story is: don't let the word "debt" be a red flag in you mind that is synonymous with "bad". Without debt (which is what Ron Paul wants the world to operate like under the gold standard), we'd basically just be back to having to barter our way through life. The world would be much less efficient and far less of an enjoyable place to live.

Thank you. And for the record I agree with you on the bailout. We really don't have much of a choice from what i've been hearing from people pretty educated on the topic, and the alternative really isn't that appealing to me, because if people really think they wouldn't be affected by NOT bailing them out, they are horribly wrong.

P.S. I've been reading that book so at least your p.o.v. makes a little more sense to me.

f3lix · 09-25-2008, 06:08 PM

Probably the best Ron Paul article I've ever read was sent to my email today.

Dear Friends:

The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.

We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.

Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I'd only be repeating what I've been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.

Still, at least a few observations are necessary.

The president assures us that his administration "is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets." Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?

We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.

Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or "wildcat capitalism" (as if we actually have a pure free market!).

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: "Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk."

Doesn't that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn't the federal government shown that the "many" who "believed they were guaranteed by the federal government" were in fact correct?

Then come the scare tactics. If we don't give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary "the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet." Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.

It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks' manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:

Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.

To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end... It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.

The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.

The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?

Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a "rescue plan"? I guess "bailout" wasn't sitting too well with the American people.

The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you're supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.

I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.

H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.

In liberty,

Ron Paul

DJ FC · 09-25-2008, 11:30 PM

Ron Paul is right on.

I disagree with one point thiough: Just as Warren Buffet investing in Goldman was a self fulfilling prophecy so too will be the govt bailout. When the govt buys these securities, the markets will rally and the govt stands to make a good buck doing so, actually helping the US taxpayer. So you could actually see this move as an investment.

I still think the dollar is going to shit and that a lot of the blame goes to those who kept interest rates too low; spent too much dough fighting wars and supporting social programs. But the bailout may still be a good idea.

Ugly Bastard · 09-29-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

If Ron Paul got his way on this bailout issue, it'd almost certainly guarantee Great Depression V2.0 for this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

UB, you're a fool if you believe this move is better for our country's future. This temporary solution is going to damn us all. I have a better idea... END THE FED!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Let's see... guaranteed recession/depression or at worst, little more national debt, but possibly an actual surplus for investing in horribly underpriced mortgages.

Yea... I'm the fool.

Pull your head out of your ass, Dave. There's a reason no one voted for Ron Paul during the primaries. He's an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f3lix

In no way to I believe this country is "guaranteed" to go into a recession. The media and gov't blew this WAY out of proportion.

f3lix · 09-29-2008, 10:52 PM

Apparently you didn't understand my quote of "UB, you're a fool if you believe this move is better for our country's future. This temporary solution is going to damn us all." It's a temp solution that interferes with a free market. Quit using your single sample size of people being stupid and selling off everything. Obviosly you don't buy into it, since you claimed you were buying up all kinds of stock. How'd that turn out for you? Same situation. Temporarily bad, should be a gold mine 6-12 months from now.

Ugly Bastard · 09-29-2008, 11:22 PM

I was buying up all kinds of stock before I realized that Congress has more dumb Ron Paul nutjobs than I knew of. The Republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in 5 weeks, and I can't say they don't deserve it. They shit all over the country on this one. Wait till it hits Main Street. The bottom is a long, long ways away unless these idiots (quickly) realize how much they fucked up and get something back on the table.

Yea things should be fine in 6-12 months when unemployment is at 15% and Comrade Obama, with the backing of a heavily Democratic congress, spikes the capital gains tax up to 30%. Things should be juuuust fine then.

f3lix · 12-07-2009, 05:05 PM

Oops...

Tea Party Tops GOP on Three-Way Generic Ballot - Rasmussen Reports

zebrazebrazebraSHAFT · 07-30-2010, 09:33 AM

listen to this batshit crazy nutjob talk about drugs:

YouTube

/s

f3lix · 07-30-2010, 02:35 PM

What was wrong with what he said?

Mr. Blonde · 07-30-2010, 02:47 PM

i first posted something criticizing f3lix, but i hadn't watched it yet. now that I watched it, i'm not sure what to think, mostly because i'm drunk.

In sum, I agree with what Ron Paul is saying, but holy shit that made no sense.

zebrazebrazebraSHAFT · 07-30-2010, 03:04 PM

/s = sarcasm

Orgazmo · 07-30-2010, 03:22 PM

Around these parts, we denote sarcasm (a level of 0 through 10) in a parentheses. For example:

What Ron Paul said was ridiculous! (10)

zebrazebrazebraSHAFT · 07-30-2010, 04:28 PM

good to know, thanks (0)

Orgazmo · 07-30-2010, 06:10 PM

Fuck you, you're not welcome (10)

Mr. Blonde · 03-17-2011, 10:27 PM

Ugly Bastard · 03-17-2011, 11:33 PM

Blonde were you forced to go to church a lot as a kid? You seem to have a lot of hatred for organized religion so I'm just curious what your specific childhood was like in relation to it.

Mr. Blonde · 03-17-2011, 11:44 PM

Baptized Catholic, Protestant church every Sunday until I was 18, did a lot of acolyting, in early teens went through Confirmation, was forced through peer pressure to 'accept Jesus into my heart' several times (even though I never felt anything), was heavily involved in Youth Group all through high school. Luckily was never molested.

thekremlin · 03-18-2011, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Unfortunately was never molested.

FTFY

09-25-2008, 04:59 PM	#278 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	You don't need to take any classes to understand this stuff, Repug. And your question isn't stupid. Basically what happened was, the country, as a whole, was over leveraged. A domino effect happened. One firm went down, so everyone lost confidence which caused another firm to go down, and on and on and on like that. All the government is trying to do is serve as a giant buyer so everyone's confidence can be restored ("hey... someone is buying!!") This will lead to a market recovery and an increase in the value of the government's investment. In no uncertain terms, this buyout is a good thing. The only people who oppose it are extremist nutjobs. On the far right, you've got Ron Paul saying, "zomg... the government should never intervene ever!!". And on the far left, you've got Bernie Sanders saying, "fuck these greedy capitalists... let's not bail them out... let's watch them burn." Both of those philosophies are very harmful for all Americans.
	Last edited by Ugly Bastard; 09-25-2008 at 05:04 PM.

09-25-2008, 11:30 PM	#281 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	Ron Paul is right on. I disagree with one point thiough: Just as Warren Buffet investing in Goldman was a self fulfilling prophecy so too will be the govt bailout. When the govt buys these securities, the markets will rally and the govt stands to make a good buck doing so, actually helping the US taxpayer. So you could actually see this move as an investment. I still think the dollar is going to shit and that a lot of the blame goes to those who kept interest rates too low; spent too much dough fighting wars and supporting social programs. But the bailout may still be a good idea.
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

07-30-2010, 02:47 PM	#288 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	i first posted something criticizing f3lix, but i hadn't watched it yet. now that I watched it, i'm not sure what to think, mostly because i'm drunk. In sum, I agree with what Ron Paul is saying, but holy shit that made no sense.
	Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing. ― Terence McKenna

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09-25-2008, 04:10 PM	#277 (permalink)
Repugnant Abomination Almost there... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,979 Internets: 164547	It seems like, based on what GWB is saying, that this whole thing is kind of a self perpetuating thing. Basically, people won't lend money because people are failing, and people are failing because people won't lend money. If that's the case, isn't it just a confidence issue? I'm waaaaaaaaay out of my element here, I've never had a business class in my life, so sorry if my questions are stupid.

09-25-2008, 06:08 PM	#280 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Probably the best Ron Paul article I've ever read was sent to my email today. Dear Friends: The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived. We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets. Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I'd only be repeating what I've been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades. Still, at least a few observations are necessary. The president assures us that his administration "is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets." Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned? We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed. Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or "wildcat capitalism" (as if we actually have a pure free market!). Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: "Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk." Doesn't that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn't the federal government shown that the "many" who "believed they were guaranteed by the federal government" were in fact correct? Then come the scare tactics. If we don't give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary "the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet." Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up. It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year. The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days. F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks' manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own: Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion. To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end... It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression. The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history. The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question? Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a "rescue plan"? I guess "bailout" wasn't sitting too well with the American people. The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you're supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them. I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn. H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have. In liberty, Ron Paul

09-29-2008, 10:52 PM	#283 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Apparently you didn't understand my quote of "UB, you're a fool if you believe this move is better for our country's future. This temporary solution is going to damn us all." It's a temp solution that interferes with a free market. Quit using your single sample size of people being stupid and selling off everything. Obviosly you don't buy into it, since you claimed you were buying up all kinds of stock. How'd that turn out for you? Same situation. Temporarily bad, should be a gold mine 6-12 months from now.

09-29-2008, 11:22 PM	#284 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	I was buying up all kinds of stock before I realized that Congress has more dumb Ron Paul nutjobs than I knew of. The Republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in 5 weeks, and I can't say they don't deserve it. They shit all over the country on this one. Wait till it hits Main Street. The bottom is a long, long ways away unless these idiots (quickly) realize how much they fucked up and get something back on the table. Yea things should be fine in 6-12 months when unemployment is at 15% and Comrade Obama, with the backing of a heavily Democratic congress, spikes the capital gains tax up to 30%. Things should be juuuust fine then.

12-07-2009, 05:05 PM	#285 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	Oops... Tea Party Tops GOP on Three-Way Generic Ballot - Rasmussen Reports

07-30-2010, 02:35 PM	#287 (permalink)
f3lix Gangnam Style Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DH's Massage Parlor Posts: 6,383 Internets: 213510	What was wrong with what he said?

07-30-2010, 03:04 PM	#289 (permalink)
zebrazebrazebraSHAFT The Government Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 98 Internets: 1037	/s = sarcasm

07-30-2010, 03:22 PM	#290 (permalink)
Orgazmo COME ON YOU YANKS Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 15,728 Internets: 311447	Around these parts, we denote sarcasm (a level of 0 through 10) in a parentheses. For example: What Ron Paul said was ridiculous! (10)

07-30-2010, 04:28 PM	#291 (permalink)
zebrazebrazebraSHAFT The Government Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 98 Internets: 1037	good to know, thanks (0)

07-30-2010, 06:10 PM	#292 (permalink)
Orgazmo COME ON YOU YANKS Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 15,728 Internets: 311447	Fuck you, you're not welcome (10)

03-17-2011, 10:27 PM	#293 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106

03-17-2011, 11:33 PM	#294 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Blonde were you forced to go to church a lot as a kid? You seem to have a lot of hatred for organized religion so I'm just curious what your specific childhood was like in relation to it.

03-17-2011, 11:44 PM	#295 (permalink)
Mr. Blonde Spice Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,969 Internets: 284106	Baptized Catholic, Protestant church every Sunday until I was 18, did a lot of acolyting, in early teens went through Confirmation, was forced through peer pressure to 'accept Jesus into my heart' several times (even though I never felt anything), was heavily involved in Youth Group all through high school. Luckily was never molested.