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Unread 09-27-2004, 10:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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So this weekend my friend...we'll name here "Jessica"...came to visit me at BSU. A little background on this little lady.

We met about a week before I came to college about two years ago at a party of a friend of mine's back home in elkhart. She knew my best friend, and he introduced us, and we ended up getting drunk and hooking up that night...nothing really serious. Anyways, I went to college, and we still talked, and dated a little whenever I came home and visited and such, but it never got too serious, in fact back then I was an emotional little bitch and we never went past making out. We stopped "seeing each other" or whatever you want to call it, but we still talked a lot online and visited each other whenever I came home, or she was around the BSU area...which was like once.

So things continued like this, and we have become very good friends over the past two years. We tell each other about our relationship problems, who we have been talking to lately, yada yada so on and so forth. Now pretty much ever since we stopped seeing each other i've still had a crush on her, but I have this sense that, while it comes in handy, sometimes it leads to my own folly. Some of you ladies in the audience probably would be happy to know more guys like this. I'm sure quite a few of the nubblite men have this sense as well, as most of you seem like intelligent men. ANYWAYS, even if like a girl, I can usually pick up whether or not they like me as well, or are at least interested in me at all. Body language, things they say, just overall reading their actions. So I usually know when or when not to make moves on girls that I am talking to...i.e. whether she has decided to be friends or not. I do not like putting others or myself in uncomfortable situations, and usually do everything within my power to avoid such a situation. Therefore, if I can sense even slightly that a woman is not interested in me, I do not make a move. Unless I am drunk and don't care. The friend thing, as I'm sure most guys who are reading this agree with, is always a very, very confusing thing to pick out when you just start hanging out with a girl, or you start to like a girl you have always been friends with. For those girls who don't know what I mean by this, and those guys who have never really thought about it, I give you this site, www.laddertheory.comThis site is nothing but utter truth.

Back to the story. My friend "Jessica" and I, although we have been dating lately and telling each other about it, have also started to talk a lot more as opposed to what we have been lately. She told me a couple weekends ago that soon she is going to come down to one of my rugby games here at bsu, and naturally, I was excited at the prospect of her coming down for the first time solely to see me. At this point in the story I will throw out the fact that "Jessica" is probably one of the most attractive girls I know. She has a gorgeous petite body, beautiful face, and awesome personality...she's all around cool as hell, and there is almost never any drama with this girl.
This past thursday she tells me that she may come down this weekend (this last weekend), just for a night, because she had nothing else to do and she proclaimed "I reaaaallly want to see you!" She says that a couple friends of hers will be coming down on Saturday night, so my roommates were excited as well. Turns out none of her friends could go, and she almost didn't come at all. Thanks to my charm and wit (...), she thought about it and found one of her male friends to drive down with her, who luckily went off and did his own thing once he got here. I went to pick her up(she looked gorgeous as usual), had her follow me back here, and we started drinking. However, because of her problem finding friends to come down with, she did not arrive in Muncie until approximately 11:30 pm. And since I had to pick her up, I had to stay sober. I am never sober at 11:30 on a Saturday night. I'm never sober at 7:30 on a Saturday night. We played a couple rounds of beer pong with my roommates and some friends at our place, then hung out and drank for a while more before going out to a few of my friend's houses. Saturday night here kinda sucked, and there was really nothing fun going on, especially since it was about 1:30-2 before we really got out anyways.

"Jessica" is a very flirtacious and touchy gal. After multiple straddling occassions as well as some leg-rubbing and such during a whole night, a guy, especially a drunk guy tends to get certain ideas in his head. We ended up coming back and chilling for a while, before going upstairs to watch a movie.

-Usually, when I have a girl back at my place, its late at night, and we're both at least semi-drunk, it always turns out well for me.-

However, it was about 3:30 when we went upstairs to watch the movie, and she hardly got any sleep the night before because she was out. After about 15 minutes she had fallen asleep in my lap, and I was damn near comatose myself. I proceeded to turn off the TV and wake her up telling her it is time to go to bed. We make our way into my bedroom (really, it's a closet, but my closet is 3 sq. ft. bigger than one of my roommates entire room, except for the ceiling which is low and slanted...but it's huge. Also crucial to the story is that I put my old twin bed and my new full size bed side by side in my closet, so over about 2/3 of the closet is completely mattress.)

We get into my room and I go outside while she changes and then I come in and change, and she finds my closet setup amusing and asks "so which side do you usually sleep on?" Thinking nothing of the question more than pure curiousity, I tell her "the full bed". She then proceeds to jump on the twin bed and say "Let me try this one out"

Fuck.

She then proceeds to get under the covers, and at this point, i'm way too tired and drunk to be thinking anyways, so I just say fuck it and go to sleep. On my side of the bed. Far away from "Jessica", and her near naked body, which is where I should have been. We both proceed to pass out. About 4 hours later my alarm goes off (she had to leave by 8:00. Yes, she got there at 11 at night and had to leave at 8 in the morning. I don't even think I'd do that for a hot girl, let alone a friend which is apparently all we are, how was i supposed to judge this situation?) She gets dressed and we hang out and chit chat for a bit before she has to leave. I walk her out to her car and say thanks for coming, and make sure to keep my distance from the car, so she doesnt think I am trying to get a goodbye kiss or something (Like I said, I try not to make people feel uncomfortable as often as possible). She gets in, thanks me for inviting and letting me stay with her, and leaves. I go back upstairs and play Halo for an hour, venting my frustration and confusion about the previous night/morning onto the Covenant and Flood, then go to sleep for the rest of the day.

She also says she is coming down this next weekend with her friends to party and either the weekend after that or the next one after to watch a game of mine and stay here and party. What in the fuck is going on?

I have several possible explanations for the events that happened.

A. The night before she came here, when she was out partying late, because of her flirtacious and openly hot self, she and some friends partied with some guys they hardly knew, and slept in the same bed with one of them because it was that or the floor. The guy took this as an invitation to mess around with her, and she declined, and therefore he got really pissed and she left the room. She ended up having to sleep on the floor or something and called me really late that night, crying and drunk, telling me about the situation, although I couldnt make much out until she told me the next day. So perhaps she was a little shook up about previous night and did not want the same thing to happen tonight, and is sick of guys wanting her for nothing but play (even though i've known her for 2+ years).

B. She thinks of me as a friend and nothing more. A friend who she comes down to visit nearly 3 hours away for a 9 hour period, 4 of which were spent asleep. Those 9 hours were not counting the 3 hours here and back. I simply don't know what to think.

C. She was very very tired and just went to sleep on the other side of the bed because she did not want me trying to do anything (which i probably would have) because she just wanted to sleep and nothing else.

There are probabaly a few other reasons as to why what happened happened, and I am still sorting them out. I suppose if she visits this weekend, I will see if the actions are repeated then will hopefully be able to deduce what her attitude towards me is.

The thing is, i'm not hurt or sad or anything about the situation...she's a flirt and isnt very good at keeping serious relationships, and plus she's 3 hours away now and will be at IU next year. Not worth a relationship try-out to me. However, she is extremely attractive and I am at the point in my life where I want to mess around with any female that is hot, and want nothing more. Granted, if she wanted a relationship I would try to comply, because she's just that hot, but I don't see her wanting that.

Sure, our friendship would probably be better off if nothing happened between us, but fuck that, she's hot and if I have the chance to do anything with her, i'm going to.

Any fellow nubblites care to offer any insight on the matter? Because i'm fucking lost.

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Unread 09-27-2004, 11:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Damn.

Don't know what I can tell you. I'm not gonna tell you what you want. Err... I don't mean that you have something specific in mind other than good advice, I just mean that until you decide what it is that you want, I'm not sure how much any good nubblite could help. I can say that I've never known a friend to fuck around with a hot girl and not have it come back to bite 'em in the balls. I'd steer away from that course.

Not sure which Mr. Blonde I'm talking to so I can't take anything in from your personality, but most guys don't give themselves enough credit. I think you could probably find a hot girl that wasn't going to play around with your head.

Honestly. I don't think the chick herself knows what she wants. That's part of the reason she has a friend she can flirt around with without having to feel threatened. On the other hand, she cries herself to sleep 'cause she had to sleep on the floor (exaggerating here). A dangerous thing this is. I recommended against just banging her and seeing how the friendship goes... but I'm not sure that this chick would be good for much more than that. Yet... I kinda wonder why she's the way she is in the first place...

I don't think this chick is dating material for you Man (capitalized 'cause I mean it for men in general since I have no idea who I'm talking to). I'm not saying the chick is unstable, just that until she knows what she wants, someone trying to get something from her (relationship or... the sex) is going to be in a perilous situation.

I think the absolute best thing you can do in this situation is decide what you want... AND NOT CHANGE YOUR MIND. Period (no ifs, ands, or buts). The more fippant you are, the more likely she's going to be less... sure what she wants. In my opinion, the girl needs something solid (not meaning your dick) in her life. Eventually, she might find some sort of balance. ...more often though, they just never learn. (actually, I don't know a single chick of that flavor who ever has).

It seems like you two get along smashingly. If you're any of the people I think you might be, you can do better (and even if not, the same is probably true).

[ September 27, 2004, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Percipere'Chan ]

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Unread 09-27-2004, 11:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Why not ask her?
Believe it or not, most girls are capable and willing to make their intentions known. If you're really that good of friends with her, it might be awkward for both of you for a minute but it will pass... and isn't a short time of mutual awkwardness better than you pining over her wondering what could have happened?

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Unread 09-28-2004, 12:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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'Chan: There's more than one Mr. Blonde? Thanks for the advice; I think I get what you're saying. For as long as i've known her I don't think she's unstable at all, (even though i know you were exaggerating) but she was drunk and was somewhere strange around a guy who could very possibly end up raping her, i could see where she was coming from. But i know what you mean, she may be unstable and I just don't know it, and that could def. be trouble. And in regards to the end of your post, I really don't think you know me...because I have no idea who you are.

Stab:Also thank you for your advice. I'll see how things go this weekend and depending on how everything goes I might just talk to her about it.

Thanks again. More opinions/criticisms are always welcome.

Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing.

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Unread 09-28-2004, 01:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh, shit. I thought 'Mr. Blonde' was just passed around between different nubblites. Wasn't there a thread about that? Did I just make that shit up?

*checks depletion of his stash...

Sorry 'bout that Mr. B. I'll go with this as our first official meeting. SUP NIGGA!?

Got two other thoughts... I really don't think this is something she does on a regular basis by any means, but I don't think it's too hard to avoid putting yourself in a situation where there's the possiblity of some drunk guy...

Random crazy shit can happen to everyone though. There are benefits to being mindful either way. (What!? You tink you some kin-a Jedi wagging your tongue around like-a-dat?)

I'm totally serious about making up your mind what you want before she comes down. Or at least making a total outward appearance of it. If you're laid back and know what you want, I think two things will happen. #1, you'll be more confident in what ever situational stuff comes up. #2, well... any mixed signals she gets from you (whenever she may be looking) are going make things that much more confusing for her. Best to give her a something consistant.

Just my .02. Hope all goes well my man.

[Whoever has the George W. Bush account: This is your que to post saying: "Stay the course!".

PS- Stab: You might have the best suggestion of them all. It didn't even occur to me to just ask the chick. ...now that I think about it though, wouldn't that result poorly if the whole laddertheory is true? I dunno. Just a though.

[ September 27, 2004, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Percipere'Chan ]

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Unread 09-28-2004, 01:29 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I really like the 'talk to her' idea. That's where you can put my vote.

edit in response to Chan's post

A.) Yes, there was an account made just for advice and stuff...or something like that...but it's rarely/never used (and it's not Mr. Blonde ).

B.) Even though the Ladder Theory always applies, I think we can all agree that it's possible for guys to be friends with girls that they aren't actively hooking up with. It's just...the way it is. I think that Blonde finding out that this girl isn't interested in him this way will simply shape his actions toward her...not necessarily destroy the fun that he is going to have with her. Basically, instead of being a slick bastard around her...he'll instead be more laid back and fun...having himself a good time in the process. Of course he'll still want to get with her (because she's hot...and that's what guys who don't have a girlfriend who is hotter than one of their friends do)...but, because he'll know that these aren't his intentions, he won't be wasting his time doing something which probably just isn't going to happen.

end edit in response to Chan's post

In other news...nice post.

[ September 27, 2004, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Orgazmo ]
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Unread 09-28-2004, 02:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I just talked to her on the phone about coming down this weekend...I guess she's coming down late on friday night and leaving sat. night because otherwise they'd have to leave at 7:00 am on sunday morning...the logic here is really difficult to understand, anyways, i'll be gone pretty much all day saturday at purdue, and by the time i get back i'm sure they'll be gone...none of this is really relevant I suppose but I guess i'm stalling before saying that...i guess i'm afraid to ask her whats up? The more and more I look into it (which isnt good in the first place) and from our convo we just had it just doesnt seem like she's interested...rather she wants more good guy friends. Which isnt really what I want and if I do that i'll only be torturing myself...but i've been doing it for 2 years anyways...blahh i dont know.




P.S. In hindsight, I probably should have put this in Confessional/Advice forum, but the original post was more of a rant I think...just in case anybody was wondering

[ September 28, 2004, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]

Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information processing.

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Unread 09-28-2004, 01:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Blonde
I believe in the theory that all women know (consciously or subconsciously) if they will have sex with a guy within minutes of meeting him. You said that the first night you and 'Jessica' met, you hooked up. This leads me to believe that if you want to get them draws, you could.

You said that the two of you drink together, this is the perfect time to bring up the possibility of hooking up. Don't get all sappy about it, simply ask if she's ever thought about you two getting together... if you're perceptive in the least, you'll be able to pick up on what her response is regardless of what she says. The most common response I've encountered is... she'll smile, blush, look away for a second, then immediately look back making and holding eye contact for a little longer than what's comfortable... she's trying to feel you out, to see if you're serious about her or just want another notch on the bedpost... this is a very important few seconds, keep eye contact with her and don't laugh or give her the 'c'mon and get it' smile, as long as she doesn't say NO, you're in like Flynt. She may change the subject without giving you a straight answer, but that's alright, you already know her response.

All Guys
Now, I'm about to impart a little wisdom unto you, my good men... wisdom that could change your lives. Girls, women, chicks... they all have a filthy side. Some repress it and will never admit to it, but they all want the random hook-ups as much as guys do... granted, for the most part, they are more discerning in who they will have this hook-up with, but the drive is the same. Females, just like men, place guys into groups... they have three basic groups...

1. Guys they would date
2. Guys they would fuck
3. Guys they would be friends with
yes, I realize that 'guys they would date' are 'guys they would fuck', but for this purpose, I'm talking about guys they would fuck without dating.

It is possible to exist in more than one group, or to switch groups but, for the most part, you're stuck where they initially place you. The tricky part is finding out where you reside for each girl.

I have found a really easy way to influence where you stand with a girl you're just meeting. I simply say right off the bat "Hi, I'm Stab, I have a girlfriend" this throws them off because they are naturally suspicious and distrutful of new guys, they're used to guys trying hard to hit on them and keep their girlfriends a secret. This also completely takes away two of their groups... they can't logically think they're going to date you (although, it will make them want to date you more, simply because your honest and obviously think about your girlfriend when she's not around)... they also realize theat there is little to no hope of them becoming good friends with you because of the girlfriend. What does this leave?

The ladder theory as summed up by Chris Rock...

"I envy women... women get to have platonic friends... Men don't have platonic friends, we just have women we haven't fucked YET. As soon as I figure this out, I'm in there!
I guess I have some platonic friends, but they're all by accident... every platonic friend I've got started as some woman I was trying to fuck, I made a wrong turn somewhere and ended up in the friend zone."

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Unread 09-28-2004, 06:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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you can't just generalize women like that, just like we can't generalize men. not all girls act the same way.. a lot of them may work the way you've just explained, but a lot of them won't. we all have different emotional levels (some are EXTREMELY emotional, some are really laid back), and we certainly all have different ways we express those emotions. some girls just come right out and say what they're feeling, others will deny their true thoughts to the very end.

bottom line: you guys just need to stick with the theory that we can't be figured out, and the same goes for us when it comes to you.

oh... and stab, you forgot the fourth category: guys we absolutely can't stand.

[ September 28, 2004, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: underwater ]

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Unread 09-28-2004, 07:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Gentlemen, "Ladder Theory" is a silly piece of satire, bastarized by pathetic, sniveling men across the world as dogma, an excuse as to why they can't get any. Anybody who takes it seriously (better yet, uses it to bitch and moan, especially in front of the fairer sex) deserves to die, old and alone, in his semen stained bed.

Quote:
Originally posted by underwater:
you can't just generalize women like that
Yes, we can.

Or, there's my approach:

1. Women that want to be with Sex McSexington
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Unread 09-28-2004, 07:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'd like to see The Cockstarr & Sex McSexington in some kind of bitch-humping contest.
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Unread 09-28-2004, 08:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mr. Blonde,
Quote:
Mr.Blonde
...i guess i'm afraid to ask her whats up?
Seems like your into this chick more than I thought. I think I speak for all the nubblies here when I say:

It's time to remember you've got Ballz.

You're a fucking Nubblite. You think just any kid of the street can do that? Err... well, maybe they can. But your part of what makes Nubblies what it is, the Nubblie Core. The Nubblite Core don't give a shit. And you know why? 'Cause they Kick Fuckin' Ass, that's why. They're the Badasses. Kings of the Castle, Rulers of the Land, Guiding force of the Intellectual Domain, Street Toughs Extrodinare, Masters of Emo, Makers of Musical Mayhem, and Eaters of serious, Serious pizza.

Whatever shit comes their way, they take full fuckin' advantage. If she gives you the chance, you'll bang 'er. If it's All good, you'll have her to bang on regular occasion. If no chance comes, you'll stay in the friend zone. But you know what? Your friend zone is there for a reason. Where do aquaintances come from? That's Right. The Friend Zone. The bigger friend zone you have, the more potential for Hot Chicks you have. And Nubblites? They take FULL FUCKIN' ADVANTAGE.

Stab:
Can we STICKY this shit? I mean Jesus. This is sheer fucking Brilliance. 'nuff said.

underwater:
We can. We do. So do you (in general underwater... in general).
Quote:
underwater
you guys just need to stick with the theory that we can't be figured out, and the same goes for us when it comes to you.
What kind of defeatist bullshit is that? If I didn't know you better I'd think you were trying to manipulate some shit. Stab's theory might not be perfect, but I think it's pretty fucking on. And even if I didn't, which do you honestly prefer: 2) Something that's close to the truth but needs refinement, or D) tossing it all up in the air and saying "I'll never be able to know". You tell me what's more wise. And frankly underwater, it kinda pisses me off too. You can be a pretty awesome chick sometimes. Why not do what you've got in you to help this idea along. You don't have to agree with the whole damn thing, but You're a Nubblite too. Take Advantage. Make the world (and nubblies.net) a better place. Give it a real critique and give guys the ammo they need to give girls what they really want.

[ September 28, 2004, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Percipere'Chan ]

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Unread 09-29-2004, 12:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
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no, honestly. i'm just saying it for everyone's own good.. you can't set up a "theory" about the opposite sex, or a list of "Dos" and "Don'ts" and expect them to apply in most situations.

every girl is different. every guy is different. they have different wants, needs, goals, expectations, etc. some are more open than others, some are pretty damn shady. some are very serious, some are very playful.

...oh.. oh, man.. i have to end this post. will explain later! and.. ellaborate and junk.

We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, because your friends don't dance and if they don't dance then they're no friends of mine.
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Unread 09-29-2004, 02:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by underwater:
every girl is different... they have different wants, needs, goals, expectations
Wants:
Some girls want it gentle, passionate... others want it rough, animalistic. Sex McSexington gladly obliges.

Needs:
Some girls need Sex on the beach, others in bed, others in the back of my car. No problem.

Goals:
Well... I think we all have the same goal, if you catch my drift.

Expectations:
Being the well-endowed figure that I am, Sex McSexington, I can assure you, I meat... er meet, all expectations.

[ September 29, 2004, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Sex McSexington ]
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Unread 09-29-2004, 02:23 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The Cockstarr apoligizes for net getting here until now. Prepare for the best advice you've gotten: Fuck Her.

The Cockstarr has spoken.
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