It can't just be that simple to "might as well believe in God". If I am going to believe in something, I have to have a legitimate reason to believe in it.

StDx, I've been saying that for a while now, it's neat to find out that someone kinda understands that viewpoint also. I have said before that I believe that people made Christianity to explain everything that they truly know they can't explain on their own. I would love to explain this further, but no matter how I can try to attempt to put it correctly, it will still make zero sense. It is too hard to discuss a topic like this online, and still make reasonable sense. I'm all for a group gathering on it. Somebody should set something up.

Just one last question, what were Jesus' last words before he died on the cross?

"get your stinking paws off of me you damn dirty ape"

It is done.

-Ugly Bastard

Acutally UB, if you look there are more than one things that Jesus apparently said before he died. If I'm not mistaken two different writers had different views, one wrote that jesus said "it is done", the other said Jesus cried "Father why hath thou forsaken me"
this is all just info I'm pulling from the back of my head from years ago, but I do believe I am correct.

Yeah you're right. Incidentally, so was I. I just didn't divulge the whole truth. ;)

-Ugly Bastard

I personally don't see how one could believe everything in the bible. For one it was written by man, not by God, therefore I'd say it's going to have some errors in it.

2nd of all, I don't know if I believe in hell or not. I knid of do, kind of don't...that may be a cop out according to active, but oh well.

Anyways, God is supposed to be a loving God. He supposedly loves us more than anyone could comprehend correct? Moreso than parents, friends, siblings. How could someone who loves us that much damn us eternally? I just don't see it possible. My dad couldn't do that to me, and God loves me more than he could comprehend. I'm not saying that there isn't some sort of punishment, but eternal damnation seems to be kind of a stiff punishment to me.

I don't know. I don't claim to be the best christian in the world, nor do I really know anything about the bible. These are just some ideas that I have formulated in my head.

Also, when things like 9-11 happen, it kinda turns you away from religeon. When you see people kill thousands of people in it's name, you kinda ask yourself what the fuck?

I'm definatly not atheist, and I definatly believe that 99% of the bible is true, but every now and then I get doubts about the whole thing. There's just so many questions, but I guess that's where faith comes into play...

He 'loves' us so much he gave us a choice. Think about it...

And stuff like 9/11 --did God 'let' it happen...or was it just Free Will playing itself out in the world he created?

Firstly, if you can't believe in the whole Bible, then why believe in any of it?

Secondly, the Christian theory is that God blessed the authors of the Bible, and made sure that their accounts were complete and accurate.

-Ugly Bastard

Everyone who has even so much as casually posted in this thread, take this quiz.

(I got an 82, I'll take that).

-Ugly Bastard

87...

4... good enough for me

Wow, I'm probably one of the most unchurch-going christans in here, and i got an 89.

74...not too bad.

I think I got a 58...or something around that (I took it a few hours ago).

45, I'll see you all in hell.

I got 47. Since online quizes are never wrong, I am definitely going to hell.

I got a 45, but I already knew I was going to hell.

Well, it wouldn't let me finish.

"...We will pray that you find the truth."

With that in mind, I think my score is negative something.

Thanks Alpha, I knew someone would answer my question correctly. So what did he say? Do we know, or are there two diferent statements in the bizible?

[ July 12, 2003, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]

Fruit-

There are four different accounts of what Jesus actually said as his last words.

One could argue that the first two quotes on that link were not his last words though.

-Ugly Bastard

Heh, I got 100.

I didn't need to take that quiz to know that, though.

Thanks for the exhibition of the "holier than thou" tendency of most Christians. It's disgusting, really. I thought that one of the primary values of Christianity was humility. And you wonder why so many turn away from God... between the aforementioned attitude, the Biblical textbook-esque quoting, intolerance and hypocracy, more atheists are made by these than by science.

An atheist can make it into heaven. From your indoctrinated, undoubted viewpoint, you might think otherwise. Those of you who are so eager to play God and exclude people of different paradigms, guess what? There are other people out there, with different beliefs, expecting you to experience eternal damnation. Not cool. What if they are right? You don't know, and I don't expect you to change your mind, but unless you compare your own beliefs against every belief system out there down to every minute detail, you won't really know what's best for you, not to mention what's really right. There's no way you could possibly do that. Nobody else can either.

You see, that's the problem with thinking that there is only one path, one ticket. There's no way that everyone has a chance to get this ticket, there just isn't. Even in our modern world, not everyone has been exposed to the Truth, and many who you think have, have not. When a "Christian" goes around cramming a Bible in someone's face, threatening them with damnation, and treating them with no respect, they aren't doing the work of God. When your regular church goer sees nothing but hypocracy and indifference, he might have reason for turning away. I believe that God simply won't turn everyone away who is not a true follower of {insert religious affiliation here}. It doesn't seem right. There has to be more to the equation than that. It's not our place to judge the fate of others, thankfully.

Something tells me that being religious, taking Jesus into your heart, good deeds, and prayer simply to earn a place in heaven, is plain wrong, and it concerns me that it seems to be the motivation of so many of you. The atheists and others might have the advantage here, as our goal should be altruism for the sake of altruism, rather than goodness for the promise of a eternal reward.

Moving on: Ninjaface, you're hinting (probably inadvertantly) at something known as Pascal's Wager. It's a rather intriguing case for believing in the existance of God. I'd be happy to go into it in a little depth if any of you would like it explained better.

Alright.... I had to say something... but I kept it brief and only slightly incoherent. Let the discussion continue.

[ July 12, 2003, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: victim ]

It's already been said better than I could hope to...

"Freethinkers—Atheists—admit that they don't know life's punch line. Indeed, we admit to not knowing a great many things. But we would rather be in ignorance than in error. And the best way to minimize error and the misfortunes that errors lead to, is to insist on facts and reason as the basis for our opinions. We resist the temptation to believe something for no better reason than that it might afford us a false—and probably temporary—sense of comfort or security. Indeed, we do not see beliefs themselves—at least about many things—as especially important. Rather, we consider that beliefs are merely stopping-off places, or resting points, in the essential process of the human condition, which is thinking. For you cannot think if you are believing. Nor can you believe if you are thinking."
-Dr. Tim Gorski

"If a man accepts a religious proposition as true, it is hardly ever after having first considered it as a hypothesis and found compelling evidence through an impartial inquiry. Few religious people have studied comparative religion, and hardly any have attained their beliefs as a result of study: yet this would be de rigeur if the religious person's attitude toward the religious propositions he believes were at all similar to the historian's or the scientist's attitude toward the propositions with which they concern themselves. The fact that religious person frequently considers his religious propositions ever so much more important only aggravates the problem. The more important the issue at hand, the more it demands careful scrutiny. This is a simple but important issue which most religious people overlook."

Walter Kaufmann

Excellent posts Stabmaster and Victim. You summarized all of the same feelings I have for the subject, except in a much more intelligent way than I could have.

Indeed

I just looked at thread topic, and realized all my posts were only relevant to 'Christianity'--

Thats all.