Go Rick Santelli! - Page 5 - Nubblies.net Forums

DJ FC · 03-25-2009, 04:18 PM

Thomas Eddison was more than 1000 times better and more valuable to society than you.

1000 yous couldn't recreate what he did, or what the JP Morgans and Rockerfellers did. 1000 yous couldn't run an S&P 500 company.

Edit: It really is true that 1 trader or banker in London or New York can create more value by moving capital than 100 people working in mini-marts in Gary, Indiana. At the pinacle of finance the truely brilliant allow capital to flow the freest, create so much more wealth for society because of this, and benefit personally.

Beebs · 03-25-2009, 04:45 PM

Even if that were all false; if somebody is willing to pay any amount to anybody, for any reason, they are, BY DEFINITION, worth it. Likewise if nobody is willing to pay for something, it is just as definitively worthless: absent of any monetary value whatsoever.

Fuck "hard work", fuck "fair", fuck "living wage"; a person is monetarily worth whatever the fuck they can convince anybody to pay them, no more, no less, ever, no exceptions.

Your stupid fucking worthless opinions on what something is worth is completly irrelevant and arbitrary unless you are the one paying for it, end of discussion.

DJ FC · 03-25-2009, 04:51 PM

What about con men?

Dent · 03-25-2009, 04:59 PM

Or tax?

TwoBlackEyes · 03-25-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebs

Even if that were all false; if somebody is willing to pay any amount to anybody, for any reason, they are, BY DEFINITION, worth it. Likewise if nobody is willing to pay for something, it is just as definitively worthless: absent of any monetary value whatsoever.

Apparently, they aren't "worth" that, or they'd be working somewhere that could afford to pay them that much.

Fact is, none of the bailed out institutions can afford to pay their staffs at ALL without the sweet, sweet government teat continuing to feed them.

If I agree to hire you to do my taxes for $1 million per hour, are you suddenly "worth" that much, since I have no way to actually pay you? I mean, you were promised that money, so that means you deserve it, right? And I'll never, ever be able to find someone to replace you if I no longer offer that same $1 million per hour package, right?

TwoBlackEyes · 03-25-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George W. Bush

Thomas Eddison was more than 1000 times better and more valuable to society than you.

1000 yous couldn't recreate what he did, or what the JP Morgans and Rockerfellers did. 1000 yous couldn't run an S&P 500 company.

Edit: It really is true that 1 trader or banker in London or New York can create more value by moving capital than 100 people working in mini-marts in Gary, Indiana. At the pinacle of finance the truely brilliant allow capital to flow the freest, create so much more wealth for society because of this, and benefit personally.

Yeah, look at how we're all benefiting soooooooo much right now from all that "created wealth"

Thank god for the reckless "movement of capital" that has given us such a strong, healthy economy right now. What would we do without the rich looking out for all of us?

Ugly Bastard · 03-25-2009, 05:11 PM

Women are such little fuckin' socialists. Should have never passed the 19th amendment.

TwoBlackEyes · 03-25-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George W. Bush

You obviously don't know how this works, or how it happened.

Many of these traders make their banks $$$$ MILLIONS even during the crisis. Many of them did deals which created value or profit for their firms. But nobody gets bonuses, even the good ones. How can you call the thousands who came out of the BEST schools in America, the ones who worked the HARDEST and who were the SMARTEST dumbasses? You could never be a trader at Goldman Sachs. If you are jealous at least admit it, as I will, about the amazing talent at these financial institutions, you don't need to talk shit just because the world got caught up in a bubble. It was everyday ordinary people who lived beyond their means for too long that got us into this. Not every Wall St. Banker. There were some bad bankers, who put on bad bets, but 90% of them were good. I can't think straight when I feel pure anger. I feel pure rage and hatred for people who blindly want to hurt america. Ironic that I'm blindly saying these things, but not so in that these thoughts consume all the time. I think about these things logically and rationally. Then I get angry. And I just want to say FUCK YOU AMERICA I'M NEVER COMING BACK. But I probably will.

Please. Don't ever come back.

And guess what? Companies don't lose BILLIONS in a single quarter based on just a few people mis-managing investments. And making several million dollars selling insurance packages that you can't afford to pay out on if a claim is made ISN"T REALLY MAKING MONEY. It's black on the balance sheet for a while, yes. But it isn't actual wealth.

These people sold insurance on investments in mortgages. When the mortgages failed, they couldn't pay back the insurance on it. They bet, and they lost.

If I offered to insure your car for up to $1 million in liability in exchange for $2,000 per year, and you don't have any accidents for 10 years, then technically I "made" $20,000. WHOO. Until you have an accident where you sideswipe a schoolbus in the 10th year and suddenly I have to pay $1 million in damages that you caused.

Suddenly I'm bankrupt. Shit. Should I still be patting myself on the back for making that easy $20,000 in the last 10 years? Was I really creating value there?

Now magnify that by the GDP of a small country. If I lose billions, am I truly successful for making millions?

TwoBlackEyes · 03-25-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Women are such little fuckin' socialists. Should have never passed the 19th amendment.

I'm no socialist. The banks should never have been bailed out at all.

But when AIG decides to become a bunch of welfare queens, they can fuck off when I tell them they can't drive a Cadillac anymore.

Dent · 03-25-2009, 05:19 PM

TBE : as much as I seem to agree with you on this, there's a thread that needs your attention, I made my girlfriend wear a tight white top with no bra on, and take pictures of herself, just to give an example.
now please, I understand your refusal to show tits, but this isn't even that.
please?

Beebs · 03-25-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoBlackEyes

Apparently, they aren't "worth" that, or they'd be working somewhere that could afford to pay them that much.

Fact is, none of the bailed out institutions can afford to pay their staffs at ALL without the sweet, sweet government teat continuing to feed them.

If I agree to hire you to do my taxes for $1 million per hour, are you suddenly "worth" that much, since I have no way to actually pay you? I mean, you were promised that money, so that means you deserve it, right? And I'll never, ever be able to find someone to replace you if I no longer offer that same $1 million per hour package, right?

What the fuck are you going on about?

I clearly said, and even if I hadn't, the context if pretty fucking self evident; that you are worth whatever you can convince anybody to PAY YOU, paying is the actual event of exchanging wealth; if you enter into agreement with somebody who can't actually pay, you haven't convinced them to PAY YOU have you?

I'm glad we could have this ESL lesson today. I mean was that not completely obvious? Are you that much of a worthless cunt that you just arbitrarily come up with a completely off the wall example that is completely unrelated? Or are you just that stupid?

So which is it? Flat out stupid, or a demented cunt bitch?

I'm not arguing for any particular one person here; I'm arguing against the MORONIC idea that nobody is worth (insert arbitrary amount here). Anybody can be worth anything, period.

You're right, all that "created wealth" is really hurting us; that is why we are further along in every aspect of every human endeavor ever undertaken; those fat cats really screwed us. We could easily be living in the abject luxury the hard working people had under Ceausescu and PolPot, they sure showed those idiot investment bankers who was in charge.

Fucking spare me this "the government is their savior" bullshit; they are more culpable than any other entity in the world. What was the trigger of all of this? Bad mortage debt; who held the lions share of that debt, who took it on? The government, in the form of Freddy and Fannie. Why do you think there was so much bad debt? Because of the laws passed requiring Freddy and Fannie to take on an arbitrarily, artificial, and fixed amount of high risk debt to ensure that everybody got a "fair" chance.

I never wanted a bailout either, but when it comes to this "the taxpayers deserve a share" who exactly do you think the taxpayers are? How much money over the years has a company like AIG given to the government over the years? Who do you think actually pays the taxes in this country? When I get a financial stake in every stupid hick pumping out kids The same "evil rich people" that every worthless hillbilly cunt such as yourself is on a crusade after. AIG has now been given that money; so it can, should, and needs to operate as a fucking business, businesses need to pay their employees what the market demands if they want to keep their employees.

But hey, I'm sure every redneck fast food worker can do just as good of a job as the guy who actually has a brain, an education, and talent.

Beebs · 03-25-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George W. Bush

What about con men?

Unless the guy is more of a strong arm than a conman, he and the other party entered into an agreement that they both had thought about and determined to be mutually beneficial; why should one guy be at fault if the other is a complete idiot?

Thats the wonderful thing about freedom; people will not enter into an agreement unless they believe it to be beneficial; and since it necessarily involves two or more parties, that means nothing happens without consent and believing that the deal is mutually beneficial.

Arbitrarily interfering with that process by means of a socialist government who feels that the people can't be trusted to make their own decision, means there are no mutually beneficial agreements because their is no need for it; people stop thinking about what actually works, and start thinking they know whats best for other people, rather than worrying about themselves.

Like two certain fucking morons on this site.

Mr. Blonde · 03-25-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George W. Bush

Nikola Tesla was more than 1000 times better and more valuable to society than you.

fyp.

that's all i have to add.

DDTempest · 03-25-2009, 10:27 PM

Ok since you guys are bickering back and forth about bonuses and clearly didn't read the article I posted (protip: its chalked full of information) I'll provide you a highlight regarding the bonuses.

$450 Million dollars in bonuses paid out to around 400 employees in the unit responsible for the economic collapse of AIG. This unit is being liquidated and shut down and they are each being given gigantic sums of money to "wrap things up nicely."

Quote:

Then, in January 2009, the company did it again. After all those years letting Cassano run wild, and after already getting caught paying out insane bonuses while on the public till, AIG decided to pay out another $450 million in bonuses. And to whom? To the 400 or so employees in Cassano's old unit, AIGFP, which is due to go out of business shortly! Yes, that's right, an average of $1.1 million in taxpayer-backed money apiece, to the very people who spent the past decade or so punching a hole in the fabric of the universe!

"We, uh, needed to keep these highly expert people in their seats," AIG spokeswoman Christina Pretto says to me in early February.

"But didn't these 'highly expert people' basically destroy your company?" I ask.

Pretto protests, says this isn't fair. The employees at AIGFP have already taken pay cuts, she says. Not retaining them would dilute the value of the company even further, make it harder to wrap up the unit's operations in an orderly fashion.

Dent · 03-26-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebs

Unless the guy is more of a strong arm than a conman, he and the other party entered into an agreement that they both had thought about and determined to be mutually beneficial; why should one guy be at fault if the other is a complete idiot?

Thats the wonderful thing about freedom; people will not enter into an agreement unless they believe it to be beneficial; and since it necessarily involves two or more parties, that means nothing happens without consent and believing that the deal is mutually beneficial.

Arbitrarily interfering with that process by means of a socialist government who feels that the people can't be trusted to make their own decision, means there are no mutually beneficial agreements because their is no need for it; people stop thinking about what actually works, and start thinking they know whats best for other people, rather than worrying about themselves.

Like two certain fucking morons on this site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_mine...ike_(1984-1985)

Beebs · 03-26-2009, 08:11 AM

What point are you trying to make?

Other than British communists suck at doing any and everything, case in point, British Leyland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Am I supposed to change my mind about socialism after it nearly single handidly took what was once the most powerful entity on the planet to the brink of complete destruction? Am I supposed to be shocked and appalled that mines that had no business being open because they were abject failures had to close? Am I supposed to feel that Britian would be better of mining coal rather than taking the title of world economic capital from New York and moving it to London?

British communisim and communists failed at every aspect of life, and nearly took everybody else down with them.

Dent · 03-26-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebs

What point are you trying to make?

Other than British communists suck at doing any and everything, case in point, British Leyland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Am I supposed to change my mind about socialism after it nearly single handidly took what was once the most powerful entity on the planet to the brink of complete destruction? Am I supposed to be shocked and appalled that mines that had no business being open because they were abject failures had to close? Am I supposed to feel that Britian would be better of mining coal rather than taking the title of world economic capital from New York and moving it to London?

British communisim and communists failed at every aspect of life, and nearly took everybody else down with them.

I'm pretty much trolling, though what thatcher did was wrong, the UK has like 6 times the amount of coal it used between 1850(?) and 2000 thats easily accessable, shipping in coal from russia was the stupidest thing ever, but thats for another time.
Take a look at Volkswagen, socialism can work, only capitalism fucks it up.
Volkswagen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GWB/Beebs/UB, opinion on this?

YouTube - Peter Schiff: They're Gonna Change This Into An Inflationary Depression!

Ugly Bastard · 03-26-2009, 01:34 PM

Peter Schiff is the fucking man. One of the few guys to have been completely right about this whole thing. He actually wrote a book two years ago titled along the lines of "How to Protect Yourself from the Upcoming Economic Collapse". Baller shot call.

Beebs · 03-26-2009, 02:01 PM

VW's are good cards; anything BL actually managed to make in between strikes was like a holocaust on wheels.

DDTempest · 03-26-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Peter Schiff is the fucking man. One of the few guys to have been completely right about this whole thing. He actually wrote a book two years ago titled along the lines of "How to Protect Yourself from the Upcoming Economic Collapse". Baller shot call.

Didn't he also tell people to invest heavily in the Euro as part of avoiding this economic turmoil? I am sure that's worked out well for everyone so far.

Ugly Bastard · 03-26-2009, 05:02 PM

Hmm... source?

DDTempest · 03-26-2009, 05:05 PM

I was reading a thread about him and his predictions on another message board, don't care enough to go searching for it. You can just assume it wasn't true if that's easier for both of us.

Beebs · 03-27-2009, 07:24 AM

"My central investing premise, a weakening dollar and safety in gold, commodities and foreign stocks, didn't materialize in 2008. But all the ingredients were (and remain) present for those movements to occur. Over the past year, market reactions that I didn't foresee -- massive global deleveraging, a knee-jerk "flight to quality" into U.S. Treasurys and a sharp countertrend rally in the U.S. dollar -- have kept the scenario from playing out."

Ugly Bastard · 03-27-2009, 01:52 PM

That's quite a bit of reading between the lines if you interpret that as an outright recommendation to buy Euros.

ProfessorNumber · 03-27-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent

best hardest and smartest.. At working the system
The system is flawed and relies on exponential growth, it's not sustainable.
No one is worth a thousand times more than anyone else, the majority are being exploited.
Charge!

Oh, I'm sorry -- could you please explain to us what training you've received that allows you to quantify the monetary value of a person's work-output? On what basis are you qualified to tell a person what their physical or cognitive abilities are worth?

03-25-2009, 04:18 PM	#101 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	Thomas Eddison was more than 1000 times better and more valuable to society than you. 1000 yous couldn't recreate what he did, or what the JP Morgans and Rockerfellers did. 1000 yous couldn't run an S&P 500 company. Edit: It really is true that 1 trader or banker in London or New York can create more value by moving capital than 100 people working in mini-marts in Gary, Indiana. At the pinacle of finance the truely brilliant allow capital to flow the freest, create so much more wealth for society because of this, and benefit personally.
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them. Last edited by DJ FC; 03-25-2009 at 04:22 PM.

03-25-2009, 04:45 PM	#102 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	Even if that were all false; if somebody is willing to pay any amount to anybody, for any reason, they are, BY DEFINITION, worth it. Likewise if nobody is willing to pay for something, it is just as definitively worthless: absent of any monetary value whatsoever. Fuck "hard work", fuck "fair", fuck "living wage"; a person is monetarily worth whatever the fuck they can convince anybody to pay them, no more, no less, ever, no exceptions. Your stupid fucking worthless opinions on what something is worth is completly irrelevant and arbitrary unless you are the one paying for it, end of discussion.
	Last edited by Beebs; 03-25-2009 at 04:50 PM.

03-25-2009, 04:51 PM	#103 (permalink)
DJ FC MURICAN Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,136 Internets: 253094	What about con men?
	The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

03-25-2009, 04:59 PM	#104 (permalink)
Dent Lost in Hilbert Spice Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Surrounded by knaves and fools Posts: 3,519 Internets: 183146	Or tax?

03-25-2009, 05:11 PM	#107 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Women are such little fuckin' socialists. Should have never passed the 19th amendment.

03-25-2009, 05:19 PM	#110 (permalink)
Dent Lost in Hilbert Spice Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Surrounded by knaves and fools Posts: 3,519 Internets: 183146	TBE : as much as I seem to agree with you on this, there's a thread that needs your attention, I made my girlfriend wear a tight white top with no bra on, and take pictures of herself, just to give an example. now please, I understand your refusal to show tits, but this isn't even that. please?

03-26-2009, 08:11 AM	#116 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	What point are you trying to make? Other than British communists suck at doing any and everything, case in point, British Leyland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Am I supposed to change my mind about socialism after it nearly single handidly took what was once the most powerful entity on the planet to the brink of complete destruction? Am I supposed to be shocked and appalled that mines that had no business being open because they were abject failures had to close? Am I supposed to feel that Britian would be better of mining coal rather than taking the title of world economic capital from New York and moving it to London? British communisim and communists failed at every aspect of life, and nearly took everybody else down with them.

03-26-2009, 01:34 PM	#118 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Peter Schiff is the fucking man. One of the few guys to have been completely right about this whole thing. He actually wrote a book two years ago titled along the lines of "How to Protect Yourself from the Upcoming Economic Collapse". Baller shot call.

03-26-2009, 02:01 PM	#119 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	VW's are good cards; anything BL actually managed to make in between strikes was like a holocaust on wheels.

03-26-2009, 05:02 PM	#121 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	Hmm... source?

03-27-2009, 07:24 AM	#123 (permalink)
Beebs Poor Sport Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indianapolis / Middlebury / Long Lake Posts: 5,306 Internets: 127341	"My central investing premise, a weakening dollar and safety in gold, commodities and foreign stocks, didn't materialize in 2008. But all the ingredients were (and remain) present for those movements to occur. Over the past year, market reactions that I didn't foresee -- massive global deleveraging, a knee-jerk "flight to quality" into U.S. Treasurys and a sharp countertrend rally in the U.S. dollar -- have kept the scenario from playing out."

03-27-2009, 01:52 PM	#124 (permalink)
Ugly Bastard Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 13,643 Internets: 247330	That's quite a bit of reading between the lines if you interpret that as an outright recommendation to buy Euros.