Atheists CAN go to Heaven - Page 7 - Nubblies.net Forums

Schroeder · 09-19-2003, 12:58 AM

Catholics do not pray to Mary as if she were God. Prayer to Mary is memory of the great mysteries of our faith (Incarnation, Redemption through Christ in the rosary), praise to God for the wonderful things he has done in and through one of his creatures (Hail Mary) and intercession (second half of the Hail Mary). The latter is addressed to Mary not as to a vending machine but a support person helping us to discern the will of God in our lives. Mary is a volunteer, highly recommendable and recommended, but not a mandatory and inescapable passage.

So, yes, Pliedes, we do pray to Mary (and all the other saints) but God is always the most important. Certain saints are known for certain help, so you pray to them specifically. Some of these are very old but help to keep each Catholic's faith high. An example of this would be when some Catholic's either place a statue or bury a statue (I can't remember which) of Saint Peter? in their front yard when they are trying to sell their house.

Some people say that the Catholic church is very reminiscient of a cult but all the things we do we can back up with scripture, as most churches can. I'm finding out quickly that there is a wealth of information to be found about any religion under the sun, including Catholicism. Unfortunately, there is also a vast amount of anti-religion stuff out there. I typed in Anti-Catholic papers and found about 5,130 results. Some people can't be happy with just living their religion and letting other people live theirs. They have to go out and bash other religions and try to prove that theirs is the best. This is actually the complete opposite of what they are told. Most religions are taught to be accepting of differences but some people would go so far as that they don't have to accept other religions like Jews or Catholics. How hypocritical is that? If someone is all about hate, than there is no religion for them.

[ September 18, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Schroeder ]

BrassMonkees · 09-19-2003, 01:09 AM

riddle me this schreoder, does the catholic faith acknowledge the bible as its source of truth? Or are there any other things added/taken away from it?

Pliedes · 09-19-2003, 01:10 AM

So, is salvation through Jesus Christ the one and only way to heaven?

Titan · 09-19-2003, 01:11 AM

Due to extenuating circumstances that you don't want to know about and I don't want to tell you about, I, unfortunately, will not be participating in further conversation on this whole deal. I'm sorry if that flicks your trigger in the wrong direction. I've enjoyed this, thanks (I mean that).

[ September 18, 2003, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Titan ]

Pliedes · 09-19-2003, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Titan:
Due to extenuating circumstances that you don't want to know about and I don't want to tell you about, I, unfortunately, will not be participating in further conversation on this whole deal. I'm sorry if that flicks your trigger in the wrong direction. I've enjoyed this, thanks (I mean that).

Doublefairsexbear.

BigDongedHoe · 09-19-2003, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pliedes:

Schroeder, does the catholic church pray to the Virgin Mary? And remember we're not talking about just what you think, but the historical catholic church.[/QB]

Yes I know that I'm not schroeder however my g/f whom I've been with for quite sometime is catholic as well as her mother. What she more or less tells me is that they don't worship the virgin mary however they do pray to her to tell god things. The way they see it is that "who knows god better than his own mother?". Personally I disagree, if you want prayers answered than pray to god not to his mom.

StDx · 09-19-2003, 04:36 AM

Christ, can we just let this die? No one here is going to prove or disprove anyone else's religion so let it go.

Titan · 09-19-2003, 12:04 PM

We can't let it die until it accepts Jesus as it's saviour; we want this thread to go to heaven of course.

BigDongedHoe · 09-19-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schroeder:
Some people say that the Catholic church is very reminiscient of a cult but all the things we do we can back up with scripture.

Oh, is that so schroeder? So where in scripture can you back up the thought of purgatory? Catholics believe in purgatory because it's been tradition for 1500 years in the church. NOT because it's found in scripture, because you can't find it in scripture. What about limbo? limbo cannot be found in scripture, however it is a catholic belief because of how long it's traditionally been in scripture.

Schroeder · 09-19-2003, 02:09 PM

No, Catholics believe in Purgatory because of this passage:

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 is the key passage that has been used by Catholics in support of Purgatory:
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (KJV)

This passage, of course, can be argued either way for or against the idea of Purgatory. However, BDH, do you ever pray for family members that have died or people that you know that have died?

Pliedes · 09-19-2003, 03:28 PM

I know I don't pray for dead family members, you know why? They're dead. Their fate has already been decieded. Remember, sure. Honor, sure. But pray for them? Tis useless.

You think Jesus would've mentioned something as important as purgatory by name.

Schroeder · 09-19-2003, 04:13 PM

Yeah, well, if everything was crystal clear in the bible, all Christians would have the same religion, and not all this quibbling.

Pliedes · 09-19-2003, 04:27 PM

Quibbling? We're all asking serious religous questions.

Schroeder · 09-19-2003, 08:34 PM

Okay then, if the bible was crystal clear about everything, there wouldn't be any serious religous questions to ask. All the questions would be set in stone with one definitive answer. But how boring would that be?

BrassMonkees · 09-19-2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrassMonkees:
does the catholic faith acknowledge the bible as its source of truth? Or are there any other things added/taken away from it?

you never answered my question

victim · 09-20-2003, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Titan:
We can't let it die until it accepts Jesus as it's saviour; we want this thread to go to heaven of course.

It was inevitable, but it was hilarious. Nice work, Titan.

I don't think I want to get too involved with this argument at this point, as the battle lines have already been drawn, and all of you are too stalwart to listen and reason anymore. I'm not going to waste my time and start pushing if none of you are willing to budge.

Pliedes · 09-20-2003, 05:06 AM

I'm always willing to change my mind, the reasoning just has to be there.

Please don't deny us your thoughts victim. I say that seriously.

silver and cold · 09-22-2003, 08:14 PM

I'll listen to what you have to say, victim.
And I'll even try to be open minded about it!

Titan · 09-22-2003, 08:28 PM

I won't. Fuck open-mindedness, that only makes you smarter. Who wants to be smarter? That's right, nobody (that's quite apparent these days).

victim · 09-22-2003, 09:05 PM

Erm. Thanks. I'll see what I can do when I can muster the time. I've got a large load of writing to do right now as is, and I really don't want to add much more... my current Nubblies endeavor is to complete my short story. Incidentally, it has some religious undertones that will probably piss off a few of you.

09-19-2003, 01:09 AM	#152 (permalink)
BrassMonkees Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: winona lake Posts: 840 Internets: 10	riddle me this schreoder, does the catholic faith acknowledge the bible as its source of truth? Or are there any other things added/taken away from it?
	neither here nor there...

09-19-2003, 01:11 AM	#154 (permalink)
Titan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,698 Internets: 10	Due to extenuating circumstances that you don't want to know about and I don't want to tell you about, I, unfortunately, will not be participating in further conversation on this whole deal. I'm sorry if that flicks your trigger in the wrong direction. I've enjoyed this, thanks (I mean that). [ September 18, 2003, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Titan ]
	I do what the fuck I want.

09-19-2003, 12:04 PM	#158 (permalink)
Titan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,698 Internets: 10	We can't let it die until it accepts Jesus as it's saviour; we want this thread to go to heaven of course.
	I do what the fuck I want.

09-22-2003, 08:14 PM	#168 (permalink)
silver and cold Ish... Join Date: May 2003 Location: this nowhere Posts: 1,680 Internets: 10	I'll listen to what you have to say, victim. And I'll even try to be open minded about it!
	the killer in me is the killer in you.

09-22-2003, 08:28 PM	#169 (permalink)
Titan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,698 Internets: 10	I won't. Fuck open-mindedness, that only makes you smarter. Who wants to be smarter? That's right, nobody (that's quite apparent these days).
	I do what the fuck I want.

09-19-2003, 12:58 AM	#151 (permalink)
Schroeder Unwanted Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,543 Internets: -885	Catholics do not pray to Mary as if she were God. Prayer to Mary is memory of the great mysteries of our faith (Incarnation, Redemption through Christ in the rosary), praise to God for the wonderful things he has done in and through one of his creatures (Hail Mary) and intercession (second half of the Hail Mary). The latter is addressed to Mary not as to a vending machine but a support person helping us to discern the will of God in our lives. Mary is a volunteer, highly recommendable and recommended, but not a mandatory and inescapable passage. So, yes, Pliedes, we do pray to Mary (and all the other saints) but God is always the most important. Certain saints are known for certain help, so you pray to them specifically. Some of these are very old but help to keep each Catholic's faith high. An example of this would be when some Catholic's either place a statue or bury a statue (I can't remember which) of Saint Peter? in their front yard when they are trying to sell their house. Some people say that the Catholic church is very reminiscient of a cult but all the things we do we can back up with scripture, as most churches can. I'm finding out quickly that there is a wealth of information to be found about any religion under the sun, including Catholicism. Unfortunately, there is also a vast amount of anti-religion stuff out there. I typed in Anti-Catholic papers and found about 5,130 results. Some people can't be happy with just living their religion and letting other people live theirs. They have to go out and bash other religions and try to prove that theirs is the best. This is actually the complete opposite of what they are told. Most religions are taught to be accepting of differences but some people would go so far as that they don't have to accept other religions like Jews or Catholics. How hypocritical is that? If someone is all about hate, than there is no religion for them. [ September 18, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Schroeder ]

09-19-2003, 01:10 AM	#153 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	So, is salvation through Jesus Christ the one and only way to heaven?

09-19-2003, 04:36 AM	#157 (permalink)
StDx Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: right behind you Posts: 931 Internets: 306	Christ, can we just let this die? No one here is going to prove or disprove anyone else's religion so let it go.

09-19-2003, 02:09 PM	#160 (permalink)
Schroeder Unwanted Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,543 Internets: -885	No, Catholics believe in Purgatory because of this passage: 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 is the key passage that has been used by Catholics in support of Purgatory: "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (KJV) This passage, of course, can be argued either way for or against the idea of Purgatory. However, BDH, do you ever pray for family members that have died or people that you know that have died?

09-19-2003, 03:28 PM	#161 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	I know I don't pray for dead family members, you know why? They're dead. Their fate has already been decieded. Remember, sure. Honor, sure. But pray for them? Tis useless. You think Jesus would've mentioned something as important as purgatory by name.

09-19-2003, 04:13 PM	#162 (permalink)
Schroeder Unwanted Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,543 Internets: -885	Yeah, well, if everything was crystal clear in the bible, all Christians would have the same religion, and not all this quibbling.

09-19-2003, 04:27 PM	#163 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	Quibbling? We're all asking serious religous questions.

09-19-2003, 08:34 PM	#164 (permalink)
Schroeder Unwanted Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,543 Internets: -885	Okay then, if the bible was crystal clear about everything, there wouldn't be any serious religous questions to ask. All the questions would be set in stone with one definitive answer. But how boring would that be?

09-20-2003, 05:06 AM	#167 (permalink)
Pliedes Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 4,594 Internets: 1608	I'm always willing to change my mind, the reasoning just has to be there. Please don't deny us your thoughts victim. I say that seriously.

09-22-2003, 09:05 PM	#170 (permalink)
victim Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 985 Internets: 10	Erm. Thanks. I'll see what I can do when I can muster the time. I've got a large load of writing to do right now as is, and I really don't want to add much more... my current Nubblies endeavor is to complete my short story. Incidentally, it has some religious undertones that will probably piss off a few of you.
	get off my internet!!!