It is safe to say...

[Niger Angelus]

...the Irish have proven themselves as a contention team this year. If things would have gone a little differently they would have been USC's strike of midnight.

[victim]

We were halfway to the damn field...

That game was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen, even with the loss. We're going to see National Championships and Heismans in the next couple years.

[buckeye]

Originally posted by Niger Angelus:
...the Irish have proven themselves as a contention team this year. If things would have gone a little differently they would have been USC's strike of midnight.

yeah but those little things are exactly what seperate the contention teams from the motorcity.com bowl teams. Think purdue football last year.

Also I wouldnt even remotely consider any team that thinks its necessary to have 5 inch grass on its field a contention team. What self respecting team would do this? surely not a team with the tradition and class of ND.

[buckeye]

Originally posted by victim:
We're going to see National Championships and Heismans in the next couple years.

I do agree with this though, Weiss is a very, very good football coach.

[Beebs]

Originally posted by buckeye:
Also I wouldnt even remotely consider any team that thinks its necessary to have 5 inch grass on its field a contention team. What self respecting team would do this? surely not a team with the tradition and class of ND.

I don't understand the hating on the grass? Some of the best games of all time have been played on that grass, including yesterday, and I haven't heard complaints about it, at least everybody is doing away with astro turf. Field turf is ok i guess, but football is ment to be played on grass, and teams that don't are only hurting themselves when they play an away game on real grass (see the colts).

But back to the topic, this was probably the most painfull sports event as a fan I've seen, worse than the BC game or Tyson-Douglas since I was too young to really understand the magnitude of those.

Notre Dame can still possibly get a BCS bowl this year, and will have the core of the team back next year. BTW, that MSU fuck up yesterday was nuts.

[buckeye]

Originally posted by Beebs:
I don't understand the hating on the grass?

There is nothing wrong with having grass as your field turf, many schools do this. However, letting your grass intentionally grow long to slow down your opponent and try to level the playing field is cheap, dirty and utterly pathetic.

Weaker teams in the big ten used to do this all the time to Ohio State (MSU, Purdue, Iowa, etc) back in the Woody Hayes era to try and slow down the Ohio State offense.

Longer grass accomplishes this by making it harder to cut, plant, and accelerate, essentially nullifying many of the advantages a superior visiting opponent would have in their skill position. Throw in the increased injury risk factor, and you can see as to why I find what Notre Dame did with its field appalling.

Maybe when Notre Dame leaves it up to their recruiting coordinators, and not their grounds crew to level the playing field will they find more success on the football field.

[buckeye]

Originally posted by Beebs:

Notre Dame can still possibly get a BCS bowl this year, and will have the core of the team back next year. BTW, that MSU fuck up yesterday was nuts.

If they can beat Tennessee, ND should be a lock for the fiesta bowl. Which given UT's inconsistent offense shouldnt present a huge challenge.

On the MSU game, yeah we needed that one, after turning the ball over to them 4 times they owed us one.

[Beebs]

The grass was not that long, and ND would be just as hurt as usc by slowing down people, with walker, stoval, zibikowski, et al.

Even if the grass actually did slow people down significantly, which it doesnt, the slowed down fast people would still be faster than the slowed down slow people. Or does this magic grass only slow town fast people? NCAA officials were there, if they felt the grass was unkempt, they would say something.

Is slightly shorter than normal grass somehow morally superior than slightly taller? Both teams have to play in the same conditions, and the grass was not that tall, I've yet to hear anybody else complain about the damn grass, it's just hating.

Edit: Longer grass would probably be softer, and more forgiving thereby reducing injuries.

[ October 16, 2005, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: Beebs ]

It's still to ND's advantage - similar to how the Broncos have an advantage via thinner air.

[Beebs]

No, the air is always thin in Denver, ND supposedly grew the grass extra long specifically for this game. Plus the Broncos don't have any significant advantage at home in terms of record compared to any other team.

[Mr. Blonde]

GRASS GRASS BLAH BLAH LOUD NOISES

[buckeye]

Originally posted by Beebs:
The grass was not that long, and ND would be just as hurt as usc by slowing down people, with walker, stoval, zibikowski, et al.

I've been to college football games at Ohio State, Purdue, and Florida. Ive never seen grass that long, that shit was swaying with the wind. I mean if it wasnt a big deal why would ESPN College Gameday bother to remove a chunk of it to show on TV? They obviously weren't demonstrating how short it was.

This quote right here is direct from www.si.com written by stewart mandel

"By the way, you may have heard about the unusually tall grass for the Notre Dame-USC game. I stood on it, and I can tell you, if it was your backyard, the Homeowners Association would send you a citation"

So beebs, not only does the grass appear to be short, but many people such as you failed to take notice.

Rather than focus this argument on the exact effects of long grass on a players ability, since i subsequently cant prove this with any amount of data other than to point out games of past that yielded upsets and had this practice employed. So lets refocus the argument, and get to my original point.

This practice has been going on for years, and its a common perception, true or not, among coaches, players, fans and most sportswriters that this "tactic" of growing out grass is a equalizer of speed and talent, ands lends to increased injuries. More importantly this is viewed in a light that garners no respect, and as seen as "unsportsmanlike." It would be naive to say this is something Charlie or Notre Dame doesn’t know about as im sure teams have done this to them also, so it begs the most inherently obvious question. Why would they let it grow out knowing the affects it potentially has, and the associated disrespect that comes with it?

[Beebs]

I'm not saying it wasn't high, but it wasn't game changing high, watch the game. There is no standard for grass height, and it is left to the home team, nobody from USC complained that I am aware of. I simply don't find growing grass long to be unethical, nothing about the game of football requires the grass to be kept any shorter than it was saturday...hell, it doesn't even require real grass.

I don't care if Charlie did know or not, Weis is the kind of guy that would dump Pete Carroll in the St Joe river to beat SC, although hopefully he wont ever....say, punch an opposing player in the face, or give his athletes bullshit summer jobs.

[SittinOnDubsWGW]

I think that the grass "arguement" is quite possibly one the dumbest things ever.

As stated above, both teams are playing on the same surface.

[f3lix]

it's similar to New England slopping up their field for the Colts last year.

[BigDongedHoe]

There are only two teams I regularly root against in college athletics. Those two would be Purdue and Notre Dame. I absolutely hate Notre Dame in every way almost moreso than Purdue. Notre Dame has some of the most classless, arrogant, son of a bitch fans you will meet. They put themself on a high horse every fucking year and continue to disapoint year in and year out. I am so happy they lost this game, it really pleased me.

I will say I think Charlie Weis is a great football coach and that scares me that there is a sliver of a chance ND might "return to glory" (only douchebag ND fans could think of a phrase as catchy as that).

As for the game well hell what else can you say. It definitely ranked up there as one of the best games I've ever seen. The best part was watching the Irish fans sit in shock after USC won the game.

Hey Notre Dame: FUCK YOU!

[ October 17, 2005, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: BigDongedHoe ]

[Beebs]

Wah Wah Wah hater

[Niger Angelus]

They are now ranked #16, fucking 16!!! Are you kidding me? They beat the number 1 team in the country and you are telling me they are 16?

[SittinOnDubsWGW]

Originally posted by Niger Angelus:
They are now ranked #16, fucking 16!!! Are you kidding me? They beat the number 1 team in the country and you are telling me they are 16?

ummmmm, USC 34 ND 31

ND has 2 losses, thats huge in college football.

[Niger Angelus]

Oh, no, they won dammit. I am writing my congresman.

[BigDongedHoe]

Originally posted by Beebs:
Wah Wah Wah hater

Need I say anymore??

[Beebs]