Where I've been if anybody cares

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Heaven Can Wait

completely disagree, medication does not help.
If anything it can make things worse "I'm a loser who can't cope and take pills to help"
If there's ever a time for an ego boost, it's when you're depressed, I don't think medication helps self esteem

depression IS a disease. you can't just will your way out of cancer or an infection dude. medication helps treat diseases. period.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Who are you, Tom fucking Cruise? Depression has only existed for 25 years? I can see there is no point in continuing this conversation.

[Beebs]

Well the brain has chemicals that control mental states, serotonin being one, SSRI's which I was on for a while, definatly helped by keeping the proper amount of serotonin in the brain.

Does it "cure" it? Well thats hard to say, it certainly changes the chemical function of the brain in a good way if something isn't working properly. It helps "cure" the physical aspects. They aren't quite like normal drugs as an even supply of them remains in your blood, and they selectively contronl the serotonin, not just pump the brain full of it and then be "hungover" once the one pill wheres off, its about keeping a consistant level rather than say taking tylenol just when you have a headache.

They allowed me to get on my feet and out of such a self perpetuating cycle, then I came off them once I had my shit together a little more, so to speak.

I was seeing a counseler, that was by far the biggest help, but it was also the hardest part to start, but he couldn't write scripts as he was doing his residency, so I had to go to another place for perscriptions, giving me something for anxiety was discussed, but I was a little hesitant as it would probably be something I would be prone to abuse at the time, but thats still an option thats on the table in the future, although now that I'm out of the sitution I was in I don't have as much trouble with anxiety.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

It's just weird to me because Beebs never struck me as the "type" to suffer from anxiety.

Me either, which is why I just kept avoiding it, pretending that it was totally normall to miss weeks of class at a time and stay up till sunrise half the time.

Basically I had learned to cope with it and hide it, but eventually I got so fucked academically I couldn't hide things anymore, and I had more and more things to actually worry about on top of my irrational anxiety people finally made me go get help, which I can't stress enough is a great thing to do if you have something going on.

[Ironic Mustache]

Yikes it's the blind leading the blind around here. Depression and anxiety are disorders. Medications like prozac enhance the seratonin levels not by actually increasing them but by aiding the existing seratonin so that it's used a bit more efficiently. It's basically a sciency way to make you feel better. It does make a lot of people feel better, but it's the equivalent to taking a bunch of pain killers for an infected wound. More often than not, though you feel better now, until you fix the actual problem, it's just eventually going to get worse.

GOOD therapy where the patient actually attends all of the sessions and doesn't keep things from the therapist or lie to them, is a much better long term solution. I would definitely say it's not a bad thing to start off with medication while seeing a therapist, and as the source of the problem is revealed and eliminated, eventually dropping it.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ironic Mustache

Yikes it's the blind leading the blind around here. Depression and anxiety are disorders. Medications like prozac enhance the seratonin levels not by actually increasing them but by aiding the existing seratonin so that it's used a bit more efficiently. It's basically a sciency way to make you feel better. It does make a lot of people feel better, but it's the equivalent to taking a bunch of pain killers for an infected wound. More often than not, though you feel better now, until you fix the actual problem, it's just eventually going to get worse.

Thats just not accurate, the very name Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, tells you what they do, they increase the amount of Serotonin by inhibiting the reuptake selectively; what that means is more is left in the brain to be used, but since it is only selectively inhibiting the reuptake, the level does not get higher than it should; it keeps the level being used within a regular range.

The painkiller analogy isn't really right, as for some people their brains simply won't ever produce enough serotonin on their own, so there is "fixing" it beyond a way to keep that level at the proper amount. Not all depression comes from some "problem" other than simple brain operation, just like any other mental disorder, it is a biochemical problem.

In my experience once I allowed the few weeks for them to start working, I was able to feel better for a while.

[Heaven Can Wait]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

Who are you, Tom fucking Cruise? Depression has only existed for 25 years? I can see there is no point in continuing this conversation.

No one over 30+ years ago knew of the term, its a new disorder that no one knows a lot about.
I took prozac for a while about a year ago.
Go research it, it does jack shit.

Blonde, take a look at what a disease is, are you seriously comparing cancer to depression? I'm gonna do one of your famous caps lock sentances DEPRESSION IS NOT A DISEASE IT IS A DISORDER

Ironic almost nailed it, If something is making you depressed, medication will not make it go away, they are cutting prozac right down because it isn't doing any better than placebo's

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Heaven Can Wait

Blonde, take a look at what a disease is, are you seriously comparing cancer to depression? I'm gonna do one of your famous caps lock sentances DEPRESSION IS NOT A DISEASE IT IS A DISORDER

Yeah, my bad, that's what i meant. I get my d's switched around from time to time. But i'm still holding to that medication helps a lot of people exponentially. Maybe not all (you).

Did you have a bad experience with Prozac? Did....did he touch you?

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

The term maybe, but the disorder has existed throughout history. Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Emily Dickinson, van gogh etc... I'm well of the recent inflated results of what current anti-depressants can do but saying they don't do jack shit is a harsh overstatement.

Also IM is right, it doesn't create more serotonin in the brain it inhibits reuptake so serotonin stays in the synapses longer.

[Heaven Can Wait]

I understand that, what i'm trying to get at is that I don't believe we have enough knowledge of the brain to know exactly whats going on, prozac is a big deal with people who don't.. believe? in depression.
some anti-depressants probably work, but I honestly believe that their effectiveness is limited, the idea of sitting at home popping pills to get over something.. im sure more chemicals are released with being around people.
with the vast amount of chemicals floating around in the brain, no one knows (And thats not an excuse to not experiment, im all for furthering science)

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Heaven Can Wait

N
Ironic almost nailed it, If something is making you depressed, medication will not make it go away, they are cutting prozac right down because it isn't doing any better than placebo's

Things don't make you depressed, they make you sad, there is a difference. There is no root cause for most depression beyond chemistry. Clinical depression is not being sad, they are two entirely different ideas that you are intermixing. Epilepsy, things like that, are chemical disorders in the brain, not thought processes.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Heaven Can Wait

I understand that, what i'm trying to get at is that I don't believe we have enough knowledge of the brain to know exactly whats going on, prozac is a big deal with people who don't.. believe? in depression.
some anti-depressants probably work, but I honestly believe that their effectiveness is limited, the idea of sitting at home popping pills to get over something.. im sure more chemicals are released with being around people.
with the vast amount of chemicals floating around in the brain, no one knows (And thats not an excuse to not experiment, im all for furthering science)

You simply aren't getting the picutre, sometimes the basic chemistry of the brain is just not right. There is nothing to "get over" there is no event that caused it, there is no trauma waiting to be dealt with, there is simply a malfunctioning body organ.

A schizophrenic or epileptics brain will not get better on its own, just as a clinically depressed persons brain won't.

You are mixing up being sad with clinical depression, they are not the same; you would be right if you were talking about being sad, but you are not.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Beebs

A schizophrenic or epileptics brain will not get better on its own, just as a clinically depressed persons brain won't.

This was pry a better example than cancer and more of what I was going for. I WAS LATE FOR WORK.

[Heaven Can Wait]

I understand that, but sad things also spark depression, i've been pretty depressed for the past 5 years, which sad events make a lot worse, But I don't believe the chemicals do shit.
If you want to believe that a pill is gonna sort your life out, thats fine, but science doesn't agree.
The whole 'basic chemistry is not right' No one knows, I only know a little about prozac, and nothing of any other anti-depressant, so feel free to prove me wrong.
Oh, and epilepsy, time can heal it, my mom used to faint and shit all the time, now she hasn't had anything for years.

Edit : Epilepsy is usually controlled, but not cured, with medication, although surgery may be considered in difficult cases. However, over 30% of people with epilepsy do not have seizure control even with the best available medications [5][6]. Not all epilepsy syndromes are lifelong – some forms are confined to particular stages of childhood.


Sez || says:
ah, technically beebs is wrong, things can make you depressed.. reactive depression, and that can lead to clinical depression, you're all stupid.

Point being, its not that simple.

[Beebs]

You don't believe chemicals do shit, therefore theres no point in further discussion, because you are being completely and totally unreasonable. Its just running around in circles if you are unwilling to believe basic understanding of the brain.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

If chemicals don't do shit how come when I snort cocain it uplifts my mood and energizes me? Why does LSD make me see pink elephants?

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Beebs

what that means is more is left in the brain to be used, but since it is only selectively inhibiting the reuptake, the level does not get higher than it should; it keeps the level being used within a regular range.

I meant there is not an overall increased level of seratonin, it is just being used correctly, i.e. efficiently.

Originally Posted by Beebs

The painkiller analogy isn't really right, as for some people their brains simply won't ever produce enough serotonin on their own, so there is "fixing" it beyond a way to keep that level at the proper amount. Not all depression comes from some "problem" other than simple brain operation, just like any other mental disorder, it is a biochemical problem.

Oh my god I didn't say EVERYONE, I used terms like "more often than not," and "a lot of people." Which is true. The people you're talking about are in the minority.

Originally Posted by Beebs

In my experience once I allowed the few weeks for them to start working, I was able to feel better for a while.

Painkillers.

[Heaven Can Wait]

Thats not what im saying, i'm so fucking pro science and chemicals.
I'm saying that the brain is a complex thing, that we do not fully understand.
I'm also saying that raising the level of one chemical will not change your life, there are lots of chemicals that make you happy, and prozac alone (apologies for focusing on prozac) will not solve a problem.
I think you are being unreasonable by coming out with a bullshit statement, all im asking is the explore the scientific basis and knowledge of the brain, which will conclude that prozac barely competes with sugar pills.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Unlike these other assholes, I'm not going to pretend like I know what any of this really is. All I'm going to say is I'm glad you're doing better now.

[Mr. Blonde]

awwwww

[Repugnant Abomination]

I wish Blonde suffered from depression and anxiety.

[Repugnant Abomination]

And AIDS.

[Ironic Mustache]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

And AIDS.

If Blonde has AIDS, then I have AIDS, which means you have AIDS.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

I wish Blonde suffered from depression and anxiety.

I do. Well not lately. I usually try and come off my meds when i'm feeling pretty good about once a year, only to result in a debilitating mental crash. This stint of no medication has been going pretty well so far. Maybe i'm cured.

[vaga1220 *]

Lots of disorders get labeled as diseases so the FDA can get more control, because officially only a drug can diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If a company had a product that could do any of that and they wanted to sell it and advertise it as such they would need to get some sort of drug license from the FDA which costs something like 12 billion dollars.

Anyway none of that really has anything to do with this thread, and I don't actually know what I'm talking about I just wanted to sound like I did.