McNabb

[Ugly Bastard]

God you guys are fucking idiots. I can't believe we have a thread with a bunch of white boys whining about how blacks have more advantages in sports. Good fucking God.

BTW Chad: you must have a much different definition of "discrimination" than I do if you think it can exist in a FREEEEEE market.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Seriously.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

Jesus Christ, Beebs, nice to see your racisism on full display, it's quite breathtaking.

Let me get this straight...Your logic is that since the majority of the US population is white, and the majority of athletes are black, that whites are discriminated againsts? lol Give me a fucking break. That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, if I'm understanding you correctly. I guess America is so ashamed of slavery that rather than putting together a winning team, teams just put blacks in their jersey's because it's much politically sensative? Tell me I'm misunderstanding your position...

How the fuck is this rascist? The opposite happens in hockey and in wrestling, when blacks actually are given a fair chance, they represent themselves in a way that is similar to the level of participation, which is just now starting to happen.

In any sport without barriers to any particular race, the races will be represented in a similar fashion at the top tier to their participation.

Unlike in almost all other sports where participation numbers almost invariably represent top tier numbers, there is a huge disparity between participation and top tier level in football.

I can't offer an explanation as to why really, but there is clearly a disparity between what is currently happening in the NFL and what is happening in almost every sport with any sort of significant world participation. Maybe the issue is the fact that Football is almost entirely a US sport.

Will anybody disagree that there is a disparity between the number of whites participating in football, and the number represented in the NFL?

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

God you guys are fucking idiots. I can't believe we have a thread with a bunch of white boys whining about how blacks have more advantages in sports. Good fucking God.

BTW Chad: you must have a much different definition of "discrimination" than I do if you think it can exist in a FREEEEEE market.

The job market was free in the 50's, did job discrimination not exist, was it all a hoax and blacks were treated totally fairly since the market was free? Were better qualified black people not passed over, at the expense of greater profits, simply because they were black? Did that not happen?

Your logic that discrimination can't exist in a free market is just dumb.

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by Beebs

Your logic that discrimination can't exist in a free market is just dumb.

I know you're smart enough to see the irony here.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

I know you're smart enough to see the irony here.

Discrimination is a flaw that free and effecient markets eventually correct, but that does not mean they do not happen. Free markets always correct themselves, but not instantaneously.

There is a disparity between representation of white players in football compared to the representation in the NFL I can't see how anybody can deny this, other sports have had the same situation with other races, they corrected themselves as the NFL will, but it still existed.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally Posted by Beebs

Also, white kids are engrained with this stupid sense of "black kids are more athletic" which is drilled into them by society and the sporting media and are therefore less likely to try out for wideout and runningback.

At the same logic token, more white quarterbacks are "groomed" than blacks.

Originally Posted by Beebs

In reality, there is not a single white cornerback in the nfl, not a single fucking one.

Brandon stokley, Wes Welker, so throw that postulate out

By the way, black kids ARE more athletic than white kids in my opinion. just look around.

[Cocktooth]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

Brandon stokley, Wes Welker, so throw that postulate out

Wow. You know 2 white NFL players. Maybe you should also know that they aren't cornerbacks. Those 2 would be slot WR. The spot reserved for a TOKEN white guy.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

At the same logic token, more white quarterbacks are "groomed" than blacks.

Brandon stokley, Wes Welker, so throw that postulate out

By the way, black kids ARE more athletic than white kids in my opinion. just look around.

1. No, I'd say at this day and age, the number is about where it should be to the proportion of players. Offensive lineman definiately though.

2. Do you know what a cornerback is? These two just prove my point, if they are athletic enough to be very good wide recievers, why is there not one single white cornerback on an nfl depth chart?

3. You're brainwashed, look at the olympics.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Originally Posted by Beebs

1. No, I'd say at this day and age, the number is about where it should be to the proportion of players.

ROFL, what makes you in charge of what the appropriate proportion of the ethnicity of players is?

2. yes i know what a cornerback is, as i went to bed this morning i realized my mistake but i was so tired i couln't get out of bed to edit my post.

3. Beebs, do you even watch the olympics? I am looking at the olympics. who wins all the sprinting? Blacks. The nigs sweep that shit in BOTH the 100 and 200 meter dash. What does a cornerback do every play? he sprints.

The answer to your point that most countries don't have their teams stacked with niggers is obvious. The US has the largest population of blacks second only to African countries. Our team stacked with blacks is why we DOMINATE track and field events. Who else does well in the olympics in the Athletics group? African countries. The fact that white people are dominating in Curling or gymnastics doesn't translate well into football talent.

[Cocktooth]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

3. Beebs, do you even watch the olympics? I am looking at the olympics. who wins all the sprinting? Blacks. The nigs sweep that shit in BOTH the 100 and 200 meter dash. What does a cornerback do every play? he sprints.

.

Last time I checked, Cornerbacks backpeddle, then move side to side. The only time they sprint is when a WR beats them in a deep route. Agility is the key attribute of any CB. Sprinting is for WR's. You obvioulsy have no idea in regards to sports. If anyone was listening to ESPN Radio last night around 9:15, I actually let my feelings be known to Freddy Coleman who was speachless afterwards. I was hammered and explained to him that all downfalls for the African American commutity isn't about racism. I still feel good about myself!!!

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

a cornerback sprints every play if hes covering a receiver

he was probably speechless because he was speaking to the epitome of drunken, belligerent, racist, white trash.

[Ugly Bastard]

LOL Shaw. I would love to hear an audio file of that radio segment.

[Cocktooth]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

a cornerback sprints every play if hes covering a receiver

he was probably speechless because he was speaking to the epitome of drunken, belligerent, racist, white trash.

Every play huh?? Including a FB dive? Or how about a slant route? Your a fucking moron. CB sprint rarely. And that is probably why he was speechless. Go Whitey

[f3lix]

Originally Posted by Shaw

Your a fucking moron.

This line just never stops amusing me.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Shaw, do you know what a sprint is? It doesn't matter how far it is, its a burst to full speed from a lower speed. In the situation your talking about, when a cornerback makes a read, he sprints to either the path of the trajectory of the ball or to the receiver its intended for. He doesn't back peddle or walk like a crab to make a tackle. Just because you can think of a few situations in which a cornerback doesn't have to sprint, doesn't mean he that he doesn't need to have the ability to sprint to be a cornerback.

Can you at least agree that MOST of the time a cornerback has to sprint when he is involved in the play?

This is probably the stupidest argument I've ever been a part of, can someone help me out here? Throw me a fucking bone?

[Beebs]

Is the white CB gone for good?
Mark Kriegel
FOXSports.com, Updated 8 hours ago STORY TOOLS:

A week removed from Donovan McNabb's remarks about black quarterbacks, the nation prepares for another weekend of pro football, a game segregated by position.

For the sake of argument, consider the rule, and not the exception. Kickers and punters are white. Running backs (excluding the "throwback" blocking types) are black. Receivers are mostly black. Quarterbacks, as McNabb noted, remain predominantly white.
Still, a single black quarterback would be one more than the number of starting white cornerbacks.

"I may have been the last," says Jason Sehorn, who retired four years ago.

The last ever, he means. Sehorn, whose nickname among the Giants was "Species," now wonders if white cornerbacks are themselves extinct.

"Like the dinosaur," he says.

Then again, if in fact the white cornerback is a dead species, it wouldn't bother Sehorn too much. It is not, at least in his mind, a civil rights question.

"Being the last doesn't mean anything," he says. "It's not like being the first. It's not like I was a pioneer."

Sehorn, now an analyst for FOX Sports Net, considers black quarterbacks like James Harris and Doug Williams among the game's pioneers. He's more ambivalent on the subject of McNabb, who recently told HBO's James Brown that black quarterbacks "have to do a little extra" and that their white counterparts "don't get criticized as much as we do."

"As a journalist," says Sehorn, "the first thing I thought was, 'It's not the color of your skin. It's the city you play in.'"

Philadelphia, where it is brotherly to loathe, has the most notorious fans in America. Long before booing McNabb, they booed Santa Claus and Mike Schmidt. Sehorn — who notes that black quarterbacks have been drafted with the first pick in two of the last six NFL drafts (should've been three if the Texans had the sense to draft Vince Young) — ventures an educated guess that McNabb's comments are rooted in frustration, the voice of a man telling himself: "You take all this crap, and for what?"

"We played the Eagles twice a year and they never had a great wide receiver," says Sehorn. "But the one year they give him a great wide receiver — even if he was a malcontent — he gets them to the Super Bowl. And then what?"

Then he gets booed.

Still, as former player, there's something in Sehorn that feels obligated to qualify his answer.

"I've never been in McNabb's shoes," he says.

Translation: I've never been a black quarterback.

He has, however, been a white cornerback. And one can't help but wonder why the very idea has become such an anomaly. How many white kids from junior high through college were down-shifted, as it were, from corner to safety and from safety to linebacker in anticipation of a career at the next level?

Like most questions involving race and sports, these may be impossible to answer, but nevertheless worth asking. White cornerbacks lack the same historical baggage black quarterbacks have to carry, but by the same token, is there not a presumption against them? Didn't Jason Sehorn have to do "a little extra" to prove himself?

"No," he says.

His answer comes as something of a surprise. For a guy who grew up dirt poor without a father, Sehorn is devout in his belief that one should make his own breaks. It may sound naïve, but he considers professional football a meritocracy.

"I truly believe the best people play," he says. "No matter what color they are."

Sehorn played safety through his junior year at USC, and was projected as a safety when drafted by the Giants. He played two preseason games at the strong side position. By his own account, he was "awful." He was also bored.

"Sitting around doing nothing," he says. "It was mundane."

Finally, defensive coordinator Mike Nolan asked: "What do you feel most comfortable doing?"

"Playing corner," he said.

He believed he was a cornerback. And that's how he made his career, six years as a starter, the last white corner of any consequence since Atlanta's Scott Case back in the '80s. If a single play could illustrate Sehorn's virtues as an athlete, it would be his interception of McNabb in a playoff game on Jan. 7, 2001.

From Bill Pennington's story in the New York Times: "As McNabb let go of the ball, Sehorn, who had been retreating in coverage, broke forward and dived for the pass a few feet in front of (Torrance) Small. Sehorn got his hands on the ball, but he fell to the ground, rolling onto his back as he bobbled the ball. Lying on the grass and looking up, Sehorn batted the ball in the air, then caught it with two hands even as he was rising to run the other way.


"With the ball tucked under his arm, Sehorn quickly made a move to elude a Philadelphia lineman, then outraced McNabb to the corner of the end zone."

"I've never seen an interception like that," said Jim Fassel, the Giants coach.

"It was instinct," Sehorn said after the game.

Instinct? According to the ever-prevailing stereotypes, such instinct and athleticism is precisely what's lacking in so many white players.

Sehorn doesn't doubt that a form of prejudice, however benign, results in some white high school kids being steered away from positions like cornerback. Then again, part of the problem has to be the kids themselves.

"Some people are like sheep," he says.

You can't be a running back unless you believe you're a running back. Same goes for cornerbacks and quarterbacks.

"You have to believe in yourself," says Sehorn. "You have to believe that you can be the anomaly."

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by Beebs

A week removed from Donovan McNabb's remarks about black quarterbacks, the nation prepares for another weekend of pro football, a game segregated by position.

LOL. Beebs, I can't believe you actually buy into this sensationalized bullshit.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

LOL. Beebs, I can't believe you actually buy into this sensationalized bullshit.

Well the guys obviously just making an outlandish statement to get the readers attention.

Do you really not think there is some sort of dissuation from white players playing skill positions in the NFL, even if its just some subconscious level? It certainly has happened and probably is still happening in other sports.

I picture you as somebody who understands the law of large numbers, so I don't see how you can see this as just a coincidence.

And I don't buy the argument that certain sports are for certain races, groups of people, be they races or countries, become good at certain sports through heavy participation, genetic differences don't really play that big of a factor. I'll use China and Bulgaria as an example, both countries are quite different in terms of assumed athletic traits, but both have great olympic weightlifting teams, not because there is anything special about their genes, but because they both have huge rates of participation and two incredibly intense yet different training regimens.

Or look at Mark Henry, probably the strongest American since Bill Kazmirer, and black guy, he was our best hope at the time in both powerlifting, weightlifting, and strongman.

Heavyweight boxing to me is the best example of this; Larry Holmes, black HW champ in the 80s said, "If black fighters keep fighting like they are, there won't ever be a white heavyweight champion again." Which given that Holmes was treated like shit pretty much for being black I can understand he was pissed off. But, with the fall of the Soviet Union, fighters that had previously been prevented from pro fighting in favor of winning in Olympics, there are currently no black HW champs.

At the turn of the century with white champions from Sullivan to Jefferies, nobody thought there would ever be a black champ, then Jack Johnson dominated the division for years, then there was a period of all white champs from Willard, Dempsey, and Tunney to Max Baer and James Braddock of cinderalla man fame, then Joe Louis dominated the division for a long stretch,and was followed up by two more black champs in Charles and Walcott, nobody thought there would be another white champ, then Rocky Marciano shows up, after him and until the retirement of Lennox Lewis the HW scene was dominated by blacks, and now we have the current Eastern European dominance over the division.

Or look at the NBA, I don't think theres any inherent difference between the white american players and the white international players, but the white international players seem to be having much more success.

Long story short, I think its been pretty much proven that any percieved difference in raw athleticism between races is smaller in reality than in perception, and even given a difference, an exception to the rule always pops up, this isn't happening right now in the NFL.

[DJ FC]

There really shouldn't be an argument here. It's just a societal thing, and on the macro level it has a real effect that's all.

[Mr. Blonde]

And to think, i never looked at this thread cause i knew it was about football.

[DJ FC]

? But you did.

[Mr. Blonde]

before now*

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

Beebs you kinda remind me of girls who insist there is no difference in physical ability between girls and guys.

Sure humans' gene expression isn't quite as diverse as lets say breeds of dogs. But I think you vastly underestimate the effect of genes. Whites, blacks, and asians go back pretty far (relatively) where they split in the family tree of the human species. If certain races are susceptible to specific genetic diseases (read sickle cell) and average height and u don't think 100's of thousands of years of geographic separation can create measurable differences in metabolism, running speed, etc then you are off your rocker.

Let me clear something up, i'm not saying black people have more physical ability in general, but there are racial differences in certain physical attributes/potential ability in those attributes.

[Ugly Bastard]

Originally Posted by THEINCREDIBLEdork

Let me clear something up, i'm not saying black people have more physical ability in general

Well if you won't say it, then I will.