Debt Ceiling talks getting ugly

[f3lix]

Overseas labor is cheap. Smart businessmen use cheap labor. And the dems wonder why the job market sucks dick in USA when they've taxed the shit out businesses and sent all the labor overseas.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

I love how much the economy gets everyone into a frenzy. IT MUST CONTINUE GOING UP SO WE CAN ALL GO BUY MORE CHINESE PRODUCED CRAP ZOMG JUST KEEEEEP WORRRRKING!!!

As much as you may find the daily workings of the economy absurd and funny, for which there is certainly a valid case to make, but the long term big picture stuff does make a difference if it goes bad.

For an example, your daily life would be different, worse, if you were in Greece now compared to 5-10 years ago.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by f3lix

Overseas labor is cheap. Smart businessmen use cheap labor. And the dems wonder why the job market sucks dick in USA when they've taxed the shit out businesses and sent all the labor overseas.

Nothing related to your post particularly; but I love how we, and other cultures, describe pretty much every other country as "overseas". Forgetting that some of them are connected to us by land, the huge differences in places like, say Albania and Hong Kong; all "Overseas."

[ninjaface]

Originally Posted by f3lix

And the dems wonder why the job market sucks dick in USA when they've taxed the shit out businesses and sent all the labor overseas.

[angry pancake]

Debt crisis hasn't been the talk of the bankruptcy circles either. Well, not the US debt ceiling bullshit anyway. But the Mitchell case has everybody up in arms. And then maybe the Lake debt crisis. Go figure.

[angry pancake]

I'm getting the impression that anymore this is just entertainment and folk like f3lix are just cheering for their team regardless. It's sickening how both sides would just shootdown a good idea because the other side came up with it. A good idea is a good idea regardless of who comes up with it. I'm fucking sick of congress members apologizing to talk radio personalities for agreeing with the other side. It's bull shit and the united states should be a laughing stock.

[f3lix]

I cheer for freedom and nothing less.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by f3lix

Nice try on the hidden text. Unlike everybody else around here, I'm not suddenly an expert on credit default. The thread was created to discuss the talks getting ugly, not the actual results of the talks. This isn't a lawyer approach, as nothing has changed since my initial post.

Originally Posted by DDTempest

You said my claim was shit, so I asked you to explain a better scenario and you've failed to do so in any way at all ... instead you're tap-dancing around the question like its beneath you instead of admitting you might not know what the fuck you are talking about or taking a couple moments out of your busy lifestyle to provide an alternate scenario.

I've created a new thread for you to answer, since this thread has been derailed into tap-dancing.

[f3lix]

The market continues to not give a shit about this "crisis" despite CNN started a countdown on their TV station. What a joke.

[DJ FC]

It's because they found another way to deal with the debt issue. Apparently there is a bill already passed in both houses that can be amended with a temporary debt ceiling exemption.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by ninjaface

Who really pays when you tax a corporation? It's just a tax on shareholders and/or customers.

Out of curiosity I wonder what the change in ratio of number or corporations to number of people is over this time period.

[angry pancake]

Not true at all beebs. Just not true. In 2006 we made a tad under 17 million and distributed dividends. I paid taxes as an individual, the corporation didn't pay a cent. I've owed corporate taxes only once in the 10 or so years I've been an equity share holder. That time it was when it was a C corporation and that liability was passed through to me as an individual. Since going back to an S corporation the year after that, the corporation always finds a way to lose money or otherwise not pay. Never once has it been passed on to customers.

If my line if work ever implements a sales tax, and there's a strong movement to do so here, that will be passed on to customers 100%. I'm not sure the dumbasses here know how this will work. The supporters seems to think that it's a tax on attorneys, but that comes with living in Texas.

Incidentally, we do pay an occupational tax to the state once per year. And all of the interest generated on the trust accounts is taken by the state.

[DJ FC]

AP I don't think you follow what Beebs is saying. In fact you agreed with him.

[Repugnant Abomination]

If far-right conservatives can't listen to reason, maybe they will listen to Ronald Reagan.
Because Reagan had stern words for Congress when it tried to play political games with the debt ceiling in 1987. They still ring true today. Reagan offered this particular dose of common sense on September 26, 1987, in a national radio address. Here is the key part of the text:

"Unfortunately, Congress consistently brings the government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest markets would skyrocket. Instability would occur in financial markets and the federal deficit would soar.

"The United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for reliability and credibility -- two things that set us apart in much of the world."

Republican Jesus hath spoken.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/2...n.debt.reagan/

[f3lix]

Liberals only quote Ronald Reagan when it points out flaws in the current GOP.

[f3lix]

The simple answer is to just reduce spending. But that would be for the good of the American people and not fulfill reelection donations.

[Ugly Bastard]

Food for thought: how might America be different if we removed term-limits for the Presidency and even let the duties of the job be awarded indefinitely until the constituents reach some critical mass of demanding an election?

[f3lix]

We're still paying for having our only king (FDR)

[angry pancake]

Which FDR programs do you have a problem with? Could you be specific. Many people who bitch about FDR really mean LBJ.

[f3lix]

Reread the Reagan thread.

[angry pancake]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

AP I don't think you follow what Beebs is saying. In fact you agreed with him.

I follow beebs fine. That rambling I posted was hardly an agreement.

[Ugly Bastard]

Obama is really handling this debt ceiling thing terribly. His m.o. is urging everyone to call their Congressman (including blowing up Twitter today with a TONNN of Tweets to help you find your local Congressman on Twitter). I mean, really? He's basically saying, "I can't talk to these people. Can you do it for me?" Fuckin pansy ass Democrats. I want to like them, I really do, but they're so gd spineless on everything.

[angry pancake]

Originally Posted by f3lix

Reread the Reagan thread.

Originally Posted by f3lix

1. Lincoln
2. Washington
.
.
.
44. FDR

FDR fucked us so hard with entitlement programs, HUGE government, and removed the gold standard. Talk about short-term thinking voters.

Originally Posted by f3lix

FDR takes United States off gold standard — History.com This Day in History — 6/5/1933

Originally Posted by f3lix

If FDR had simply put a sunset clause on those laws, we'd be in an entirely different situation. Instead, he intentionally let them grow out of control. Via the legislation he signed, he was more socialistic than Obama.

Not even close, and there were sunset clauses. I was gonna let this pass, but you really didn't seem to know that not too many FDR programs are still around.

Originally Posted by f3lix

AP - you're dead wrong on everything you've said about my personal finances outside of the currently "unemployed" comment. That doesn't mean I'm still not generated a revenue through multiple other sources. This thread is a rarity in which I see you making bigoted comments.

Originally Posted by f3lix

To further my stance that, I'm "unemployed" and could file for unemployment benefits, but I do not believe it is the governments role to play Robin Hood and will not apply for it.

I'm not sure you could qualify for unemployment benefits. You actually needed to have a job and enough to pay into the system. Everybody pays into the system. It just doesn't show up on your pay stub or come out of your pocket. Your state rules may vary.

Originally Posted by f3lix

Roads are a user based tax (at least they started that way) through gas tax. I'd love for this to be the case with mostly everything in society.

Originally Posted by f3lix

The quality of that road is severely dependent on who runs and owns it.

One of the dumbest things we have going against us is the federal highway system. We need better production on I-69 between exits 5 and 0 (southbound) but have to wait years for our politicians to grease up the committee to get that accomplished. It's wasting years off the lives of the tens of thousands of motorists which use that stretch every day going to work.

It considered by many the best in the world. Blame Ike and Regan for it. They had the last two major programs that I can think of. Or credit them as some people do.

Originally Posted by f3lix

Why even make a statement like this? Big government is inefficient and is a suffocating financial hole from which countries rarely escape.

Originally Posted by f3lix

Government does some things right, but rarely ever thinks of the consequences of such action, because the politicians are more concerned about getting reelected and short term results.

Originally Posted by f3lix

Give DH some time to respond, as he'll need to ask his professor.

Originally Posted by f3lix

What do you believe he stood for?

There's every post you made in the Regan thread. And the only thing I think you can pin on FDR is the gold standard. And it's pretty clear that didn't get finished off until Nixon. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Really, the more you talk about FDR, the less it seems you know anything. In general terms you seem to be describing programs introduced under LBJ.

So what programs of FDR do you have a problem with? The Regan thread wasn't very helpful. Is it Social Security? TVA? FDIC? SEC? Which programs today are we still paying off?

EDIT: A few LBJ programs: Dramatic reform and expansion of social security, medicare, medicaid, legal aid, food stamps, head start, upward bound, OEO/EEOC, PBS (expanded under Nixon IIRC), expansion of the FDA, etc. FDR was no LBJ. How you have LBJ ahead of FDR in your Regan thread ranking based on the criteria that you've mentioned kind of shows how little you know about either of them.

[f3lix]

Social Security, Eliminating the gold standard, Agricultural Adjustment Act, and National Labor Rights Act are the ones that ruined America most (IMO), aside from FDR making federal government so powerful that states rights were essentially abolished.

[f3lix]

LOL

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