I propose that Reagan wasn't as cool as FC thinks he was.

[f3lix]

Roads are a user based tax (at least they started that way) through gas tax. I'd love for this to be the case with mostly everything in society.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by f3lix

Roads are a user based tax (at least they started that way) through gas tax. I'd love for this to be the case with mostly everything in society.

But roads are still built regardless of whether or not the user tax covers the cost or not ... ie a one mile stretch of country road with two houses on it, etc.

[f3lix]

The quality of that road is severely dependent on who runs and owns it.

One of the dumbest things we have going against us is the federal highway system. We need better production on I-69 between exits 5 and 0 (southbound) but have to wait years for our politicians to grease up the committee to get that accomplished. It's wasting years off the lives of the tens of thousands of motorists which use that stretch every day going to work.

[angry pancake]

I'm pretty sure that if a government worker could shit gold bullion bricks, f3lix would still argue that the private sector could do it better.

[f3lix]

Originally Posted by angry pancake

I'm pretty sure that if a government worker could shit gold bullion bricks, f3lix would still argue that the private sector could do it better.

Why even make a statement like this? Big government is inefficient and is a suffocating financial hole from which countries rarely escape.

[angry pancake]

Perhaps it's your blanket statements regarding how government can't do anything right. No matter what it may appear to be, you seem to think the private sector can do it, better, cheaper, and more efficiently. Whether or not that is the case. It's too broad of a brush to paint with. Your road example blames the guy who wrote the check for the shitty job a (mostly likely) private contractor did. Build your own road next time and refuse the money.

[f3lix]

Government does some things right, but rarely ever thinks of the consequences of such action, because the politicians are more concerned about getting reelected and short term results.

[angry pancake]

I can agree with that.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

Tax as a percent of GDP decreased under Reagan, not increased.

True, but misleading. Reagan increased taxes - the country's GDP just grew that much more. He also compromised with the loyal opposition. If he were around today he wouldn't meet the GOP's "purity" ideology.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

I agree with AP that Clinton will be looked back on as a good president (but maybe a sleazy person).

I think Clinton was incredibly cool as a person. I could do without a lot of his policies, and I think the bombing of Serbia was one of the biggest fuck-ups in terms of foreign aggresion our nation has ever committed.

Seriously, who wouldn't want to hang out with Clinton?


- Jimmy Carter is a total pussy in addition to being an idiot who thinks he is intelligent, which we all know is the worst kind of stupid
- HW Bush is annoying and far too much of a square; W is all reformed and born again, although outside of that he probably comes second place
-Obama always tries too hard to match his personality to the situation and blend in, plus a bit of a pussy.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

True, but misleading. Reagan increased taxes - the country's GDP just grew that much more. He also compromised with the loyal opposition. If he were around today he wouldn't meet the GOP's "purity" ideology.

You do have to consider that the GOP today is in the role of opposition party (for now), which moves the goalposts a decent amount in terms of your point.

[thekremlin]

The only way the above picture could have been better was if you were wearing a shirt and tie and Bill was showing off his tats. But that is an incredible photo.

[THEINCREDIBLEdork]

not beebs, probably a soccer player given the attire of the guy in the bkg

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by thekremlin

The only way the above picture could have been better was if you were wearing a shirt and tie and Bill was showing off his tats. But that is an incredible photo.

Oh my.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

True, but misleading. Reagan increased taxes - the country's GDP just grew that much more. He also compromised with the loyal opposition. If he were around today he wouldn't meet the GOP's "purity" ideology.

How the fuck is looking at the amount of tax as a percentage of GDP misleading?

Its significantly more misleading to talk about tax revenues in absolute dollar terms. The 70s and 80s saw some gnarley inflation and the 90s had some phenominal GDP growth (helped along by Reagan era legacies) so of course the government tax revenues are going to go up nominally.

To claim that looking at government tax receipts as a percentage of GDP is misleading is pure ignorance. Its the least misleading possible way to consider the issue!

[f3lix]

Give DH some time to respond, as he'll need to ask his professor.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally Posted by DJ FC

How the fuck is looking at the amount of tax as a percentage of GDP misleading?

the 90s had some phenominal GDP growth (helped along by Reagan era legacies)

What part of Reagan raising taxes don't you understand? He raised taxes. You can try to get around it all you want but the fact is he raised taxes. He raised taxes. He raised taxes. oooOooOoOoOh, it feels soooooooooooooo good - the Republican Jesus raised taxes and there's nothing his legions of screaming fanboys can do about it.

Also, c'mon. Clinton was president a full four years after Reagan! Not to mention Bush Sr had a crack at things before Clinton even got on the scene. Oh, and funny enough, Bush Sr also raised taxes. Quite frankly Reagan had an easy time raising GDP because he inherited an anemic economy from Carter, who I think we can all agree sucked.

[DJ FC]

If tax receipts as a percentage of GDP fell during his tenure, how did he raise taxes. Do tell.

In truth: he lowered taxes.

[DJ FC]

Tax receiptsDuring the Reagan administration, federal receipts grew at an average rate of 8.2% (2.5% attributed to higher Social Security receipts), and federal outlays grew at an annual rate of 7.1%.[28][29] According to a 1996 report of the Joint Economic Committee of the United States Congress, during Reagan's two terms, and through 1993, the top 10% of taxpayers paid an increased share of tax revenue to the Federal government, while the lowest 50% of taxpayers paid a reduced share of the tax revenue.[30]

Personal income tax revenues declined from 9.4% GDP in 1981 to 8.3% GDP in 1989, while payroll tax revenues increased from 6.0% GDP to 6.7% GDP during the same period.[31] This represented a more regressive tax regime, with more revenue derived from the flat payroll tax versus the progressive income tax.

According to a United States Department of the Treasury economic study,[32] the major tax bills enacted under Reagan, in the short term, increased total tax revenue and reduced the tax burden on the economy (~-1% of GDP). The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 resulted in a reduced tax burden on the economy (~-3% of GDP) but a decrease in total tax revenues (the largest tax cuts ever enacted).[33] while other tax bills had neutral or, in the case of the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, a (~+1% of GDP) increase in revenue as a share of GDP. It should be however noted that the study did not examine the longer-term impact of Reagan tax policy, including sunset clauses and "the long-run, fully-phased-in effect of the tax bills".[32] The fact that tax receipts as a percentage of GDP fell following the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 shows a decrease in tax burden as share of GDP. Total tax revenue from income tax receipts increased during this time. The economic growth and increase in GDP outpaced the increase in tax receipt revenue, resulting in a slightly reduced tax burden as a percentage of GDP for the economy.

Reaganomics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Ugly Bastard]

Ronald Reagan was such a fucking prick.

[Beebs]

He raised some taxes; but the overall tax rate on everything, measured by % of GDP that ended up as tax revenue, fell.

So yes he raised taxes, while lowering others to greater effect.

[DJ FC]

He lowered some. He raised others. He lowered more than he raised.

You can't say he raised taxes overall. You can say he lowered taxes overall.

[Repugnant Abomination]

This is all true, and it proves my point: Reagan was smart. He stuck to his guns, but compromised when he had to. He was a good leader but also pragmatic and willing to work with the loyal opposition. The current GOP is none of these things. Reagan would have a difficult time in the political climate right now but the GOP would never admit this. They've mystified Reagan to the point that their version of him doesn't match reality.

I know it's all just politics and both sides do it, but it pisses me off.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Repugnant Abomination

This is all true, and it proves my point:

He didn't raise taxes.

The point you made about him raising taxes is wrong. He lowered taxes. Taxes were lower when he left office than when he arrived.

[angry pancake]

Regan sucked and all of you are too young to remember.