So, What Do You Believe?

[fancymeghan]

i believe in god, but i don't think that he is a mean god who wants us to do only good. he sits up in heaven and laughs at the stupid shit we do whether it be stupid or hateful...he knows that we're learning and only in extreme cases does he help out...and when i say extreme i mean....so we don't fuck up mankind.

and if we do fuck up enough and he stops laughing at us...but then he'll realize the kick he will get from watching us burn in hell...and he starts laughing again.

god is funny like that.

the end.

[Pliedes]

Fruit, you offered a great opinion of what you think, but you really didn't give much reasoning for it other than "I think christians are insecure" and "Christians offer an answer to something you technically can't prove". So far, you're not building a very good case...

[drumkideric]

I agree with Pliedes, you don't have a very good case at all.

[BigDongedHoe]

The bottom line is you won't be able to ever scientifically prove any theory. A Christian can't sit here and 100% prove to you that is it truth however they know it's truth because of the faith they have.

I don't think it's fair of you at all to say that Christians are "insecure". Christians are some of the most secure people I know because of their faith that won't be broken no matter what anyone says. See you can sit here and say that you think for yourself but you have insecurities of what you believe in. You seem somewhat agnostic rather than atheist (the same point where I am...sorta). Christians don't have any insecurities when it comes to what they live for and what they believe in. That is why they are such secure people in that area. Granted they can sometimes hide behind that faith and make things black and white rather than see the grey in the world. Overall they're pretty good people.

[Pliedes]

Didn't any of you guys get the message? God is dead, Stabmaster killed him.

[Fruitacious B]

Originally posted by drumkideric:
I agree with Pliedes, you don't have a very good case at all.

Please, oh man of many words, explain why you think that. Pliedes has argued points like this on here before, you haven't.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Pliedes:
Fruit, you offered a great opinion of what you think, but you really didn't give much reasoning for it other than "I think christians are insecure" and "Christians offer an answer to something you technically can't prove". So far, you're not building a very good case...

But since to you and Fruit both it all boils down to your perceptions and opinions, then using the words "good" and "case" is pretty useless. Much like me using the word "useless". All the shit that's been said's obvious to everyone. People are pretty, a beautiful mixture of believing what makes one feel comfortable, believing what seems reasonable, realizing that one doesn't know, and allowing ideas to flow through one's talented head as not to stunt growth.

[ February 04, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Titan ]

[drumkideric]

You say Christians beleive in something you technically can't prove. Can you prove that there isn't a God? How can you look out at the vast universe, and see how complex everything is and think there isn't a God? There's no way that all this could of just happened on its own. Christianity is a faith system, so you can't scientificly prove it, but there are a lot of things you can't scientifitly prove. You can't see air or gravity, so how do you know it's there? You have faith that it's there. I have much much more to say but I don't want to type it so if you want to know more of what I think talk to me in person.

[Pliedes]

Originally posted by drumkideric:
Can you prove that there isn't a God?

True, but that brings us to a standstill, as neither side has really put forth a good argument.

Originally posted by drumkideric:
How can you look out at the vast universe, and see how complex everything is and think there isn't a God?

Btw, this is a horrible argument.

[drumkideric]

The Bible is also part of my proof there is a God. The Bible has many things that were going to happen and they did.

[Pliedes]

Then you'd better start another thread on the validity of the Bible, because that's a whole topic within itself, and premise you're going to have to cover first if it's part of your argument.

[Fruitacious B]

Well, my little drummer boy, the bible was also written by humans, and would also be open to human error. Take the multiple accounts of what Jesus said on the cross for example. So let's not get to debating the bible too much just yet.

Damn you Pliedes.

[ February 04, 2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Fruitacious B ]

[Pliedes]

Originally posted by Fruitacious B:
let's not get to debating the bible too much just yet.

As long as we do, as long as we do...

[drumkideric]

How can you talk about Christianity with out debating the Bible, since the Bible is the word of God. The Bible was written by followers of God. God spoke through these people and they wrote down his words. Jesus being crusified is even in our history books, so the 7 things Jesus said on the cross were written down in history.

[Pliedes]

Ok, now you're starting to sound outlandish. All I'm saying is that if you're going to use the Bible as part of your argument, then you (obviously) going to need to convince some people that it's not just a book of fairy tales.

[drumkideric]

Here are some websites that prove that the Bible is true, and not just a fairy tale.

http://www.christiankeys.ca/ProofOfTheBible.html

http://www.cornerstonechurchonline.c...dies/Proof.htm

http://www.tenth.org/qbox/qb_020526.htm

[Ugly Bastard]

Do you believe everything you read on the internet? I would hope not.

I'm not saying those websites and your beliefs are false. But they certainly don't "prove" a damn thing.

-Ugly Bastard

[drumkideric]

let's see here...those sites listed parts of the Bible that you can refer to, to prove that they are true

[Pliedes]

Most people don't read links, you post the important shit, then we'll go from there.

[drumkideric]

If you really cared about this topic then you would read the links, but I'll post one of them....

Proof the Bible is True!

How can we know Bible is true? Through fulfilled Bible prophecy. Because God controls the future, He can also predict the future. The prophecies listed below were made hundreds of years before Jesus was born. Each prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus in the first century.

Prophecy
Date prophesied
Fulfillment

Born of a virgin (Isa. 7:14) 792-722 B.C
Matt. 1:18-25

To be the Son of God (Ps. 2:7) 1,000 B.C.
Matt. 3:17

Descendent of Abraham (Gen. 22:12) 1, 872 B.C.
Matt. 1:1

Descendent of Isaac (Gen. 21:12) 1,892 B.C.
Matt. 1:2, Luke 3:34

Descendent of Jacob (Num. 24:17) 1,452 B.C.
Matt. 1:2, Luke 3:34

From Tribe of Judah (Gen. 49:10) 1,689 B.C.
Matt. 1:2, Luke 3:33

From Family of Jesse (Isa. 11:1) 740 B.C.
Matt. 1:6, Luke 3:32

From House of David (Jer. 23:5) 589 B.C.
Matt. 1:1, Luke 3:31

Born in Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2) 722 B.C.
Matt. 2:1

Herod kills children (Jer. 31:15) 627-585 B.C.
Matt. 2:16-18

To be called Immanuel (Isa. 7:14) 792-722 B.C.
Matt. 1:23

Spirit of the Lord upon Him(Isa 61:1) 792-722 B.C.
Luke 4:16-21

Preceded by a messenger (Mal. 3:1) 450-400 B.C.
Matt. 11:10

Called out of Egypt (Hosea 11:1) 710 B.C.
Matt. 2:15

Would do miracles (Isa. 35.5-6) 792-722 B.C.
Matt. 11:2-5

Rides in Jerusalem on donkey (Zech. 9:9) 520 B.C.
Matt. 21:5-9

Betrayed by a friend (Ps. 41:9) 1,000 B.C.
Matt. 10:4

Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zech 11:12) 520 B.C.
Matt. 26:15

Money thrown in God's house (Zech. 11:13) 520 B.C.
Matt. 27:5

Price given for Potter's field (Zech. 11:13) 520 B.C.
Matt. 27:7

Forsaken by disciples (Zech. 13:7) 520 B.C.
Matt. 26:31

Wounded, bruised, scourged (Isa. 53:5) 792-722 B.C.
Matt. 27:26, Luke 22:63

Hands and feet pierced (Ps. 22:16) 1,000 B.C.
John 20:25

Garments divided (Ps. 22:18) 1,000 B.C.
John 19:23-24

Lots cast for clothing (Ps. 22:18) 1,000 B.C.
John 19:24

Given vinegar to drink (Ps. 69:21) 1,000 B.C.
Matt. 27:34

"Why hast Thou forsaken me?" (Ps. 22:1) 1,000 B.C.
Matt. 27:46

"Into Thy hand I commit my spirit" (Ps. 31:5) 1,000 B.C.
Luke 23:46

Messiah's side pierced (Zech. 12:10) 520 B.C.
John 19:34, 37

Messiah's bones not broken (Ps. 34:20) 1,000 B.C.
John 19:32-36

Buried in rich man's tomb (Isa. 53:9) 740 B.C.
Matt. 27:57-60

Three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17) 760 B.C.
Matt. 12:40

Resurrected from dead (Ps. 16:10, 30:3) 1,000 B.C.
Acts 2:31, 13:33-35

Ascends into heaven (Ps. 68:18) 1,000 B.C.
Acts 1:9, Eph. 4:7-10

Messiah is light to the Gentiles (Isa. 49:6, 42:6) 740 B.C.
Luke 2:32, Acts 13:47, 26:23


Jesus fulfilled about 300 prophecies in the Bible. Peter Stone in Science Speaks calculated the probability of one man fulfilling 48 prophecies to be:

1 in 10,000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000,

000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000,

000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000,

000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000,

000, 000, 000

[Pliedes]

Ok, sorry bud, but if you can't first verify the historical texts, then the fact that they correspond with something that happened means nil.

(btw, i'm playing devil's advocate here. you're just going about this all wrong)

[drumkideric]

The historical text if you read them, predict future events, such as the coming of Jesus.....so that means they are true

I'm not a theologian, I'm just trying my best to present my point

[Pliedes]

I'm saying, prove that they actually are historical texts first.

[victim]

Originally posted by drumkideric:
The historical text if you read them, predict future events, such as the coming of Jesus.....so that means they are true

I'm not a theologian, I'm just trying my best to present my point

With circular logic? Simply because the Bible predicted events that occured later in the Bible in no way validates them. Your argument is essentially:

Christianity is true because the Bible says so.

Think about how silly that sounds.

[drumkideric]

The events occured later in histoy. The coming of Jesus is even in the high schools histoy books. This was predicted earlier in the Bible. The Bible was recorded by eyewitnesses, that is proven in the links i posted above.