2012 Election

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

What better way to spark that innovation than through infusing our country with industry and business by providing cheap, abundant energy.

lol wat? I believe the phrase goes "Necessity breeds innovation". By creating an environment where everyone is comfortable as fuck burning fossil fuels like there is no tomorrow is certainly not breeding innovation, especially with all the money that goes into that industry.

[f3lix]

I refuse to vote for the "lesser of two evils" when there is a candidate I like.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

First world problem, bro.

Who gives a fuck about that shit right now. We're sitting on billions and billions of gallons of oil. We have high unemployment, massive trade deficit, and massive debt, so don't you think getting our country's shit together is the first step towards a technological breakthrough in energy production? What better way to spark that innovation than through infusing our country with industry and business by providing cheap, abundant energy.

That's kinda like saying the fat man should start his diet at McDonald's.

[thekremlin]

This isn't the most interesting chart, in terms of the content, but the interactive feature is a lot of fun. You can drag the circles around the diagram (why make this functionality? I have no clue.) I enjoy using the "Obama" circle to knock the "God" circle right off the page.
At the Republican Convention, the Words Being Used - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

[angry pancake]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

But his policies are good. Don't put words in my mouth you motherfucking cocksucker.

Romney said his first act as president would be to start fucking drilling in Alaska, Canada, and some of the oil-rich states in the continental US. This would drastically reduce the cost of energy and give a massive boost to the US economy, especially considering that these oil reserves are thought to be some of the largest on the planet.

I doubt it would reduce the cost of energy. Energy prices went nuts when they were deregulated with help from Phil Gramm and Richard Luger with the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in 2000. Now oil and energy is traded and speculated. Supply and demand can be artificially controlled. Supply and demand isn't the problem here.

FWIW, I couldn't give a fuck less if they drilled in Alaska. Doesn't mean shit to me.

[Saint DH]

I don't understand what you mean.

Supply is controlled by the OPEC nations-an oligopoly that openly acts in collusion. What mechanism is there controlling demand? The US's demand curve is nearly vertical, within relevant limits, which means that we will demand the same quantity no matter what the price.

Futures are typically used as a hedge against the price of the underlying. Yes people do speculate on these, but the price of the underlying influences the price of the derivative, not vice-versa.

Here's a little picture I drew to help explain this.

The point at the very top left of the graph is a point where price is very high, and not many people can afford it. As the price decreases, and more people are able to afford it, the quantity demanded jumps up very quickly. Eventually, when the price falls to a reasonable level, demand becomes more inelastic, and price changes have less of an effect on quantity demanded. This continues until demand gets almost perfectly inelastic, at the point where we'd consume all the oil that could be produced. This occurs at the point on the far bottom right of the graph.

When OPEC members collude to restrict the quantity of oil supplied, the supply curve becomes vertical at the point where the marginal cost of production equals the marginal revenue from sales. It is at this point where the OPEC nations' profits are maximized. Through this collusion, they are able to earn economic profits, which is the area shaded red.

If there were no collusion the supply curve would extend along the marginal cost line to where it intersects the demand curve, and that would be the market price. If the US started drilling for oil in Alaska and shit, the supply curve would move to S' and price and quantity would be at the point where S' meets the D curve.

My cost line is probably a bit off. It's actually probably much flatter than that. Nevertheless, I think this illustrates my point well enough.

Obviously, I have some extra time on my hands tonight.

[angry pancake]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

I don't understand what you mean.

I'm probably never going to be able to explain how oil prices aren’t always connected to supply and demand, but instead driven instead by speculators who's goal it is to maximize profit on a commodity. A lot of it is provided in this 262 page pdf: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...j2O9xnZriGlKTA

Supply and demand does exist. But events like the OPEC oil embargo and the first gulf war didn't really make that big of a jump in prices. The gulf war sent prices from .99 to $1.09 and gas was back down under a buck again shortly thereafter.

If you don't understand how Wall Street getting involved into the mix after the "Enron Loophole," I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.

And I'm pissed at Obama for not fixing this as he campaigned on like a motherfucker in 2008. But the CFMA of 2000 was a bi-partisan thing. I'm pointing the finger at all of those fuckers and Clinton for signing it.

[DJ FC]

AP lives in the dreamland where somebody more powerful than you runs everything.

Oil is scarce.

OPEC makes it more so.

Every energy trader understands that supply and demand rule the market, yet you insist that the traders themselves somehow dictate the price you pay and not the market place? Take off your tin foil hat dude.

Your point about the Gulf war is meaningless. Prices ROSE 10%. That's a lot dude. And did you ever consider the fact that invading a hostile nation might actually reduce the uncertainty (and therefore increase the supply) of oil deliveries? It's a lot more complicated than "Hey we went to war with an oil nation and gas only went up 10 cents).

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

I saw a great ad comparing the economic results of Bain Capital and Solyndra. I'm on this shitty iPad and can't seem to find it on YouTube, but I thought the ad really shows the difference in these two candidates.

I love when people bring up Solyndra, because its just a fucking soundbite. Do you know anything about manufacturing? Do you pay any attention to the economic policies of China? Do you understand what a commodity is? The consequences of manufacturing commodities in a free-trade world?

[Saint DH]

I was alright with your post until you asked if I understood what a commodity is, even though I'm fairly confident I know more about the all of the aforementioned subjects than you do.

This will be the last time that I'm talked down to by a bunch of twenty-somethings who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

[f3lix]

OST?

[thekremlin]

I DRAW CHARTS

[angry pancake]

Edit: never mind. I just don't even give a shit it.

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

This will be the last time that I'm talked down to by a bunch of twenty-somethings who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Thank God I'm in my thirties.

[ninjaface]

The Five Reasons Why Romney/Ryan Must be Defeated in 2012 ? And Why Conservatives Should Hope They Are. | Kurt Eichenwald

[Ugly Bastard]

That was a fantastic article. It's a party of people who are either evil or stupid.

[Saint DH]

b. Obama robbed Medicare of more than $700 billion. This is one of those lies that works because explaining the truth is complicated. The obvious implication – and in fact, the frequent statement by the GOPers – is that Obama took money from seniors to pay for Obamacare, and in the process put Medicare at risk. It. Is. A. Lie. As has been stressed again and again – without effect on the liars – there is no benefit cut for any beneficiary. The $700 billion is not a cut – it is the value of savings. By the GOP argument, people who buy shoes on sale are cutting back on their shoe purchases – they aren’t, they’re just using their money wisely. So is Obama: the money comes from providers who are accepting the decrease because the payments will be offset by the influx of new patients that will come from Obamacare. Other savings come from eliminating overpayments to Medicare Advantage.

This is bullshit.

It's also where I quit reading.

[Ugly Bastard]

I'm surprised you made it that far.

[DJ FC]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

That was a fantastic article. It's a party of people who are either evil or stupid.

Plus a very good chunk who are optimistic about Mankind and hard working.

[thekremlin]

And some who are evil AND stupid.

[Ugly Bastard]

Being a Republican is indefensible at this point.

[thekremlin]

The (R) after all those politicians' names stands for "Rapist".

[f3lix]

Originally Posted by Ugly Bastard

Being a Republican is indefensible at this point.

After what they did to the Elected delegates who favored Ron Paul, I have no interest in ever aiding their party again. Fuck them.

[Saint DH]

Justin Timberlake - Cry Me A River - YouTube

Justin Timberlake - Cry Me A River - YouTube

[DDTempest]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

This is bullshit.

It's also where I quit reading.

source? You sound like an intelligent person with a reasonable argument ... let's hear it.