Who is going to hell? An argument for the Bible, Religion and God.

[Beebs]

Originally posted by jbonham:
there has been archeological evidence of the history of the new testament and of the old testament. However, photographic? Do you know that the camera was not around to prove of Julius Caesar?

And one more thing: Faith is trusting in something to be true when you don't have all the evidence...I trust my Fiancee to be loyal to me...I trust my parents to defend me...I trust in God to Guide me to the "RIGHT" decisions...SO everyone who is in disagreement with God, I am okay with that. So be okay with the fact that I don't have all the evidence. So post in a way to learn more instead of trying to prove oneself right.

What the others are saying is that the "miracles" are the things that lack evidence in the bible, and those things are what make the bible different than most history books, but you pretty much sum up the point very well at the end. It is faith, and you don't need proof to have faith, so I think everybody is more or less in agreement here.

[Repugnant Abomination]

I am going to hell.

[Mr. Blonde]

if faith = an ignorant,irrational belief without any proof that is taken only because it is so ingrained into their skulls by their parents or other societal implements, rather than based on common sense and science,things that have been proven "real" (if real is really real that is because who knows who to say what is real when real is really happening when people stop being polite and start being real...i'm a philosopher too!) then yes. We're all in agreement.

`drunk

[ September 24, 2005, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Blonde ]

[Heaven Can Wait]

Only thing Moses parted was Jesus's ass.

Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
-Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

I really cant see why christianity is still going, sure a thousand or so years ago when we lived in shit holes and theres a huge church that you cant begin to comprehend how it was built and wouldn't mind to have the perfect life and live forever, Now its just 'My mommy says its right, so there!'
Christians believe that the odds of the scientific creaton of man would be extremely low, somewhere along the lines of a monkey typing the bible out pressing random keys, whats wrong about it is that everytime Choco hit the 'right' key, it stuck and moved on, and progress is made.
Nothing can be created or destroyed, wheres this room for our souls to leave the universe?
As for the Julius Caesar thing, I've heard this many times, there's more proof of Jesus than Julius right? where?

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by Mr. Blonde:
if faith = an ignorant,irrational belief without any proof that is taken only because it is so ingrained into their skulls by their parents or other societal implements, rather than based on common sense and science,things that have been proven "real" (if real is really real that is because who knows who to say what is real when real is really happening when people stop being polite and start being real...i'm a philosopher too!) then yes. We're all in agreement.

`drunk

that's me in 7th grade...

[Mr. Blonde]

You got drunk in the 7th grade?

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by Mr. Blonde:
You got drunk in the 7th grade?

no, maybe i should have removed the last word from yer post when i quoted. didn't think that would cause confusion.

[Beebs]

Originally posted by Mr. Blonde:
if faith = an ignorant,irrational belief without any proof that is taken only because it is so ingrained into their skulls by their parents or other societal implements, rather than based on common sense and science,things that have been proven "real" (if real is really real that is because who knows who to say what is real when real is really happening when people stop being polite and start being real...i'm a philosopher too!) then yes. We're all in agreement.

`drunk

You still can't really argue against faith, so you're just gonna wear yourself out punching air if you try.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Fuck all of you guys for ignoring my flaming homosexual picture.

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by AcTivE:
alright..some

"you" can't be in two places at once

everything comes from something else (..lets argue.)

shit happens regardless of any wants/needs/desires--a situation will happen

everything finds it's place in relation to something else

"love" is the connection between two things

there is nothing greater than "love", because everything is connected to something else

probably some flaws in the language...but I feel confident I can argue logic behind any of those if you find them disagreeable.

any other arguments with this? I'm pretty sure I can find something in the Bible from this.

[Repugnant Abomination]

[Mr. Blonde]

Yeah that pretty much disproves all that is holy right there.

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by bloodyfart:

what if i looked at one line in the bible which is where jesus says that the kingdom of god lies in our own hearts. from that line, which does exist, i could say that god is not some far off entity but i am god. furthermore, since what i consider to be "I" is constantly changing, then god is constantly changing. accordingly, since this is the case, then what god wants is constantly changing along with him, so i should not act in any way, shape, or form which is consistant with the bible because the god of back then is not the god of now, and what he wants may have changed. thus, i go out and fuck other men cause this could be what god wants now.

Originally posted by bloodyfart:
why didnt you attack my logic?

...also after any arguments, i think I'll be at a position of being able to effectively "attack" this argument

at this moment..i can actually say that I probably agree with you ..at least partly. i do believe i'm a piece of God--in his image (so would look like him) --if you found what "yourself" is.

reading it over..i think i do.

[ September 25, 2005, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: AcTivE ]

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by Repugnant Abomination:

just fyi repug--if u ever get there, that is why my vote is no.

Your a good poster, but stop with the shit. I asked at the beginning, respect it. Please.

[Repugnant Abomination]

Oh Jesus Christ (ha!)you need to lighten up Active. I've been respectful of this thread for 13 pages, but your "arguments" are borderline ridiculous in my, and several other people's opinions. It gets old and repetitive after a while. Besides if you can say something along the lines of "if you believe in something with all your heart and are 100% wrong about it then that makes you 100% correct about it" then I think I can use Underwaters photo to prove there is no God.

And as for your "no" vote for me...Well, I can totally see how me occasionaly messing with someone for a laugh would make you say no. I mean wtf am I thinking!? Either way it's your loss.

[ September 25, 2005, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Repugnant Abomination ]

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by Repugnant Abomination:
Oh Jesus Christ (ha!)you need to lighten up Active. I've been respectful of this thread for 13 pages, but your "arguments" are borderline ridiculous in my, and several other people's opinions. It gets old and repetitive after a while. Besides if you can say something along the lines of "if you believe in something with all your heart and are 100% wrong about it then that makes you 100% correct about it" then I think I can use Underwaters photo to prove there is no God.

And as for your "no" vote for me...Well, I can totally see how me occasionaly messing with someone for a laugh would make you say no. I mean wtf am I thinking!? Either way it's your loss.

If you aren't interested in the debate--don't post to be an attention whore. I want somebody that is interested in following and debating ...to be able to follow what is going on. Jibberish that does not relate to any of the other posts causes confusion.

But I hope this goes on for many more pages...it takes a while to get your ideas across to someone else--and actually have it mean the same thing that it does to you

[ September 25, 2005, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: AcTivE ]

[Repugnant Abomination]

Originally posted by AcTivE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AcTivE:
alright..some

"you" can't be in two places at once

everything comes from something else (..lets argue.)

shit happens regardless of any wants/needs/desires--a situation will happen

everything finds it's place in relation to something else

"love" is the connection between two things

there is nothing greater than "love", because everything is connected to something else

probably some flaws in the language...but I feel confident I can argue logic behind any of those if you find them disagreeable.

any other arguments with this? I'm pretty sure I can find something in the Bible from this.</font>[/quote]
I'll start from the top and work my way down.
"You can't be in two places at once":
Well assuming we're talking about physically and not "spiritually" or "mentally" then yes, we can't be in two places at once. But I've got a sneaky suspicion you're going to play the spiritual card...In which case I may counter with the mythical fairy of Atlantis card.

"Everything comes from something else"
I addressed this earlier but I'll do so again. This very quote is a direct contradiction to the belief in God. Yes, everything comes from something else, but not God, right? He was just there. You make the rules but they only apply to what you want them to. How could God always just have been? I'll tell you right now nobody who believe in a God knows that answer, it's all just theory and speculation...Because they don't want to apply the rules to it.

"shit happens regardless of any wants/needs/desires--a situation will happen"
I would argue with this. Shit does happen, yes, but largely because of wants needs and desires. Any action you take sets something into motion. For every action there is a reaction.
Now you may be on the end of someone elses action, and that shit happens to you for apparently no reason, but you still make the situation what you want it to be once it's crashed into your world.

"everything finds it's place in relation to something else"
I can agree with this. I also find it funny because this sorta cuts God outta the loop doesn't it?

""love" is the connection between two things

there is nothing greater than "love", because everything is connected to something else"
I can agree with this.

I have a few questions for you Active...Where did God come from? How do you explaining the very beginning of existance for the first thing that ever existed? I'd like to hear your opinion....Maybe you know something Stephen Hawkings and Einstein didn't.
How do you explain dinosaurs and their complete absence in the bible? How do you explain in the bible how it says the world is only a few thousand years old? And how do you explain people living for hundreds of years based on the bible? How do you explain primitive cave art?

Thanks.

[ September 25, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Repugnant Abomination ]

[AcTivE]

it will be a bit...but i will respond.

[Repugnant Abomination]

C'mon man it's been 2 weeks what's the hold up? Let's keep the great debate going.

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by Repugnant Abomination:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AcTivE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AcTivE:
alright..some

"you" can't be in two places at once

everything comes from something else (..lets argue.)

shit happens regardless of any wants/needs/desires--a situation will happen

everything finds it's place in relation to something else

"love" is the connection between two things

there is nothing greater than "love", because everything is connected to something else

probably some flaws in the language...but I feel confident I can argue logic behind any of those if you find them disagreeable.

any other arguments with this? I'm pretty sure I can find something in the Bible from this.</font>[/quote]
I'll start from the top and work my way down.
"You can't be in two places at once":
Well assuming we're talking about physically and not "spiritually" or "mentally" then yes, we can't be in two places at once. But I've got a sneaky suspicion you're going to play the spiritual card...In which case I may counter with the mythical fairy of Atlantis card.

"Everything comes from something else"
I addressed this earlier but I'll do so again. This very quote is a direct contradiction to the belief in God. Yes, everything comes from something else, but not God, right? He was just there. You make the rules but they only apply to what you want them to. How could God always just have been? I'll tell you right now nobody who believe in a God knows that answer, it's all just theory and speculation...Because they don't want to apply the rules to it.

"shit happens regardless of any wants/needs/desires--a situation will happen"
I would argue with this. Shit does happen, yes, but largely because of wants needs and desires. Any action you take sets something into motion. For every action there is a reaction.
Now you may be on the end of someone elses action, and that shit happens to you for apparently no reason, but you still make the situation what you want it to be once it's crashed into your world.

"everything finds it's place in relation to something else"
I can agree with this. I also find it funny because this sorta cuts God outta the loop doesn't it?

""love" is the connection between two things

there is nothing greater than "love", because everything is connected to something else"
I can agree with this.

I have a few questions for you Active...Where did God come from? How do you explaining the very beginning of existance for the first thing that ever existed? I'd like to hear your opinion....Maybe you know something Stephen Hawkings and Einstein didn't.
How do you explain dinosaurs and their complete absence in the bible? How do you explain in the bible how it says the world is only a few thousand years old? And how do you explain people living for hundreds of years based on the bible? How do you explain primitive cave art?

Thanks.</font>[/quote]
I'll start from the top and work my way down.

"Well assuming we're talking about physically and not "spiritually" or "mentally" then yes, we can't be in two places at once. But I've got a sneaky suspicion you're going to play the spiritual card...In which case I may counter with the mythical fairy of Atlantis card."

I am going to play the spiritual card.

"I addressed this earlier but I'll do so again. This very quote is a direct contradiction to the belief in God. Yes, everything comes from something else, but not God, right? He was just there. You make the rules but they only apply to what you want them to. How could God always just have been? I'll tell you right now nobody who believe in a God knows that answer, it's all just theory and speculation...Because they don't want to apply the rules to it."

You can define the thing that is ...i guess, in between something. The fact that you are able to follow this setence, understand "this" word from another word, then get confused because the sentence doesn't make any sense--

shows that there is something behind all the words--that give it power, and..bring it into reality. THIS word right here, means nothing unless there is something next to it--to show where it stands. Are you following me at all?

i'll say more on it..but want to know if you just understood that as jibberish.

"I would argue with this. Shit does happen, yes, but largely because of wants needs and desires. Any action you take sets something into motion. For every action there is a reaction.
Now you may be on the end of someone elses action, and that shit happens to you for apparently no reason, but you still make the situation what you want it to be once it's crashed into your world."

I agree 100%.

"I can agree with this. I also find it funny because this sorta cuts God outta the loop doesn't it?"

Nope. Just shows that "God" is living. He's in everything.

"Where did God come from? How do you explaining the very beginning of existance for the first thing that ever existed? I'd like to hear your opinion....Maybe you know something Stephen Hawkings and Einstein didn't. "

I believe God is love...my theory on him is that he probably wanted to experience appreciation. Keep in mind though..I'm describing it in terms that I can understand it. I can't tell you how he got here or we did...because you can't express ideas of non existence--with words of existence. I'm already here--so there is no way anyone can ever say how they got here. Always think they can figure out why though....

"How do you explain dinosaurs and their complete absence in the bible? How do you explain in the bible how it says the world is only a few thousand years old? And how do you explain people living for hundreds of years based on the bible? How do you explain primitive cave art? "

Going to be honest..not very Bible studying person. I haven't read through whole thing at all. I'm also not a historian. I also don't care about any of those questions you asked--because they have absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about--which is spiritual. Does it matter if they didn't record about dinosaurs? I don't think it does. Does it really fucking matter if there were dinosaurs? Is that going to change your direction in life? It does not matter..

This thread has been going in about 1000 different ways, all of them as vague as the original claim. I suggest we do one of two things:

Make a list of difinitive points to discuss.

or

Drop the issue altogether, because if there was an airtight argument for God, then this issue wouldn't even be discussed to begin with.

But first, I would like to suggest a line of thought to try out.

Imagine emptiness. Not just an empty glass, but devoid of air or any other matter.

Now imagine nothingness. One step beyond. Try to comprehend eternal nothingness. Take this seriously. You will find that the more you comprehend (or ironically, the less) "nothingness," the more robust an understanding of it you will have. At some point in time you may experience an "Ah ha!" moment. No space, no time, no existence. No logic. No distances. Not even "blackness." Not even emptiness, nothingness; non-existence.

Is it not a possibility that instead of this life we live which is based upon existence, that no form of existence ever existed?

[ October 09, 2005, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: DJ FC ]

[AcTivE]

Originally posted by DJ FC:
This thread has been going in about 1000 different ways, all of them as vague as the original claim. I suggest we do one of two things:

Make a list of difinitive points to discuss.

or

Drop the issue altogether, because if there was an airtight argument for God, then this issue wouldn't even be discussed to begin with.

But first, I would like to suggest a line of thought to try out.

Imagine emptiness. Not just an empty glass, but devoid of air or any other matter.

Now imagine nothingness. One step beyond. Try to comprehend eternal nothingness. Take this seriously. You will find that the more you comprehend (or ironically, the less) "nothingness," the more robust an understanding of it you will have. At some point in time you may experience an "Ah ha!" moment. No space, no time, no existence. No logic. No distances. Not even "blackness." Not even emptiness, nothingness; non-existence.

Is it not a possibility that instead of this life we live which is based upon existence, that no form of existence ever existed?

Right now I'm making an attempt to find a divine statement in the Bible. That seems to be what people want. Have a feeling once I do though not going to make any difference.

the way I imagine God..to begin with (before things)..is basically by doing what you suggested.

[Lucy Fur]

the funny thing about the bible.... besides being an excellent work of fiction.... is that every one of us can read the same passage and come away with a different meaning.

give me absolute proof god exists and i will change my opinion of there being no heaven or hell.

[ninjaface]

[Mr. Blonde]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA